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Old Jan 12, 2012, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by areis81 View Post
twonights, it's just 8 pages this thread. read it and you will understand better the problem. no one still has done some hands on testing, it has NO gps for staying in one position without control and DOES NOT support gimbal stabilization. who knows in the future, but for now it's like that. you better go check the dji wookong or MK as suggested by others for your purpose. oh, and yes, you better practice before thinking about using these things as a job, they dfon't fly by themselves and they need some technical skills that you can achieve only with practice. good luck with your work
Thanks Areis.... To be honest I was not planning to pilot them myself. I have some staff that they are familiar with flying these things and work as operators for me. I'm just a business owner and due to my extensive sources I have a lot of offer for aerial filming. I have read some threads and seems like all the troubleshooting issues are due to either firmware bugs or a bad setup by people. but then again that is the problem with most of multi-rotor setup since they are constantly either updating or coming up with new versions and it makes it very complicated for people like me to choose a right system. I have came across some products like Xaircraft V8, Bumblebee, Turbo Ace, Droidworx CX4 and RCeye 650. They are pretty much in the same size categories and they all can carry a GoPro setup weight. They are all in the same price category except CX4. Honestly look of the unit is important to me and I do not want some DIY looking flyer. I know it would be logical to buy one unit as a test platform and if indeed was answer to my need then purchase more units but clock is not on my side. I figured if I'm planing for simple fly and not above 50m high with some reliable gyro and stabilizer I might be able to get away with units in this price range and instead of spending money on a hefty unit I can plan on having 5 units so incase if anything happened to the flyers that require repair and parts change I have RTF system handy to continue filming and repair the unit later. I also wanted to set-up one unit for training and practice usage. This way I can handle simple task projects with no worries in mind if the flyer crashes. I have a good contact with the maker of these flyers except the Droidworx I can get them in wholesale prices for under $400. I have great resources in China and I usually go to china in regular bases for my other business matters in DSLR market. I wish I had the time to have more experience in this field but I'm too busy for other activities I have. I would appreciate any inputs and suggestions and I can actually help you guys to get these type of stuff from the manufacturers at wholesale pricing. That's the only way I can return a favor! So anyone with a high knowledge on these systems are welcome. I have planned to design a mini parachute for the flyers so incase anything happened within your eye viewing range you can push a button and have your flying robot to have a soft crash landing. The Parachute kit weights is about 300gr. and I think this product will have a lot of demand in the market. I truly appreciate all your inputs.

Cheers,
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by twonights_stand View Post
Thanks Areis.... To be honest I was not planning to pilot them myself. I have some staff that they are familiar with flying these things and work as operators for me. I'm just a business owner and due to my extensive sources I have a lot of offer for aerial filming. I have read some threads and seems like all the troubleshooting issues are due to either firmware bugs or a bad setup by people. but then again that is the problem with most of multi-rotor setup since they are constantly either updating or coming up with new versions and it makes it very complicated for people like me to choose a right system. I have came across some products like Xaircraft V8, Bumblebee, Turbo Ace, Droidworx CX4 and RCeye 650. They are pretty much in the same size categories and they all can carry a GoPro setup weight. They are all in the same price category except CX4. Honestly look of the unit is important to me and I do not want some DIY looking flyer. I know it would be logical to buy one unit as a test platform and if indeed was answer to my need then purchase more units but clock is not on my side. I figured if I'm planing for simple fly and not above 50m high with some reliable gyro and stabilizer I might be able to get away with units in this price range and instead of spending money on a hefty unit I can plan on having 5 units so incase if anything happened to the flyers that require repair and parts change I have RTF system handy to continue filming and repair the unit later. I also wanted to set-up one unit for training and practice usage. This way I can handle simple task projects with no worries in mind if the flyer crashes. I have a good contact with the maker of these flyers except the Droidworx I can get them in wholesale prices for under $400. I have great resources in China and I usually go to china in regular bases for my other business matters in DSLR market. I wish I had the time to have more experience in this field but I'm too busy for other activities I have. I would appreciate any inputs and suggestions and I can actually help you guys to get these type of stuff from the manufacturers at wholesale pricing. That's the only way I can return a favor! So anyone with a high knowledge on these systems are welcome. I have planned to design a mini parachute for the flyers so incase anything happened within your eye viewing range you can push a button and have your flying robot to have a soft crash landing. The Parachute kit weights is about 300gr. and I think this product will have a lot of demand in the market. I truly appreciate all your inputs.

Cheers,
so this is just a marketing scheme?
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 09:02 AM
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Not at all... I'm an industrial designer and I design and invent a lot of different products. Due to my interest in Videography I have gotten into this field and I'm planning to influence this market (design wise not technical).
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 11:00 AM
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My recommendation is to go to your sources in China and get their recommendation. They can best advise you as to what they can supply and the capabilities of the systems will be. You will not be happy with the BB for your stated purposes. WKM, Data Link, Waypoint on the DJI side is what you are looking for. ATB has a great A/P platform RTF for less than $4k. It is a heavy lift hexa and capable of lifting most DSLR's.
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 11:27 AM
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Ok, that sheds another light on what's needed.
Your initial post sounded like you where trying to get a foot into this hobby.

If you have skilled pilots at hand then go for a Wookong-M or a MikroKopter.
The BB will not suit your needs. Like Ed mentioned you should go straight for a RTF/ARF Hexa or Okto lifter.

Otherwise you'll spend unnecessary money on a hobby item.

ARF/RTF Quad kits with a WKM and proven parts start at ~1400USD:
http://www.foxtechfpv.com/wkm650v221...esc-p-371.html
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by kinderkram View Post
Ok, that sheds another light on what's needed.
Your initial post sounded like you where trying to get a foot into this hobby.

If you have skilled pilots at hand then go for a Wookong-M or a MikroKopter.
The BB will not suit your needs. Like Ed mentioned you should go straight for a RTF/ARF Hexa or Okto lifter.

Otherwise you'll spend unnecessary money on a hobby item.

ARF/RTF Quad kits with a WKM and proven parts start at ~1400USD:
http://www.foxtechfpv.com/wkm650v221...esc-p-371.html

Yes, I guess I was miss-understood. If I wanted a hobby then UFO MX400 was a better choice since it has everything you need with very stable and reliable FC and GPS ready which is coming up next month. for $390 RTF version with Aluminum Case and DEVO8s Radio Controller offering Telemetry and GPS guided control. The problem is even though it is a fairly big flyer with stylish look but it's material is at hobby level. Smart creature though!

One another thing in my mind is that I'm trying to have my birds look a little bit more at High-end Factory made products instead of a DIY look of Hexa, Octo flyers. You know what I'm talking about? Units like CX4 with some add ons and a good paint job sticker will make abetter presentation and more expensive to your client's eye and it makes your production services to look more expensive to operate and too expensive to purchase therefore you can easily add 20-30% more income from your services offered by you.

By this era, aerial filming businesses will grow like mushrooms and that is a fact. Prices will go lower since a lot of manufacturers are getting involved. Even better and more experienceD RC factories that are into palm sized micro copters, now making innovative and more like ARF-RTF version Quads!

We will benefit from competition and we should always support different products and leave comments and suggestions for the maker so they can have chances to make a better product for you without any other reason to dislike or like a company product. One of them finally give you what you looking for with a reasonable price and performance.

They're almost there...

Cheers,
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Old Jan 12, 2012, 03:53 PM
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Never seen a framer with a gold hammer.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 01:48 AM
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Well I received my Bumblebee and airframes today, Two days after I placed the order!!!. The FC didn't come with any documentation or software though, I see what I can find on the net. The DJI 450 is really nice, I can't wait to get'r done.
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 03:21 AM
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Which site do you get your Bumblebee?GLB? they will on holiday for 13 days or more,and handle the order after they back,i doublt if i should have more one
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 03:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Gadget-Geek View Post
Well I received my Bumblebee and airframes today, Two days after I placed the order!!!. The FC didn't come with any documentation or software though, I see what I can find on the net. The DJI 450 is really nice, I can't wait to get'r done.
Uh... My bumblebee from glb came with a mini-cd with software and drivers and all the cables, USB cable, LED, male/male rx cables, the works. Where did you get your junk from?
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 04:04 AM
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Originally Posted by robone View Post
He meant that you should only buy 1 BumbleBee (BB) and test it and get a feel for it and see if it works for you, and not buy 5 of them and then find it does not suit your needs.

Rob
better yet he meant just get ONE and then see if you can even fly the thing yet alone film from it lol
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 04:47 AM
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so lets recap

20 minute flights

adding extra weight for shrouds (at least 100grams)

adding extra weight with cameras (at least 100grams with NOTHING! ADD 200GRAM at least if you want PTmount)

adding extra weight with parachute (300grams lol)

on a frame that weighs """Weight:950gram(without battery)"""


using no maths at all i will tell you straight THATS IMPOSSIBLE! please go make yourself coffee and wake the f*** up!

now lets use a bit of maths to show you how stupid the idea is

950+100+100+200+300 = 1650grams!

we aint got no motor on there yet? an you aint gonna lift no 1.6kg with a 20gram motor! so your gonna NEED motors that will weight AT LEAST 80grams each! so

80x4 = 320grams MINIMUM!!

320+1650 = 1970 (YEAR I WAS BORN)

think thats your flying weight minimum?? dont be silly! we haven't got the wire to wire it all up yet! add 100grams in fact at the weight you are currently at? add 200grams for wire coz your powertrain is gonna be verrrrrry juicy!!

1970+200 = 2170grams

oh hold on you forgot the esc's didnt ya? ummmm looking at all that weight maybe 50 to 80 amp esc's?? add 200grams!

2370grams!!!! that is the weight of your idea vs my maths! who gonna win? well lets see

did you know that if you could accurately drop a penny 3.5grams from a mile up it would go straight through a human VERTICALLY?? ie enter topof head and exit at furry bits? instant death!

did you know that if you could accurately drop a 1kg hammer from 50meters up it would seriously mangulate a human VERTICALLY?? ie anything that hammer hits is gonna need fixing! or of the thing it hits is the top of a human head you have a 50% of instant death again?

so now that you know that you want to build a 2.3kg quad and fly it at 50meters height interesting

does this mean that you wish to MAKE SURE you outright kill a person when your quad falls out of the sky coz you used 80a esc's when you should of used 120a?

and what weight would a lipo have to be to deliver 320amps constant?

and what weight would a lipo have to be to deliver 480amps constant when you figure out (possibly after the 1st crash) that the esc's and lipo were not up to the job so you had to go bigger?

last thought yea i make bodge frames but complete frame WITH all electronics installed and ready to fly is 1050grams with 3000mah lipo

but the homemade quad that flies for 15mins weighs 590grams with the SAME 3000mah lipo! finished ya coffee yet?

the only way you are EVER going to get a 20min flight will be if YOU make the quad YOURSELF using the correct maths NOT imagination
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 08:30 AM
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Dear n3m1s1s it seem like you had a tough childhood. I'm glad my post was a chance for you to force out all your grudges. It's good to hear that you have a good math and I wish your IQ/EQ was as good as your math. I have mentioned that I'm not a technical person in this field and any person with your impressive knowledge and academic education and this great personality of yours would at least pay attention to the post first and then jump in for such celebration!
I have started my post by the phrase: "Please help me" and " I'm not a technical guy" so I'm just asking some one to hand me the right information which it was provided from you in such manner! a lot medium size quads like RCeye/Xaircraft/Bumblebee can pick a 500gr load easily with a 15 minutes flight time. try it once and you will see they do. Parachute was just an idea and obviously works for smaller quads but it's not my main concern now. All the medium size quads have all the components/motors/battery/etc. so no need to calculate cause it has been proven that they can all carry a 500g payload. A GoPro with its mount will not be more than 500g and even a parrot toy will pick up a GoPro and elevates to 25 meter. I have tried it and if you ever doubt about it I can upload a test video for your reference. I doubt if my intention of flying quads like Xaircarft/RCeye/Bumblebee with a 500g payload and a higher capacity batteries for extended run time is way out of their league. it is ok if we all make mistake. especially when you are not familiar with surrounding. I have spoken with reps at Xaircraft and RCeye and they all confirm that their quads can be modify to have a 500g payload and 15 minutes of flying time so maybe asking for 20 was too much but did not require all this sarcasm. I just finished the coffee you have offered me!
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by twonights_stand View Post
Dear n3m1s1s it seem like you had a tough childhood. I'm glad my post was a chance for you to force out all your grudges. It's good to hear that you have a good math and I wish your IQ/EQ was as good as your math. I have mentioned that I'm not a technical person in this field and any person with your impressive knowledge and academic education and this great personality of yours would at least pay attention to the post first and then jump in for such celebration!
I have started my post by the phrase: "Please help me" and " I'm not a technical guy" so I'm just asking some one to hand me the right information which it was provided from you in such manner! a lot medium size quads like RCeye/Xaircraft/Bumblebee can pick a 500gr load easily with a 15 minutes flight time. try it once and you will see they do. Parachute was just an idea and obviously works for smaller quads but it's not my main concern now. All the medium size quads have all the components/motors/battery/etc. so no need to calculate cause it has been proven that they can all carry a 500g payload. A GoPro with its mount will not be more than 500g and even a parrot toy will pick up a GoPro and elevates to 25 meter. I have tried it and if you ever doubt about it I can upload a test video for your reference. I doubt if my intention of flying quads like Xaircarft/RCeye/Bumblebee with a 500g payload and a higher capacity batteries for extended run time is way out of their league. it is ok if we all make mistake. especially when you are not familiar with surrounding. I have spoken with reps at Xaircraft and RCeye and they all confirm that their quads can be modify to have a 500g payload and 15 minutes of flying time so maybe asking for 20 was too much but did not require all this sarcasm. I just finished the coffee you have offered me!
ok maybe i did sound rude and for that i will apologize here and now but in my defense will say this

if you would of started asking for a 10 min flight time i wouldn't of said ANY of the post above

and as much as my responce may have sounded terse to you and possibly everyone else too ( i dont know) i didnt write it to take the mickey out of you! on the contrary that post was the quickest route to enlightenment and an explanation of why i was saying what i was saying

you may put me on your hate list but i bet in 6 months time you will still understand why i say impossible to your 1st idea

now what i wanted you to get from the last post was the following

PLEASE STAY AS LIGHT AS POSSIBLE

so weight you do not need to carry will be the parachute (saved weight of gopro and mount right there)

the shrouds (they will be great for hovering but bad in wind, forward flight, decent, and you save weight by not using them)

check the specs of the rtf version

- Model:Bumblebee
- Motor:HL3512 brushless motor*4
- ESC:20A high speed ESC*4
- Flight controller:ST55 flight controller
- 500mm shaft distance
- Can against 4 grade wind
- Weight:1250gram(without battery)

so if we add 300gram lipo we are flying at 1550grams props and motors are pre matched and it will probably fly great at that weight but add the gopro and mount and you could easily be at 1.8kg

10 mins at 1.8kg might be possible

20 mins at the same weight sorry NO something has to change

lower kv motors with bigger props?

same setup but use 4s esc and lipos and hope the motors will be fine?

take everything you do not NEED off the quad! dome? landing gear? maybe swap the flight controller for that black one that has esc built in? save a lot of wire weight that way

now very rough guess as my math seemed to offend but i think if you could get the quad down to 900grams with your camera and lipo? 20mins might well be possible but really strip that quad right back to the very essentials

thats what i meant
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Old Jan 13, 2012, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by twonights_stand View Post
Yes, I guess I was miss-understood. If I wanted a hobby then UFO MX400 was a better choice since it has everything you need with very stable and reliable FC and GPS ready which is coming up next month. for $390 RTF version with Aluminum Case and DEVO8s Radio Controller offering Telemetry and GPS guided control. The problem is even though it is a fairly big flyer with stylish look but it's material is at hobby level. Smart creature though!

One another thing in my mind is that I'm trying to have my birds look a little bit more at High-end Factory made products instead of a DIY look of Hexa, Octo flyers. You know what I'm talking about? Units like CX4 with some add ons and a good paint job sticker will make abetter presentation and more expensive to your client's eye and it makes your production services to look more expensive to operate and too expensive to purchase therefore you can easily add 20-30% more income from your services offered by you.

By this era, aerial filming businesses will grow like mushrooms and that is a fact. Prices will go lower since a lot of manufacturers are getting involved. Even better and more experienceD RC factories that are into palm sized micro copters, now making innovative and more like ARF-RTF version Quads!

We will benefit from competition and we should always support different products and leave comments and suggestions for the maker so they can have chances to make a better product for you without any other reason to dislike or like a company product. One of them finally give you what you looking for with a reasonable price and performance.

They're almost there...

Cheers,

I know what you are saying about the unit looking professional, but you know what? Non of my clients give a rat's ass what my unit looks like. They only care how it performs, and if it can get the shot. Ever seen a camera crane. Not the most pretty thing I've ever seen but it does it's job and at the end of the day, that's all that matters. So the advice the guys are giving you to look at things like DJI WKM is good advice. It will fly whatever you put it on and get the shot for you.

- Jeff
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