SMALL - espritmodel.com SMALL - Telemetry SMALL - Radio
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Jan 16, 2012, 01:03 PM
Registered User
Wargassm's Avatar
United States, CA, Lake Forest
Joined Nov 2010
565 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepperpete View Post
Get video! And a tripod. :P Can you do a vertical pass? Would love to see what she can do.
Vertical flight is sweet, flew mine on a 6s 4900ma rhino 25c and it had authority!!! ill get it on video this Saturday
Wargassm is offline Find More Posts by Wargassm
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Jan 16, 2012, 01:19 PM
Registered User
Wargassm's Avatar
United States, CA, Lake Forest
Joined Nov 2010
565 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxthrottle View Post
With the SU-34 we couldn't help the ballooningmuch because ithas a fixed stab and elevator. This one to prevent ballooning likely means you set the stab closer to 13mm which is fighting the thrust line.

Since you're in the air you could report on what I asked V8 to go vertical hands off to see which direction the tube pusher, canopy or belly.
But you have to neutral your surfaces first to confirm its not the surfaces causing the pull vs the thrust line.

Take off I take was sweet! # of meters to ROG? No pop up though you may if you're ballooning.

Cheers.
no real popup, i set the CG @ factory 150mm.

on vertical it didnt go one way or the other, @ the top i rolled it over into a flat spin. It flat spin's really well, better than the mig and the tail likes to sit down. Just be carefull when you do sit the tail down or you may have problems recovering it.

ROG id say was around 30 feet, it could have gone up quicker but i wanted to get good ground speed .
Wargassm is offline Find More Posts by Wargassm
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16, 2012, 01:35 PM
Registered User
Wargassm's Avatar
United States, CA, Lake Forest
Joined Nov 2010
565 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxthrottle View Post
If you are ask other than what's in the manual, I need to know your linkage setup and flying skills/preference and style to guess but there are two pilots now who can answer what they did.
ok,
Linkage, farthest most hole on servo arm, 2nd hole from bottom on the control surface horn.

preferences: slightly nose heavy at least by a few grams ( 5-8 ). Radio is airtronics 10SD, with 8 channel receiver. TV config: rudder always on, elevator on a three position sw ( #2 ), elvator and alieron on position 3 of sw.

style? i like em fast and twitchy. I use 0 expo, alierons were @ 100% throw, elevators @ 100% throw. no dual rates used.

pilot skill? I quess I'm average.
Wargassm is offline Find More Posts by Wargassm
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16, 2012, 02:00 PM
To drive or to fly......BOTH!!
FresnoJay's Avatar
USA, CA, Clovis
Joined Apr 2007
6,202 Posts
Wargassm, Sounds like you fly like me. I do not use any expo on anything. My SU-34 is setup just like your 35, 100% everything. Man I cant wait to get this sucker.

Jason
FresnoJay is offline Find More Posts by FresnoJay
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16, 2012, 02:34 PM
Registered User
Wargassm's Avatar
United States, CA, Lake Forest
Joined Nov 2010
565 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by FresnoJay View Post
Wargassm, Sounds like you fly like me. I do not use any expo on anything. My SU-34 is setup just like your 35, 100% everything. Man I cant wait to get this sucker.

Jason
my buddy has the su-34 and the only difference is speed. the 35 is allot faster. Also you have the same ballooning when you land. now im not 100% sure if tis due to slowing down causing the nose to balloon up or not. I'm concerend about the nose wheel retract. after thinking about it it does make sense for it to balloon. look under the nose area back to the retract. see its slightly bevelled out and provides lifting surface. just like the SR-71 when it lands it balloons up some. The SU-34 its due to fixed canards on the front, same for the su-47. Thoughts?

V8, by chance did you have any issues with stock nose wheel. when you retract and its almost all the way down ( 90% ) do you hear it grinding?

i may just replace the mechanism with a Eflight retract dont kow yet. Hopefully BH and FW will warranty it.
Wargassm is offline Find More Posts by Wargassm
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16, 2012, 03:07 PM
You are a "go" for reentry
Maxthrottle's Avatar
High Orbit.....
Joined Jun 2009
6,551 Posts
That was actually for genghiskt. But still a very good report.

V8 not up or down because you do this in the vertical. Level flight gravity is at work so your wing foil and flight control surfaces can be out of trim causing off centre effects. So the best way to trim is power off ina dive to see what the surfaces naturally do, and once they are all trimmed true, you take your model vertical, you can pick up speed first from level, but full power once in the vertical, hands off, no stick input, surfaces trimmed, if it pulls to the belly or canopy in the vertical it tells you that the thrust line is off. Since these are 360 TV's you also watch for roll etc to see if not just the thust line is a problem but also roll or Yaw. As it slows to 1:1 which ever way it pushes over to is also telling.
So not up or down. A good thrustline will ascend poker straight up into the sky only drifting by prevailing winds.
Maxthrottle is online now Find More Posts by Maxthrottle
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Freewing 90mm F-16C
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16, 2012, 03:23 PM
Registered User
hklagges's Avatar
Munich
Joined Dec 2008
1,158 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ViperVJG73 View Post
Too badly R2F wrote first can deliver this bird in February.
Grrr... just saw it, too !
hklagges is offline Find More Posts by hklagges
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16, 2012, 03:48 PM
Should've, Would've, Could've
v8truckin's Avatar
United States, CA
Joined Dec 2010
6,764 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargassm View Post
my buddy has the su-34 and the only difference is speed. the 35 is allot faster. Also you have the same ballooning when you land. now im not 100% sure if tis due to slowing down causing the nose to balloon up or not. I'm concerend about the nose wheel retract. after thinking about it it does make sense for it to balloon. look under the nose area back to the retract. see its slightly bevelled out and provides lifting surface. just like the SR-71 when it lands it balloons up some. The SU-34 its due to fixed canards on the front, same for the su-47. Thoughts?

V8, by chance did you have any issues with stock nose wheel. when you retract and its almost all the way down ( 90% ) do you hear it grinding?

i may just replace the mechanism with a Eflight retract dont kow yet. Hopefully BH and FW will warranty it.
war

yes I hear a grind, but to me its sounds more as if its locking... Quick grind then click. Haven't heard that in any of the other freewings. I haven't any problems with it though. My Su doesn't balloon up like you say, could be our setups, but our cg is the same. Where in the tray is your battery? Mines about 1/2" from the front of the tray.
v8truckin is online now Find More Posts by v8truckin
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16, 2012, 03:56 PM
Should've, Would've, Could've
v8truckin's Avatar
United States, CA
Joined Dec 2010
6,764 Posts
Max,
Same thing on my vertical it went straight up until it stalled. No roll or pitch. I'll post a vertical vid in a bit.
v8truckin is online now Find More Posts by v8truckin
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16, 2012, 04:12 PM
Flying Hazard
SU-4ever's Avatar
Spain
Joined May 2006
2,947 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by hklagges View Post
Grrr... just saw it, too !

Next time I'll be going RCCastle.

I feel really upset.
The very reason I decided to go R2F is, it actually comes from inside EU so there shouldn't be charges applied, nor delays due to customs.

But they're appearing to be inneffective. They where the first to announce aircraft and the last to get it.
That's not a good business!

SU-4ever is online now Find More Posts by SU-4ever
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16, 2012, 04:23 PM
You are a "go" for reentry
Maxthrottle's Avatar
High Orbit.....
Joined Jun 2009
6,551 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8truckin View Post
Max,
Same thing on my vertical it went straight up until it stalled. No roll or pitch. I'll post a vertical vid in a bit.
Thanks. Looking forward to the Youtube vid Oh and you have your stab set at what, cg is still 150mm? Just confirming a few things.
Maxthrottle is online now Find More Posts by Maxthrottle
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Freewing 90mm F-16C
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16, 2012, 04:29 PM
Should've, Would've, Could've
v8truckin's Avatar
United States, CA
Joined Dec 2010
6,764 Posts
stabs are @ 11.5mm, I believe factory recommends 10-13mm...? Yes cg is still 150mm.

2nd kit I ordered is in SF customs, HK to Cali in 2 buisness days!!! Fast! Should be delivered tmrw.
v8truckin is online now Find More Posts by v8truckin
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16, 2012, 04:53 PM
Registered User
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Nov 2006
11,519 Posts
I missed out on where you ordered that from V8 (?).
Is there a list if suppliers (I will ignore BH and R2F), and I am in Australia so HK seems the best source for shipping.
PeterVRC is offline Find More Posts by PeterVRC
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Skyzone Goggles - Button Shield
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16, 2012, 05:07 PM
Registered User
Wargassm's Avatar
United States, CA, Lake Forest
Joined Nov 2010
565 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8truckin View Post
war

yes I hear a grind, but to me its sounds more as if its locking... Quick grind then click. Haven't heard that in any of the other freewings. I haven't any problems with it though. My Su doesn't balloon up like you say, could be our setups, but our cg is the same. Where in the tray is your battery? Mines about 1/2" from the front of the tray.
this batt its all the way back.
Wargassm is offline Find More Posts by Wargassm
Reply With Quote
Old Jan 16, 2012, 05:10 PM
You are a "go" for reentry
Maxthrottle's Avatar
High Orbit.....
Joined Jun 2009
6,551 Posts
For your consideration

Possible cause for your ballooning;
Think of your little balsa glider kits for ages 6 and up...
Metal weight in the nose, and a stab in the tail at 15* or so. You toss it with all your might and it does this big circle over head and comes back and almost takes your eye out; big fun. Then as it bleeds off its speed, the stab pitches it up till it loses speed, the metal weight takes over, it stalls, starts to pick up speed again making the stab effective again and keeps doing this till it reaches the ground.
If you were a little inventor and tried adding a rocket motor on it, you would need the motor to pitch the nose down some or it will just do the big circles till it runs out of steam. So to counter the stab, the thrust angle is snow plowing against it to keep a straight line. So it rockets along till the motor cuts out removing the pitch down force and what happens... the stab sends it skyward.
This is the SU-34 thread all over again and I dropped out of explaining this because many focused on the cheat hole others decreased the pitch thrust line and added more down pitch in the elevator or added down input in the canard. What is a waist is having the surfaces plowing against each other.

I confirmed this and can now share how. My brother used to work as a sensor tech at a wind tunnel and while visiting him to do a tour, having discussed my new model, he asked me to bring it for them to put it on the stand. They were setting up and array so they had to do a run up anyways but they asked that I don't mention the company. As soon as the staff look at the 34 they immediately said the stab is set for an aggressive glide slop and asked if it falls flat to the ground. I also asked about the effect of cheats. They confirmed they do have this effect but it is so minor that it is easily blanked by pitch input. They added if flight dynamics worked like that you'd see intakes on the tops of everything but there isn't because the moment any pitch up is added the air fowls and chokes any intake because of the changed direction and pressure changes adding that its well documented with aircraft that have tail mounted engines on nacelles. The wing at certain AoA fowl the intake. Anyways....We set it up and it was all exciting confirming what I described above right up until it slipped off the stands and got damaged bouncing on the ground till it reached the pick up mesh. I fixed it and added full flying stabs and it flew great till I damaged it again at which time the F-35 and Euro came out so it got shelved.

They showed me a lot about flight dynamics etc which is one reason why I guess I try to relate solutions in a similar manor.
hobby models are for the masses. Anyone can get one so they are set up to go into this basic stable glide. But its not optimal to other things that it is capable of doing. So for ballooning you may just need to take a little pitch out of the stab. You do this already as you set up to land because to come down out of your glide you pitch down.

The Canard deal was discussed then too and the odd thing is the SU35 and 34 have the same characteristics but only one has a canard. So then process of elimination, would it be the canards? Just like the little glider with a fixed stab the stabilator on these are setting your wings AoA and the thrust line is set to counter increasing lift developed by your wing because that's what down thrust is for, more thrust, more speed, more speed, the greater the lift generated at the wing. But with aggressive stab settings you have an increased lift effect and thus the thrust angle is countering both the wing lift as thrust increased and the stabs pitch up effect.

Try it or do the research but just to give everyone an alternate perspective.
Maxthrottle is online now Find More Posts by Maxthrottle
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Freewing 90mm F-16C
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion LX F-35 Vs Freewing F-35 Mmarshall Foamy EDFs 17 Jul 09, 2014 07:49 AM
Found SU-34 Freewing lw777pilot Aircraft - Electric - Jets (FS/W) 1 Dec 15, 2013 02:25 PM
New Product Brand New SU-35! 70x2,TV and made by Freewing!Update:Worldwide Availability neversommer Foamy EDFs 593 Jan 09, 2012 10:02 PM
For Sale Freewing SU-34 stock battery - Brand New JGuilty13 Aircraft - Electric - Batteries & Chargers (FS/W) 0 Nov 29, 2011 03:01 PM
For Sale Freewing SU-34 stock battery JGuilty13 Aircraft - Electric - Jets (FS/W) 0 Nov 29, 2011 11:29 AM