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Old Feb 02, 2013, 10:42 PM
Lori, hey, you're home early
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Originally Posted by davemilw07 View Post
Great, what color scheme did you select????

And yes, I'm still waiting for the Martians to arrive!!!!! Betty and Barney Hill have already met them......................
The grey/blue/white. It's a spectacular looking model. I need to paint the basement/dungeon/model shop next weekend then I can start on the Su.

Ha,ha, ha. I had to Google Betty and Barney Hill. The Martians landed at the end of our back driveway. There's a high school there now.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by IntheTubeDeep View Post
Su35 is higher quality, especially the wing design-- your 35 won't lose its wing in flight! I have MiG29 also really cool plane but I think the Su is superior-- how are you gonna hold yourself til March to fly!?
it's going to be hard but i have a few i still have to get use to in the mean time. love the pilot mod. if i didn't know what to expect in the video it would have been a little scary.
question: are the throws pretty much the same as the mig or are they totally different? and what throws are you using? i used the recommended throws for my mig and euro fighter and both maidens scared the out of me. luckily i got them down safe and readjusted the throws. looking forward to reading more good info from you and the rest of the pilots. happy flying.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 09:00 AM
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Boy did I have "fun" building all my new fan testing stuff for most of the weekend!
Sort of fun... but a lot of time to spend/waste!
I just got to finish balancing up the Su fans - the CS10's in Freewing housing, which the CS12 rotor can't be used in. And seeing the CS12 housing is longer and has different mounts, I am thinking over whether I will do that or not.
I probably will....

I am not sure how much I needed the 'high tech sprung Dynamic balancer' unit I made up.... I guess it works.... but maybe something much simpler would have been just as good.
Android Phone balancing... awesome results! And so easy too.

I don't know what real reference there is to compare for people if they used the same system or App, because after some testing I found that running the fans at "1000uS throttel level" (LOL) was a good RPM area to use for balancing, and then running out higher RPM was still totally fine across the range. So it seems that getting ir all right at the lower RPM area is fine.
I got the fans down to "7m/s/s and 3m/s/s" max vibration (at that lowish RPM) and that is silky smooth. The 3m/s/s is hardly notable versus the 7m/s/s but I guess the lower the better!!
I really need to do more testing across RPM ranges to see what total 'process' of balancing gives the optimal result. But even with this minimal effort they came out fantastic.

When I took them out they were at 13m/s/s areas each. And that was not 'silky smooth'! Though it wasn't too bad - for a reference I will call them "average" - but one had a reverberation at a certain low end RPM area.
I didn't get to put these re-balanced ones back in to test them in-plane today.

I would say that the total time of Static Balance and then Dynamic Balance (which is just a 'clock' manner) was under 30mins each.... which included distractions of waiting while a TV show I was watching had my attention quite often! It was easy and quick!

No pics for now, as the camera/phone was on the Balancer! (Tho I do have others, but forgot.).
I will do pics and a balancing video in the near future.....
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 09:34 AM
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i also spent time balancing my fans using the sensor insider pro. i found i needed to balance the cone also as the fan vibrated after putting them back on. i do notice some harmonics at certain rpms. is this normal? if not, how do i get rid of it?
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted by beason65 View Post
it's going to be hard but i have a few i still have to get use to in the mean time. love the pilot mod. if i didn't know what to expect in the video it would have been a little scary.
question: are the throws pretty much the same as the mig or are they totally different? and what throws are you using? i used the recommended throws for my mig and euro fighter and both maidens scared the out of me. luckily i got them down safe and readjusted the throws. looking forward to reading more good info from you and the rest of the pilots. happy flying.
Thanks-- that mod is really cool! If memory serves me, the throws on the Su were more than the MiG-- my stock grey camo had huge ELE servo horns, it had TONS of throw, my stock servo fried on preflight test so I replaced both ELE servos, and used smaller horns. I think I have the DR switch set at 80% and 100%, no need IMO for more especially with the 360TV, plus the MiG came Delta wing set up, the Su regular wing. Anyway hopefully more will respond to this question, but I 'd say the Su has more throw for sure, I'm making a 'check list ' vid for the preflight on Su maybe I finish today
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by beason65 View Post
i also spent time balancing my fans using the sensor insider pro. i found i needed to balance the cone also as the fan vibrated after putting them back on. i do notice some harmonics at certain rpms. is this normal? if not, how do i get rid of it?
Btw if you watched my recent post on testing my fans you'll see that I had to replace both spinners and shaft adapters, had a lot of vibration , now its all good!
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 11:49 AM
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Is that opinion from the CS load? Its the only one they list as 8S. The rest are higher voltage ranges. I wonder if a lighter fan like a wemo or as Geng demo'd on the factory fan. Wemo can take the rpm and your not trying to keep it in the redline. Just get the best mAh for Watts to thrust. But then who know how accurate their numbers are since all flavours all weigh 170g???? Do you know any attempts with that motor?
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Originally Posted by PeterVRC View Post
2040kv on 8S..... a combination of fried motor, and exploding CS10/12's !! LOL
(which would occur first???)
That would be very high power. It would have to go well into the 50A's.... 2040kv is already in the 1200w to 1300w range on 6S. It could peak 1800w+ on 8S ! And overly high RPM then too.
1840kv would be the go for high power, no more really.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 01:14 PM
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Does anyone know if the stock Freewing servos in the Su-35 can be operated on 6 volts???
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 01:43 PM
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I think some are using em on 6v.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 05:49 PM
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Oh yes, on CS10/12 (I think I mentioned... them exploding etc)
Lower blade counts can of course do more RPM and thus higher KV is ok. So 200kv to 300kv more is probably the sort of number higher they can use, for the same motor power result as a CS10/12. But for any given fan you really need to TEST a motor (or someone have tested one) to truly know what it will do, and how appropriate it will be to run and last.

Those motors all weigh the 'same' as they are all the same motor just with different windings. Lower KV use more windings of thinner gauge, thus Amps limits go down.
The voltage number, I suspect, they arrive at by working out they are a "1300w" motor, and can only handle X Amps, thus to get 1300w they apply the nearest Volts/Cells number (just reverse engineer the P=VI formula) so as KV goes up (heavier gauge wire) the Amps go up, but Volts come down.
I am not actually sure that volts limit is a valid thing.... they are likely to be totally fine at higher Volts still too. (eg ones that say 11v could do 22v even). Very often motors will do far more Volts, totally fine, than the specs list.

The 1300w number they arrive at because of its mass (metal) and thus cooling, plus bearings/shaft etc construction. And even that would be very 'grey', and thus why people can burst run them out to 2000w etc. (some amount a lot higher than specs, if short term - shorter term than the wires go up in smoke! hehe). You really take that number with a grain of salt.... a good motor can do it, or better, whilst a cheap 'poor' motor probably won't even do what they say and survive (unless they did state low numbers - and you don't truly know that until tested).
And even the cooling you get - eg from an alloy housing - will alter what it can really do and survive long term at.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 10:13 PM
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Thanks for the insights Pete. At least I'm in the ball park. Would have to agree since an ARC 2858-1 is already about to blow at 6S not from more voltage, but just turning more rpm.

The weights on the other hand ??? They'd have to extrude there own windings to fill the exact volume available between the armature to never increase the weight with the wings. Usually too, the price goes up because better conductive alloys are needed with the thinner gauge and longer windings or greater number of poles. But these all stay 4 poles going from 3S to 14S all in the same sized can and all weighing exactly 176g????
Its not a big deal but if they actually do stay that weight, your back to the greater risk of failure with varying fan loads and higher voltages, again the reason why finding 70mm above 6S.
Other even expensive motor weights change significantly as they change their windings.... Who knows. I'll have to give them a whirl! against HETs.

I was surprised that they even have 14S motors in 28mm can. I didn't think anyone made such to realistically last unless in a specialized low load conditions like the factory fan.
Either way thanks.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 10:25 PM
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Does anyone know if the stock Freewing servos in the Su-35 can be operated on 6 volts???
Yes with 8 different FW models, I've run them all at 6V. I've tested during setup with LiFe 6.6V batteries, but would not chance flying with that unless stepped down with a BEC.
The only thing I keep an eye on is the sequencer. If I had one that seemed to act up, I replaced it with a 3rd party sequencer.
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Old Feb 03, 2013, 11:43 PM
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Well they could use a different armature in them with all the rest being the same - if that is even necessary. And probably just state one 'approx' weight that they tend to be around.
But also, less windings of heavier gauge will probably average out to much the same area and weight across the whole KV range anyway.
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 12:01 AM
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Oh yes, on CS10/12 (I think I mentioned... them exploding etc)
Lower blade counts can of course do more RPM and thus higher KV is ok. So 200kv to 300kv more is probably the sort of number higher they can use, for the same motor power result as a CS10/12. But for any given fan you really need to TEST a motor (or someone have tested one) to truly know what it will do, and how appropriate it will be to run and last.

Those motors all weigh the 'same' as they are all the same motor just with different windings. Lower KV use more windings of thinner gauge, thus Amps limits go down.
The voltage number, I suspect, they arrive at by working out they are a "1300w" motor, and can only handle X Amps, thus to get 1300w they apply the nearest Volts/Cells number (just reverse engineer the P=VI formula) so as KV goes up (heavier gauge wire) the Amps go up, but Volts come down.
I am not actually sure that volts limit is a valid thing.... they are likely to be totally fine at higher Volts still too. (eg ones that say 11v could do 22v even). Very often motors will do far more Volts, totally fine, than the specs list.

The 1300w number they arrive at because of its mass (metal) and thus cooling, plus bearings/shaft etc construction. And even that would be very 'grey', and thus why people can burst run them out to 2000w etc. (some amount a lot higher than specs, if short term - shorter term than the wires go up in smoke! hehe). You really take that number with a grain of salt.... a good motor can do it, or better, whilst a cheap 'poor' motor probably won't even do what they say and survive (unless they did state low numbers - and you don't truly know that until tested).
And even the cooling you get - eg from an alloy housing - will alter what it can really do and survive long term at.
Based on what I just read does that mean should my 4s parallel experiment not perform up to my expectations () I could just use a 6s batt and will work perfectly? (CS12B/ARC 28581s/CP110A)
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Old Feb 04, 2013, 12:27 AM
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Based on what I just read does that mean should my 4s parallel experiment not perform up to my expectations () I could just use a 6s batt and will work perfectly? (CS12B/ARC 28581s/CP110A)
The 2858-1 is a 3180kv motor. They give fair warning on 5S let alone 6S with Wemo and Vortex fans. Much lighter loading.
You go ahead and try CS70/12 at 6S, just get it on video, and wear protection ..... all over

The 2040 KV I posted for 8S is in the ball park as such a setup efficiently, in theory would allow short peak performance, with reasonable amp demand, but would work even better rolling back the throttle to produce still excellent thrust, in theory, for less amps. When you go down such a road, flying with throttle cut back to avoid peak motor burn out, you have to get a higher rated ESC.

The others that Pete recommended, they are spec'd for higher voltage 9-11S, but as suggested for a CS, run it at 8S potentially around the same or less amp demand. Even if the fan load were higher, you have more head room.
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