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Old Dec 25, 2012, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by SU-4ever View Post
Well, actually Peter has some point here, if you take a close look on the navalized version of the flanker, the Su-33, they actually pitch up with canards, though IT SPOILS LIFT....
My answer is in connection with Pete's attempts to remove jumping by rotating without using the stabilators. His last comment is trying to positive deflect the canards enough to rotate without the stabs. That's not going to happen unless he got up to speed to melt the wheel down.

The 33 was one of the earliest in the program, originally looking more like the original original SU-27, (distance cousin to the SU-27 we know). Exactly as you describe the Canards briefly work positive pitch with the tailerons solely to assist rotation off the 300m deck because the air speed is so low and the wing is not stalled. So if they are going to add drag, better to have them assisting rotation than being ineffective for lift at very low speeds.

The full use of the canards were not included apparently to the SU-34. My original information thought that they took the same programming from the 37 and 33 and applied it to the 34. They initially did with the 35 till they dropped the canards all together but they don't go beyond trim or full neg on the 34. I haven't flown the thing so the info is only second hand but it would make sense why doing th same routines some did behave a certain way while others didn't. But then they also don't throw the SU-34 around the same way they do the others.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 09:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Maxthrottle View Post
Ah... Ya! Hey Rich. Wondered when you would stop by again for a visit.
I believe that that is what some of us have been describing. Actually I never asked you directly but you would likely know. The LEVCON or variable LERX on the PakFa T-50, is there a settled designation given them? It debated because they extend further than a LEVCON normally would.
Hope you've had a good fill of Turkey!
I've sent an email to Igor. I'll have all the information you could ever want post haste. LOL. I know the ins and outs of it/them, but I'll get the first hand info and post it here. I do know that the LE flaps work in conjunction with the LERCS (as the Russians call them) and they can ALL be moved independently of each other. so for example, the port side can move to 20 degrees while the starboard side can move to 5 degrees for a certain maneuver. also, the LERCS and the LE flaps can move independently of each other, in that they can all be at different angles to each other and is all about AOA and roll angle.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 09:28 PM
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pic

a pic of this in action.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 09:36 PM
Should've, Would've, Could've
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Mmm... PakFa T50, I want one!
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 09:59 PM
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me too. I'm gonna be cutting one very shortly. just finishing up the templates for a hotwired, twin 90mm.
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 10:15 PM
Should've, Would've, Could've
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Mmmm... PakFa T50 with TWIN 90mm, so sick. You start a thread or least post pics n this thread?
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Old Dec 25, 2012, 10:51 PM
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Originally Posted by LuvEvolution7 View Post
me too. I'm gonna be cutting one very shortly. just finishing up the templates for a hotwired, twin 90mm.
Well you were there the first time when I asked for a twin 70mm.... So if while your cutting your massive 90, can I send so foam over for a 70mm
I still have one of my Mitzu's T-50 unassembled so that I could recut a larger version closer to scale to house the landing gear. It's become a some day project.

Anyways back to the canardless SU-35BM.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 01:03 AM
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yeah, life got in the way of most of my projects, but now I'm back at it. there is no build thread YET, but there will be when I really get going on it.

I've got some info on the active LEX control surfaces..........................

they are more similar to the slats of the main wing rather than Su-30’s canards. these surfaces can rotate downwards around their rear edge. similar to wing slats, they are rotated to assist control in high angles of attack (close to 90deg.) by reducing the exposed area to the direction of flight and also preserving lift by turning the influx over the fuselage (in a similar manner where slats have the same effect to the wing). these rotary parts shade the main engine inlets but there are auxiliary inlets at the sidewalls of the inlet tunnels where air can flow in avoiding restrictions. also of interest, is how they relate to the CARET inlet.
CARET inlet was not innovatively used by PAK FA, but nevertheless, the basic principle of CARET inlet is wave-riding. that's why we see that they transversely set the rectangular section of CARET inlet. the longer the horizontal wedged edge, the more lift will be generated locally.this is the first time we have seen a movable LERX used on a true jetfighter,. this was also to be utilized on the Indian HAL LCA Tejas, but that was merely a plan. this isn't only a movable LERX, as far as an extension of the LE flaps. it's also a vortex aileron, not merely a flap. it is capable to up-deflect, so it contains canard function too. we say it is a movable LERX because the angle of sweep is really large enough to be a LERX. A large angle of swept edge causes the vortex to roll from lower surface to the upper surface, however, when being slight AoA, this swept angle is too large to keep the pressure under the LERX so giving it a movable leading edge allows this vortex rolling to take place. if you watch video carefully, the LERX is deflecting slightly upwards when PAK FA rotates, so the effect of this aerodynamic process is actually canard-like. at high speeds, the movable LERX is a easy way to regulate the swept angle of shock wave produced by edge of CARET inlet whereas F-22 does this by use of a bypass door.

so, in a nutshell, the CARET inlets of the air intakes are useful for “wave riding”, generating increased lift for the airframe. This allows lower RCS and increased airflow. With the long length of its horizontal wedged edge (of the inlet) additionally helps lift. the active LERX surfaces take advantage of this.

Large, moveable Leading Edge Root Extensions (LERX) over the inlets are highly innovative and perhaps plays a role in making the PAK FA super-maneuverable. It is not a flap-like structure but perhaps more like an aileron and behaves in someways perhaps like a canard.

This is an interesting innovation and also provides a solution for the PAK FA in managing air-flow over the wing and onto the slanted stabilizers, solving problems of a twin-tailed delta configuration.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 01:19 AM
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Ah so in a nut shell just kidding. That's consistent with my sources as well; though aileron in structure not differentially to induce roll. I was told they are synchronously drive.
I got to go to bed.... Got some shopping to do in the AM.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 04:06 AM
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HobbyKing have these in stock (Aus warehouse) at the moment. Is there any difference between buying one of these from HK compared to the one you can buy from BananaHobby?

thanks
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 04:09 AM
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Exact same ones.....
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 09:58 AM
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What is a CARET inlet?

I can't find a proper description anywhere!

Thanks in advance.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Maxthrottle View Post
Ah so in a nut shell just kidding. That's consistent with my sources as well; though aileron in structure not differentially to induce roll. I was told they are synchronously drive.
I got to go to bed.... Got some shopping to do in the AM.
they do work independently of each other though. check out the pic above..............the port side LE flap and the LEX control surface are much less deflected than the starboard surfaces. roll is more about lift production or loss, than anything else. if you wanna roll right, you produce more lift on the left side than the right. that's the basis on how an aileron works, so in essence, the control surface is acting like an aileron than an LE flap, because they can both work independently, like the ailerons do.
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Old Dec 26, 2012, 11:41 AM
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a caret is a wedge shape. it's also the curser in Windows. in this case, the wedge shape fits inside the shockwave and "rides" that wave, instead of injesting it. there is also a conical wave rider shape that can be used too. interestingly, wave riding is usually a hypersonic design, so wondering if the PAK and the F-22 are significantly quicker than we are being led to believe. here's a good read from NASA.


http://tfaws.nasa.gov/TFAWS06/Procee...er_Lindsay.pdf
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 09:25 AM
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Thanks!
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