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Old Nov 30, 2012, 07:37 PM
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Well I got one of the many videos to upload to YouTube... I don't even know how. They all said they failed, but one ended up ont here anyway! And I have not worked out what they are not happy with in my files.

Temporary rest here on Su-35 LEF's.... a few other things to do.
But I have to work out whether to 'face' the LEF joint edge with CF or something - or make the LEF totally from Balsa wood.
I like the CF way best, as it is the best finish (A balsa LEF is still a bit soft) except it has some negatives to it. eg More difficult to do the hinging then. Plus the cutting, maching, dust of CF...
But one wing has only 2/3 of a LEF..... so it needs replacing, or joining....

So I puzzle over these things at times available for free-thinking.... and once a light bulb goes off I get back into doing that decided task!! LOL

The top side view of the LEF is even nicer, seeing it is a 'no gap' pivoting joint.
Though this video does not have the 'gap cover strip' coming off the LEF so that the entire 'gap' area is never seen. In stiff card it works perfectly, so PET 3C will also work as required - and it is stiffer and long lasting.
But no other video will upload... so far. (20 tries later....)

Seeing the other wing's 2/3 LEF is all just mocked up and can be dis-assembled and re-assembled easily, I will use that side for a Blog entry on doing the whole LEF addition.... soon.

....

Freewing Su 35 LEF Underside B (0 min 25 sec)
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 07:42 PM
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Mind you I have no real idea WHAT it will do.. of use, or detriment!!
But it looks cool !!!
LOL

This above one has only three hinges in the LEF for now. It can fit about 12 or 15 !!!
I will do at least 9, but probably 12.
There is a trade-off of more hinges versus "Less foam structural rigidity due to slotting so close to each other". 12 verges on passable for that. 15 is too many.

To save the servo ever stressing, ideally you would have just ZERO and FULL LEF use, because full means the LEF edge provides the strength, and the servo all but never needs to provide any strength.
At zero the LEF is traight and there is no pressure to 'bend' it... at full the LEF edge is against the wing edge.
Though I guess it could be more useful if it could be mixed off the 'Ailevons' for a high manoueverability result... at the risk of leaving that enabled for high speeds by mistake, and then finding out how strong it all is, or isn't!!
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:39 PM
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Here's how I implemented LE slats and flaps on a MaxJet F-18

01292011042.mp4 (0 min 12 sec)

MVI_0240.MOV (0 min 19 sec)
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:10 PM
Should've, Would've, Could've
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Looking good Pete, looking good. What did you end up doing about the damaged wing...repair or replace?
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:15 PM
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Hey! That gave me an idea... of using switch/mixing to have any Flaperon/Spoileron use dialling in some (or more) taileron mix! So according to the loss of aileron authority, you regain some roll strength via taileron. I can use a Multiplier function that takes the current Flaperon and/or Spoileron mix output and adds that resultant into the taileron mix that is applied to the elvator then!

Most of this sort of stuff you just 'make-do' with what ever surfaces give whatever new result after a 'detrimental' function is used. eg Flaperon (or spoileron) use still allows one aileron side to be fully effective, so you don't lose all authority, just X amount. But a bit of Dynamic Mixing - which would need test-flight tuning - couldn't hurt!
This is almost like writing sofware in Visual Basic! Programming a PLANE!
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:44 PM
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If you are landing using flaperons, you should have your trottle somewhere between middle and low to make up for the increase in drag,TV will supplement whatever aileron authority you mave have lost. Using the full-stabilators in elevon/taileron mix would also help. This might lead to overcorrection during landing, so low-rates would also be a good idea.

I'd prefer to land the plane a little hot on the throttle rather than get too close to the stall regime, especially when there's not enough altitude for recovery.
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 01:55 AM
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Why do just a little roll to taileron from aileron? The tailerons are always active on the full scale. They are continuously the primary roll and pitch control surfaces. Your roll rate and authority only improves and there is less adverse yaw with them further aft. I can't think of a post cold war fighter aircraft that don't use tailerons.

If you want a sample Jandro/SU was flying all those videos with tailerons active as I have. Many models have only tailerons as the only control surfaces so its not like there is some risk or change using them.
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 02:10 AM
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More than 1 way to wire or mix to get the same result.
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 02:27 AM
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True but I'm trying to understand what's gained by not just leaving them active as the full scale is designed where you have the highest roll authority regardless of the ailerons position as flap/spoil. With taileron, Ailerons and TV influencing roll, they don't need to move as much reducing drag and no need for an extra mix.
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 02:51 AM
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Each setup has its own response characteristics. He's already flown his, so he has a baseline experience for comparison.

Just sit back and wait for his follow-up. Maybe his mods will be suitable for his own flying style. And learning how it will fly is best when it's not on your own dime!
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 04:07 AM
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I am very interested about the primary activity of the tail! Tailerons convince me a great deal, while slats are a great completion with respect to the full scale original when looking for a better landing management.
I just can't wait for the new radios to come then. This is currently holding me from buying the su35. 9xr or x12d please do pop up in december, I beg!
Peter, for what I can see you are doing a MASTERPIECE of a work, and I will try my best to copy your plan. My feeling is that they will work remarkably well especially because the true slat contribution, geometrically, is much more remarkable on the y axis origin close to the fuselage, while it tapers off towards the extreme edges (tip of the wingspan).
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 08:54 AM
You are a "go" for reentry
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True; I only comment on the already known experience that tailerons work well since those who've tried it found it does, Sukhoi did, so reinventing the wheel isn't the first place I'd start. Keeping flapperons very active with roll tends to induce Yaw which he commented to earlier. In fact I just realized that we've spoken on the topic before with your F-18 when you were adding LE drop flaps on yours and you gave roll authority to the Stab/Elevator removing it from the flapperons (likely because you didn't want the LE flaps operating differentially) if I'm recalling correctly. I had forgotten till you posted that video that you were the same Fred. Is that F-18 blue angel still flying?
I seem to remember commenting on converting the stab/elev to a full moving stab. You got it to work then so its true unconventional sometimes still works.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredmdbud View Post
Each setup has its own response characteristics. He's already flown his, so he has a baseline experience for comparison.

Just sit back and wait for his follow-up. Maybe his mods will be suitable for his own flying style. And learning how it will fly is best when it's not on your own dime!
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 09:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterVRC View Post
Well I got one of the many videos to upload to YouTube... I don't even know how. They all said they failed, but one ended up ont here anyway! And I have not worked out what they are not happy with in my files.

Temporary rest here on Su-35 LEF's.... a few other things to do.
But I have to work out whether to 'face' the LEF joint edge with CF or something - or make the LEF totally from Balsa wood.
I like the CF way best, as it is the best finish (A balsa LEF is still a bit soft) except it has some negatives to it. eg More difficult to do the hinging then. Plus the cutting, maching, dust of CF...
But one wing has only 2/3 of a LEF..... so it needs replacing, or joining....

So I puzzle over these things at times available for free-thinking.... and once a light bulb goes off I get back into doing that decided task!! LOL

The top side view of the LEF is even nicer, seeing it is a 'no gap' pivoting joint.
Though this video does not have the 'gap cover strip' coming off the LEF so that the entire 'gap' area is never seen. In stiff card it works perfectly, so PET 3C will also work as required - and it is stiffer and long lasting.
But no other video will upload... so far. (20 tries later....)

Seeing the other wing's 2/3 LEF is all just mocked up and can be dis-assembled and re-assembled easily, I will use that side for a Blog entry on doing the whole LEF addition.... soon.

....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8k0NgX9VBQ

Looks good Pete. Just be aware the airflow might suck your PET off the wing surface at speed.
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 09:45 AM
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specific custom kit

Guys I keep on gaining from you, this su35 has convinced me fully and I am so thrilled to go for it finally!
Through Hobby King there is an easy option to buy the body only if you so wish, meaning that I would need the servos, esc, motors and fans.
I believe that it would be wonderful to have a setup with 10 blades. Would any of you give me their recommended setup pick within the hobby king listings?
I am in Europe so Germany and Netherlands could do the trick easily for me.
Also, I would be keen to stay on the Turnigy brand (don't ask, it's just that it is like a mania for me) and perhaps attempt a lower cost option, of course without sacrificing completely quality.
I am looking forward to do this more for the pleasure to build one, instead of becoming a world class 3d pilot, so that's why I put the limited budget into the plan.
Thanks!
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Old Dec 01, 2012, 11:14 AM
You are a "go" for reentry
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Originally Posted by .Superfly. View Post
...10 blades.....?
How much power/thrust are you looking for off 6S I assume? And how do you want to configure power supply. If you are getting the Turnigy 9X I'd go Petes route.

Pete could likely tell you more on the Turnigy motor setups but look over this list to pick from from the CS10 test results. DPS just came out with a 12 blade that HK also sells. You may want to look at the early results for that one also.

I tend to stick with HobbyWing optical Clones rebranded under Turnigy but many of the ESCs work well.
Now this is where you need to give more details on setup. RX battery, BEC off 2S battery or off the main pack, etc.
BECs I tend to stick with CC becs at 6V but I've also used two of the Turnigy 2S BECs with an 8amp output. The only reason I hadn't used the dual BEC from them is weight.

Servos..... there are so many and the three brands I've tried from HK all work like or better than the FW servos. I've been trying the HV 7.2V servos though since doing so can eliminate the need for a BEC as a point of fail (landing gear still needs max 6V in which case any basic step down will do). Doing this also reduces chance of RX brown out with the higher voltage and sufficient RX LiFe battery with 10amps capable. The batts are so cheap and light I got a bunch of them and swap them out every 3 flights.

But that all just one of many approaches.
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