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Old Nov 21, 2012, 10:09 PM
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United States, CA, Woodland
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Back to were I was before the S*!% hit the fan ( old joke ) Waiting for sequencer from HK. Changed ESC connector to battery, will fly with 1100 mah nimh battery for receiver( I hope ) Happy turkey day
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Old Nov 21, 2012, 10:12 PM
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Last edited by R. Mike Neely; Nov 21, 2012 at 10:13 PM. Reason: no video
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 07:16 AM
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Australia, VIC, Melbourne
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The pics are just as it ended up in the car park.....
Even though it hit the fence post about 4 metres before where it ended up, the wing still went with it, more or less.

I haven't even looked at it since collecting the bits, but I guess I could straighten the alloy tube and use carbon fibre tube inside of that to re-strengthen it. Otherwise just replace the alloy tube with a CF one. (determined by whatever sizes I have).
The dent in the wing, from the fence post, is more annoying.....

22metres of "Carrier Deck Runway"... then about 40 metres of "reasonably nice grass".... then a metal railing/fence... then trees....
It is easy to fly off 'sedately' (scale realistic) and be airborne before the 'runway' runs out, as per a real aircraft take-off process and a shallow climb over tree height by then. That is IF you have a plane that does actually take-off!!! Some 'more sedate' take-off cases I bank leftwards through the tree gap area with the smaller tree. I guess the van parked there gives a tree height reference.

...
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 08:04 AM
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United States, NV, Fernley
Joined Oct 2011
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Tough luck Pete... I'm really thinking how lucky I am to have a 5000ft plus runway to fly off with not a tree insight.

My only beef with this model is the takeoff rollout. Some of you guys have no problems at the lower altitudes and can enjoy scale climbs etc. But then again I have a big ass long paved runway.... Smile
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 08:20 AM
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United States, NM, Clovis
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterVRC View Post
The pics are just as it ended up in the car park.....
Even though it hit the fence post about 4 metres before where it ended up, the wing still went with it, more or less.

I haven't even looked at it since collecting the bits, but I guess I could straighten the alloy tube and use carbon fibre tube inside of that to re-strengthen it. Otherwise just replace the alloy tube with a CF one. (determined by whatever sizes I have).
The dent in the wing, from the fence post, is more annoying.....

22metres of "Carrier Deck Runway"... then about 40 metres of "reasonably nice grass".... then a metal railing/fence... then trees....
It is easy to fly off 'sedately' (scale realistic) and be airborne before the 'runway' runs out, as per a real aircraft take-off process and a shallow climb over tree height by then. That is IF you have a plane that does actually take-off!!! Some 'more sedate' take-off cases I bank leftwards through the tree gap area with the smaller tree. I guess the van parked there gives a tree height reference.

...
That sucks! I know you changed some things after your last flight but most of them should have helped roll out distance...correct? Dont understand especially after a few days ago you reported having a great roll out (22m). What happened this time?
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 08:51 AM
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That is the question.... LOL
It SHOULD have been better than ever! And with the prior flights as a known reference of how it could take-off even with notable detrimental factors.

I can't think of any reason so far. I made sure all the settings, controls etc were correct.
Not that I wanted to, but if I went straight to Flight Mode 2 with TV active it would probably (hopefully) take off fine in the 22m.... but it would 'leap' and I don't want that. Though I don't want it hitting fence posts again either! hehe

Next time I am going to start from a fence-line and just run across the 'good grass', which then I have something like 120 metres or more to see how any take-off process is going, and long before running out of room! But at the cost of a bit more wheel drag and thus top speed cost.

It probably also does not have enough AoA/Rake still. I will check that again to see what I think. It can probably cope with another 3mm to 5mm of spacer block on the nose gear. The nose leg goes well into the bay, from memory.
Which reminds me I have to get back to the F-22 also, to work out why it also won't even get anywhere near taking off! And I expect it will be much the same reason as the Su. (whatever that is!)
Maybe take-off with minor Spoileron (UP ailerons).... or add that into the "take-off" mix. (of both planes).
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 08:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterVRC View Post
That is the question.... LOL
It SHOULD have been better than ever! And with the prior flights as a known reference of how it could take-off even with notable detrimental factors.

I can't think of any reason so far. I made sure all the settings, controls etc were correct.
Not that I wanted to, but if I went straight to Flight Mode 2 with TV active it would probably (hopefully) take off fine in the 22m.... but it would 'leap' and I don't want that. Though I don't want it hitting fence posts again either! hehe

Next time I am going to start from a fence-line and just run across the 'good grass', which then I have something like 120 metres or more to see how any take-off process is going, and long before running out of room! But at the cost of a bit more wheel drag and thus top speed cost.

It probably also does not have enough AoA/Rake still. I will check that again to see what I think. It can probably cope with another 3mm to 5mm of spacer block on the nose gear. The nose leg goes well into the bay, from memory.
Which reminds me I have to get back to the F-22 also, to work out why it also won't even get anywhere near taking off! And I expect it will be much the same reason as the Su. (whatever that is!)
Maybe take-off with minor Spoileron (UP ailerons).... or add that into the "take-off" mix. (of both planes).
If I remember correctly the most you can use is 9-10mm spacer before plastic piece on wheel prevents door from closing all the way.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 10:50 AM
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Spain
Joined May 2006
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Did you check wind direction and intensity?
Still don't think removing TV is a good idea, I've explained this earlier, it's not the TV what makes the airplane "jump" but using great taileron deflections.

Sorry for the crash, know you will repair it
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 10:51 AM
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United States, AR, Jacksonville
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Pete, wasn't there a possibility that you had 50% flaperons deployed on your 22m takeoff?
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 01:45 PM
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I say a video where a guy gave the tip of using nearly boiling water to expand the crushed foam and it seemed to work extremely well, as if the foam had a memory. I believe it was EPS foam.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 01:59 PM
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Australia, NSW, Williamtown RAAF
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urrl View Post
I say a video where a guy gave the tip of using nearly boiling water to expand the crushed foam and it seemed to work extremely well, as if the foam had a memory. I believe it was EPS foam.
I have used that trick on both EPS and EPO. It works OK, but I still had to do a little filling, sanding and sealing to get rid of wrinkles.
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 04:15 PM
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Flap should decrease the takeoff roll, spoilerons (given that they spoil lift...) should increase it.

Flap changes the camber of the wing as well as the effective rigging angle, so it creates more lift with the same attitude.

Either way, the solution? More thrust
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 05:03 PM
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The other day the first flight had about mid Flaperons all flight - from take-off to landing. The second flight had none.
But both took off very nicely..To me both seemed the same.

With the Flaperons out it had a severe dive and needed a lot of UP elevator to offset that.
Flaps change the chord line to be angled 'upwards' - as there is a new wing profile created from leading edge going to the new lower trailing edge. Thus the plane needs to nose down to equalise the new lift vector.
This is why a plane can fly into landing with nose down attitude, but at the same speed it would otherwise have needed to fly nose up for that same speed. There is more lift and it is vectored 'upwards/rearwards'.... so nose down re-vectors that to vertical.

For take-off, planes do you use flaps, of course.... so you might think that will make it more nose down again,. it still does, but it doesn't matter as elevator can over-ride that anyway. All that matters to them is that they do get more lift from a lower speed. Attitude 'issues' don't matter as they can be corrected easily anyway.

But in this model Su-35 case, where it struggles to take off, ANY further nose down pressure is a nuisance and detrimental to it taking off. This is where a SPOILERON could very well be more use. The issue is not a lack of lift, so losing some is no problem. The issue of importance in this case (versus real planes wanting more lift) is to get ROTATION, so it can even get a decent AoA to lift off well... and possibly (if it is true at all) to break the inlet ducting suction that holds it down more than if there were none.
So a Spoileron will cause re-vectoring of lift that LIFTS the nose. For the same reason that interacting elevator ailerons are set to move the SAME way.... elevator UP, Aileron UP (which is Spoileron), for pitching the nose UP.

To me, it seems there is something the Su needs to "break free" of. Break free, or 'exceed'. You can see it in all videos of take-offs.
The list of possibilities would include:
1) EDF suction (cheaters?) making it notably hard to lift the nose
2) Inadequate static AoA, thus the stance makes it pressured downwards at all times.
And the elevator authority does not reach a high enough level until Speed X.
3) Tied in with No2. Wash from the wings - as a total of all ground effects coming from various sources - is making the elevator authority diminished.
This looks likely because the transition from elevator not helping much, to a sudden 'jump', is sharp. Some threshold is finally 'beaten', thus the elevator authority leaps up in strength then.

So I would think it needs better AoA stance. And that SPOILERONS would do X amount better than up elevator can do,
Oh.. and of course, UP TV would be 'pure help' too. But that is a 'bandaid fix' not a true fix of the real issue. (I think AoA is the real issue)
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 05:31 PM
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United States, FL, Oviedo
Joined Dec 2008
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Fans

Anyone know where I can get replacement fans in the US ?

How bout any generic that will fit ?

WILL ANY 70MM 6 BLADE 4mm ROTOR WORK ?

Thanks
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Old Nov 22, 2012, 06:24 PM
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The rotor needs to 'fit'. Slight differences can mean different clearance gaps, or no clearance.
So it is probably best to get a whole fan unit. Those are usually only $5 to $10 range, for the complete unit.
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