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Old Nov 01, 2012, 01:47 PM
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I couldn't wait for Christmas and I noted that the woman didn't even know where to buy this plane.

So now I'm in the middle of my build (lol). I'm going with flaperons, can anyone comment on which direction this airframe pitches when the flaps are extended?
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 02:09 PM
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Oh boy! Here we go!
WW welcome. You'll have loads of fun.
To your question, I found this will change with setup. Nose heavy, Stable neutral, etc. Mainly changed by battery placement.
I was very conscious of pitching either way and while adjusting the stabs I found the need for more pitch up or pull back on stick to stabalize the flapperons.

But this also changed depending on the speed I engaged them and the flapperon position; takeoff or landing setting.

If faster it would do a flat slight nose down balloon. I added more pitch up but also noted not to engage at excessive speeds and that a good elev to flap mix was needed to blend more pitch to cancel any nose down.

Oh I do have the flaps on a slidder and cg160-165. So if you make no other input and increase down flap position, the flaps do sit a little behind neutral to cause a pitch down. But with very little taileron, that quickly became a good pitch up for tighter turns. It bleeds the speed more though than without and just using the TV in pitch. So I don't leave the elv>flap mix on for speed FM.

Landing and takeoff is where I've found they helped the most so far though I only had a few flights with them. So still working out optimal settings to those conditions.
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 03:19 PM
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Thanks for the inputs Max.

My goal is to use the mix only for landings and takeoffs. Your description of the flaperon behavior seems to be the same I've experienced with the Skyangel F-35; the nose pitches down when flaps are extended.

I guess the ailerons are so far behind the CG, that the flaperons behave like elevons on a delta wing.
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 07:45 PM
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Sorry for the altitude troubles, that must be annoying!

Yes I tend to fly a lot in the vertical plane not only because this is the way performed on demos but also because my love for 3D and the field limitations. Most of my videos show the same maneuvers both at normal speed and slowmotion, typically 0,5x (Half velocity).

Chen, If you want to make it look realistic I suggest you avoid certain sharp turns.
If you make a sudden change of direction it's ok but sustained closed radius flight isn't that nice. I've found over practice that if you delay the ends of loops the most you can, the better it looks, and on horizontal turns, use very little elevator at first and use more towards the end of the turn. Specially when you are going to make it fly towards you or the crowd.

Good luck!

BTW: That YAK130 from the past F4C World Championship turned to foam was just SICK.
Have you seen the original one?
Each one costs around 230.000€ !!! They even built a factory to make them!
It had working LCD screens and Countermeasure dispensers! Holy cr*p!
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 07:54 PM
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Where can I get a sequencer for the SU-35
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Whiskey Whiskey View Post
....I guess the ailerons are so far behind the CG, that the flaperons behave like elevons on a delta wing.
Ah, No, not the same. I certainly can't use the flapperons as pitch control. In spoiler position, they don't create any pitch up. The flapperons sit too close to aircrafts neutral to have any other effect other than a break/lift device.

Even a high cambered wing at high AoA will pitch down just as any flapped straight wing. Since it can't control pitch its not a control surface; elevon, taileron, stabilator, Stab/elevator etc.

Elevons are well aft of the wings aerodynamic center, neutral and CG.
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 08:02 PM
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Originally Posted by R. Mike Neely View Post
Where can I get a sequencer for the SU-35
Not sold as a Freewing spare part, but there are other options.

HK (ASSAN)

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=4421
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 08:04 PM
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Are you sure that Yak-130 was foam? Saw some pictures of its construction, and looked to be made of wood and fiberglass.
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 08:25 PM
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Surely Flaperons, or Spoilerons, would be rearwards enough to have some pitch effect? Even at 165mm CofG (let alone at 150mm). And they cover quite a big total area.
Maybe not much if you didn't have much angle set for them - which would be a compromise of whether you wanted any aileron travel left (on one side in its direction), or not, or have mixes for taileron assistance.
So one person might have...???... 10deg set (half useless).... and another uses the max of 30deg (or whatever it is). You would need to state that travel/angle to give information on what the case was.

I gave up on flaperon/spoilerons on all aircraft I tried them on because of the notable pitch effect - worse than for flaps (that is for a simple reason). P-51, F-35, Mig-15 (esp bad on its swept wing), Vampire....
I never got to try them on the Su...... or maybe did on the first flight, for landing, but I forget anything about what ever happened with that (too long ago!).
I had mine set for FULL travel, as I have tailerons - plus you only really need one aileron travelling away from flaperon/spoileron to have good enough control for landing. (eg One of them is not going to change on aileron control as it is already maxed out). My ailerons are also 'elevons' too.

Hmm, my Dynam Meteor also had flaperons, which I decided were useless versus the pitch nuisance. And an elevator mix is mostly useless too, because the pitch change is a dynamic effect (speed related) that a fixed elevator mix can't correct properly anyway so why bother at all. But the Meteor still has elevons as they greatly enhance pitch manoueverability - quite notably.
Its dimensions, aileron position versus CofG, are similar to the Su.
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 08:25 PM
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The pics and demo on R2F is EPS foam. You can see the hot wire stagger marks on the foam surface.
Who knows what it'll be in production though. Still looking for details.
It has flaps and air brake Oh goodie.... a single 90mm, lighting, ordnance package......
I've always been wining about someone making a SU-39 and the YAK-130 is a close cousin.

ready2fly Yak130 Beta II preview and maiden (6 min 56 sec)


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Originally Posted by fredmdbud View Post
Are you sure that Yak-130 was foam? Saw some pictures of its construction, and looked to be made of wood and fiberglass.
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 08:46 PM
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Gee, they are putting a fair bit of the finer details into that Yak.
I guess many future models will just get more and more stuff added into them, just as they come.
Too bad it is an ugly plane! LOL
Some color MIGHT help that a bit..... but it is never going to be a sleek and beautiful plane.
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 08:55 PM
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Surely Flaperons, or Spoilerons, would be rearwards enough to have some pitch effect? ......
Pete Pete Pete
They create some pitch moment as I just said only because they are deployed down and most of the lateral CG is around them. Thus the need for pitch up correction. But this is typical for this aircraft.

They simply take on a cambered foil character. Like any glider with a cambered foil high lift wing even without flaps deployed, the Tail stab/elevator has to be at higher angles to stop a slow gliders wing from nosing the aircraft over. Go to the glider section... they clearly explain that so no need for theories. The obvious advantage is .... it glides with a better lift coefficient.

Sorry you couldn't figure out how to set them up correctly and it doesn't work unless you follow the similar convention of a full scale. Models often change the control surface shape or placement changing convention.

This one doesn't and its working for me so far.... But then I'm not surprised that you feel the need to say they will never work while I'm getting them to and you haven't tried it as you just said.

You added the Meteor/habu.... Bad comparison since its a stab elevator which would need flaps separate from the ailerons to maintain sufficient roll control. That model is design for basic straight line flying. The elevator isn't designed for high moment authority. So that apple to this orange ya I can see why you'd have a harder time getting it to work though several did and flaps are standard on its larger Composite.
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 08:56 PM
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The Yak may not be the most handsome looking jet but when you see this video..... well nuff said just check it out. View the whole thing. It is an amazing effort.

RUS JET MASTERS 2012 (5 min 56 sec)
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 09:04 PM
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LOL, you guys are hurting my head...

For my landing mix with flaps deployed, do I need to program in down eleveator or up elevator?

A majority of my flap experience, with gliders, has been down elevator...
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Old Nov 01, 2012, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acesimmer View Post
The Yak may not be the most handsome looking jet but when you see this video..... well nuff said just check it out. View the whole thing. It is an amazing effort.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGY9dr5p4MA
Nice vid, almost finish watching it...until i saw the dude in the CAPRIS PANTS @ 4:08 Man Yak 130 jet is surely a beauty!
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