HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Sep 17, 2012, 08:27 PM
Registered User
My fliight's Avatar
Joined Sep 2012
12 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxthrottle View Post
Love the doors with Wendy's drinking cups. But as V8 asked, I'd be interested to see how the mains hold up. The guys were already rotating the axles free from toe out on a straight post. Offsetting at the retract will increase the toe out force. Not sure if the standard retract will last with the rotational force on it from a few landings. Let us know how she does.
It was from your earliest video and Jandros use of the trailing link Euro struts that gave me the idea to do the offset at the end of the strut rather than the top. Thus everything stays factory with the exception of the strut end where in rotates into the same end wheel stow position.
Wish they would make a true 50*/50* retract though.

Making of a Sukhoi Su-30 Flanker (3 min 19 sec)


Hey Max watch at 2:41 you can see how the mains swing wide and rotate at the same time so the wheel will clear the intake nacelle. One of my 1st attempt I installed a stock RC lander rotating unit on my Su-35 and the wheel would always jam on the side of the intake nacelle. so the only way i can clear the nacelle was to make to bends in strut leg.
My fliight is offline Find More Posts by My fliight
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Sep 17, 2012, 08:36 PM
Registered User
My fliight's Avatar
Joined Sep 2012
12 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by urrl View Post
Outstanding work! Too bad the stock wheels, axles and struts are undependable.
Freewing made this jet simple to reduce failures, but I think the stock setup dosen't take advantage of the flanker lifting body fuselage. No flaps equals hot landings which is hard on the gear. I marvel at how all the LX jets perform High alpha passes and slow flight. so I know my plane will have a higher failure rate, but I will install leading dege slats with no gaps in the wing for reduced drag actually im almost finish and will be posting a vid very soon.
My fliight is offline Find More Posts by My fliight
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 17, 2012, 08:44 PM
Registered User
My fliight's Avatar
Joined Sep 2012
12 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8truckin View Post
Edit your above post and delete the frown icon or add a space its messing up the YouTube link.

Oh ya what's up! Welcome!

I figured out the post link though and that is one sweet mod. Nice and clean. How are the doors n wheels holding up?
Well the paint sticks and jams the doors sometimes. They hang kind of low when open. I will use the wikes 6 plug sequencer and program the main doors to close after the main gear retract down so i can take off from the grass. But intill I iron out ALL the bugs she will not fly.
My fliight is offline Find More Posts by My fliight
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 17, 2012, 09:38 PM
You are a "go" for reentry
Maxthrottle's Avatar
High Orbit.....
Joined Jun 2009
6,674 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by My fliight View Post

Hey Max watch at 2:41 you can see how the mains swing wide and rotate at the same time so the wheel will clear the intake nacelle. One of my 1st attempt I installed a stock RC lander rotating unit on my Su-35 and the wheel would always jam on the side of the intake nacelle. so the only way i can clear the nacelle was to make to bends in strut leg.
Thats what I ment by wishing the would make a 50/50 trunnion. The Russian use a simple 50 degrees aft and 50 degrees out angle for the trunnion strut rotation. That's what give the swing out and around. Its not 45 degrees because they stow the wheels at an angle. Mitzu or was it I forget now but there is one of the SU threads where he machined his own set of angled trunnions. He also did a version tube in a tube angled and mounted with the 50/50*.

As for the RCL Ya did the same 4 years ago with my SU-34. But what I'm explaining and as I mentioned on YouTube, a trailing link strut where the wheel sits offset and aft from the strut mount keeps the wheel from striking the side of the duct. You have the offset or bend at the top to move the wheel out. But it finally dawned on me watching jandros and V8s trailing strut and your vid that the offset can be at the bottom that also holds the wheel away from the duct wall. The Euro strut doesn't work unless you use a smaller wheel only because that trailing offset is for a 55mm wheel vs the 35s 65mm wheel. It works with the smaller wheel but starts to brush against the side of the duct with the larger.

All that is needed is to increase the angle of the trailing strut to have the 65mm OD of the wheel sit in line with the sturt post and thus would be no closer to the duct wall than the strut itself.
And because its a trailing link, it doesn't have the z bend offset that you have at the top that mounts into the trunnion. That Z bend adds enough torque that it would likely rotate out of the trunnion mount. But the trailing link gear down is linear and doesn't add as significant a toe out rotational force. I had this all setup a month or so ago on the PZ rotationals but I hadn't cut up my Euro trailing link struts to get it to work because I also have a larger set of F18 struts that can do the 65mm wheel offset. I just didn't get back to the project. I've been flying it as is for now since the season is closing soon.

Thanks for the inspiration though. For those doors, I would use cable tubes through the radio wire port to a single servo, Y'd off the provided sequences door line. BTW if you want it to scale the SU-27 family leave the main wheel doors open on landings. It helps with air braking and they sit high enough above the duct belly to keep out of the grass.
Maxthrottle is offline Find More Posts by Maxthrottle
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by Maxthrottle; Sep 17, 2012 at 10:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 17, 2012, 09:53 PM
You are a "go" for reentry
Maxthrottle's Avatar
High Orbit.....
Joined Jun 2009
6,674 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by My fliight View Post
... leading dege slats with no gaps in the wing for reduced drag actually im almost finish and will be posting a vid very soon.
What does your LE flap design look like? Technically its not a slat once it doesn't have a gap. It gets the designation of a LE flap or lift device. The gap and drag is actually beneficial for lift but isn't used on military designs because it lights up radar.
I wanted to add LE Flaps but the wing mount block is well into the slat line. Did you just make yours narrower?
Maxthrottle is offline Find More Posts by Maxthrottle
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Freewing 90mm F-16C
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 17, 2012, 11:13 PM
Registered User
My fliight's Avatar
Joined Sep 2012
12 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxthrottle View Post
What does your LE flap design look like? Technically its not a slat once it doesn't have a gap. It gets the designation of a LE flap or lift device. The gap and drag is actually beneficial for lift but isn't used on military designs because it lights up radar.
I wanted to add LE Flaps but the wing mount block is well into the slat line. Did you just make yours narrower?
C:\Users\user''\Pictures\su=flanker edge slats

Well Im Hope that worked
In case the pic did not come out I coppied the russian design I cut the LE off the wing I glued a smaller Leading edge on made of sanded foam Then I bored out the back of the leading edge then hinged it to the bottom camber of the wing and it looks like this.

http://www.patricksaviation.com/file...9337_14084.jpg
This is a SU-33 wing and my insipration

http://www.nextcraft.com/media/high_...t_extended.jpg
My fliight is offline Find More Posts by My fliight
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 17, 2012, 11:19 PM
Registered User
My fliight's Avatar
Joined Sep 2012
12 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxthrottle View Post
Thats what I ment by wishing the would make a 50/50 trunnion. The Russian use a simple 50 degrees aft and 50 degrees out angle for the trunnion strut rotation. That's what give the swing out and around. Its not 45 degrees because they stow the wheels at an angle. Mitzu or was it I forget now but there is one of the SU threads where he machined his own set of angled trunnions. He also did a version tube in a tube angled and mounted with the 50/50*.

As for the RCL Ya did the same 4 years ago with my SU-34. But what I'm explaining and as I mentioned on YouTube, a trailing link strut where the wheel sits offset and aft from the strut mount keeps the wheel from striking the side of the duct. You have the offset or bend at the top to move the wheel out. But it finally dawned on me watching jandros and V8s trailing strut and your vid that the offset can be at the bottom that also holds the wheel away from the duct wall. The Euro strut doesn't work unless you use a smaller wheel only because that trailing offset is for a 55mm wheel vs the 35s 65mm wheel. It works with the smaller wheel but starts to brush against the side of the duct with the larger.

All that is needed is to increase the angle of the trailing strut to have the 65mm OD of the wheel sit in line with the sturt post and thus would be no closer to the duct wall than the strut itself.
And because its a trailing link, it doesn't have the z bend offset that you have at the top that mounts into the trunnion. That Z bend adds enough torque that it would likely rotate out of the trunnion mount. But the trailing link gear down is linear and doesn't add as significant a toe out rotational force. I had this all setup a month or so ago on the PZ rotationals but I hadn't cut up my Euro trailing link struts to get it to work because I also have a larger set of F18 struts that can do the 65mm wheel offset. I just didn't get back to the project. I've been flying it as is for now since the season is closing soon.

Thanks for the inspiration though. For those doors, I would use cable tubes through the radio wire port to a single servo, Y'd off the provided sequences door line. BTW if you want it to scale the SU-27 family leave the main wheel doors open on landings. It helps with air braking and they sit high enough above the duct belly to keep out of the grass.
Yea unfortantly I dont have access to heavy metal manipulating machines
My fliight is offline Find More Posts by My fliight
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 17, 2012, 11:29 PM
Should've, Would've, Could've
v8truckin's Avatar
United States, CA
Joined Dec 2010
6,844 Posts
Coldasice,

That last link for leading edge slates is a nice clean design. If/When you pull those off, hats off to you. They'll definitely be put to use.
v8truckin is online now Find More Posts by v8truckin
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 18, 2012, 08:08 AM
Registered User
My fliight's Avatar
Joined Sep 2012
12 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8truckin View Post
Coldasice,

That last link for leading edge slates is a nice clean design. If/When you pull those off, hats off to you. They'll definitely be put to use.
Hey V8 heres a sneak peak of my progress

Name: CIMG0205.jpg
Views: 110
Size: 174.8 KB
Description: Zero gap Ive seen guys sand a wedge in the lower camber of the wing then hinge the slat at the upper camber and when the slat is in neutral theirs a huge gap in the lower section of the wing

Name: CIMG0209.jpg
Views: 180
Size: 110.9 KB
Description: see no gaps or very little gaps regardles of slat position (deployed)

Name: CIMG0211.jpg
Views: 134
Size: 95.4 KB
Description: see no gaps or very little gaps regardles of slat position (neutral)
My fliight is offline Find More Posts by My fliight
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 18, 2012, 09:36 AM
You are a "go" for reentry
Maxthrottle's Avatar
High Orbit.....
Joined Jun 2009
6,674 Posts
You went that route. I did the same on Freewing SU-34 and F-35 years back but I found the servos were over straining because the thin foam lip rubs the curve round that it followed. It worked great but I eventually did another by glassing the LE to make the top section thin like the sheet material of the real one. The foam cut that I originally did when thin started getting damaged and warn which is why I started looking for another approach. Like the one I posted.

Still it looks very nice. May be the only wayto do it for these because of the mount block and wing rod etc.
Looking forward to hearing how they help the lift Coeff. and slow the approach even more. They did on both my SU-34 and F-35.
Maxthrottle is offline Find More Posts by Maxthrottle
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Freewing 90mm F-16C
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 18, 2012, 09:45 AM
Flying Hazard
SU-4ever's Avatar
Spain
Joined May 2006
3,034 Posts
awesome.
SU-4ever is offline Find More Posts by SU-4ever
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 18, 2012, 10:36 AM
Should've, Would've, Could've
v8truckin's Avatar
United States, CA
Joined Dec 2010
6,844 Posts
Awesome work! I 2 was concerned of the servo strain on those once deployed, its a heavy plane. On my airbrake I had to switch to a metal geared servo as the strain on it caused it to strip and its no problem now, but you have more surface contact/hinge points unlike my airbrakes one. What's securing the top portion of the slates to the wing?
v8truckin is online now Find More Posts by v8truckin
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 18, 2012, 11:38 AM
You are a "go" for reentry
Maxthrottle's Avatar
High Orbit.....
Joined Jun 2009
6,674 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8truckin View Post
Awesome work! I 2 was concerned of the servo strain on those once deployed, its a heavy plane. On my airbrake I had to switch to a metal geared servo as the strain on it caused it to strip and its no problem now, but you have more surface contact/hinge points unlike my airbrakes one. What's securing the top portion of the slates to the wing?
The strain was partly because of my engineering. I used a torsion rod to actuate the LE. Basically a L near the root that the rod itself formed the hinge pin and then another L on the end about 1/3 of the way down from the root out into the LE.

I formed it by cutting the LE off entirely. Then I setup a Nichrome wire rig at the edge of a plank. Then I taped the entire LE hinge line to the edge of a plank and allowed the inner back side of the LE to rotate into the wire evenly. This made a form fit perfect round that match the LE exactly. The inner round I just glued back on with a CF strip in between it and the wing.

However, once the wind was pushing against the LE it would put pressure on the entire LE pressing the two forms against each other foam against foam the full span of the wing exerting enough friction to strain the servo. I tested that first on the ground reversing a high powered VAC which is where I noted the issue at first suspecting it might be an issue with continuous current spikes as the LE flap was actuated; especially since I had them mix via a slower off the elevator channel causing them to be constantly be active.

So I taped the two inner surfaces which worked but it really was the combination of using the L rod torsion arm and the span of the friction that was creating the problem.

So on my SU-34 I put the servo in the wing, since its all foam, to push the top side of the LE flap which pushed the two surfaces apart enough to reduce the friction and gave the servo a better leverage advantage.
Trouble with the SU-35 and doing this is the wing rod and other bits sit where I had placed the servo on the 34 before. That's when I finally said, Oh stop modding and just go fly the thing. Its been such a busy year I hardly had a chance to do even that.

So its nice to see Coldasiice/Myfliight do a good job of these great additions. But as I said in a earlier post it would be nice if Freewing made the LE an optionally glued on surface so that it would form better scale lines, makes a cleaner joint between the wing and fuse if glued, move the design to accommodate LE flaps and allows the builder to incorporate them active much more easily if they chose to. But the final design I came up with removes all the strain and friction completely while using the wind to push the LE to a natural default position if anything failed.

My main remaining concern is having one side fail and not the other in a twin servo actuated setup. Its enough to create a roll moment so I keep going back to a single servo tube cable scenario tunnelled through the wing the same way I would to actuate the doors for the mains.
Oh and it doesn't really need securing because in either design the flap can go only in one direction or at rest. I did add a stop rod in the LE though so that if ever there were enough pressure to the LE, the rod could extend and then go no further with a little L on the end of the rod. It would be easier to use cable tube to do the same.
Maxthrottle is offline Find More Posts by Maxthrottle
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: Freewing 90mm F-16C
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 18, 2012, 12:15 PM
Registered User
Thomas Nelson's Avatar
Calgary, Alberta, Canada
Joined Sep 2002
2,925 Posts
Here's a picture of the 50 degree pivot approach. If you stare at it a bit it will make sense.

tn
Thomas Nelson is offline Find More Posts by Thomas Nelson
Reply With Quote
Old Sep 18, 2012, 01:04 PM
You are a "go" for reentry
Maxthrottle's Avatar
High Orbit.....
Joined Jun 2009
6,674 Posts
Yep those are they! Then they could be actuated in a piston motion rather than a swing arm thus taking up less room to stow.
I thought of dropping a tube in the empty retract pocket and pour in Polyurea to get an exact mold form. Then it would be a matter of machining a trunnion with a standard 5mm rod to mount any strut to. Add a C strap to a grove in the strut and actuate away.
That's where the new electric piston type actuators will come in handy.

It would also be perfect for the future T-50 and for the F-35 Lightning. They also rotate in a similar geometry; slightly different angle though. As long as the down point is 90*.
Maxthrottle is offline Find More Posts by Maxthrottle
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by Maxthrottle; Sep 18, 2012 at 01:10 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion LX F-35 Vs Freewing F-35 Mmarshall Foamy EDFs 17 Jul 09, 2014 07:49 AM
Found SU-34 Freewing lw777pilot Aircraft - Electric - Jets (FS/W) 1 Dec 15, 2013 02:25 PM
New Product Brand New SU-35! 70x2,TV and made by Freewing!Update:Worldwide Availability neversommer Foamy EDFs 593 Jan 09, 2012 10:02 PM
For Sale Freewing SU-34 stock battery - Brand New JGuilty13 Aircraft - Electric - Batteries & Chargers (FS/W) 0 Nov 29, 2011 03:01 PM
For Sale Freewing SU-34 stock battery JGuilty13 Aircraft - Electric - Jets (FS/W) 0 Nov 29, 2011 11:29 AM