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Old Aug 27, 2012, 09:00 PM
Should've, Would've, Could've
v8truckin's Avatar
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Doesn't effect it much, only thing I've noticed is when I turn/bank to the side that the wing mount is on the wing has a slight tendency to drop. Other than that doesn't effect level (just add a lil trim), rolls, flips, landings or takeoffs. If your worried about it add a clip by itself to the other side.
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Old Aug 27, 2012, 09:15 PM
Should've, Would've, Could've
v8truckin's Avatar
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just make sure you remove both stainless steel arms to lighten it up.
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Old Aug 27, 2012, 09:15 PM
Throttle Bender
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Thanks, will try out the 35 buck HK cam tomorrow if it's sunny. I like that angle you did from out on the wing. My last camera was lost in a dogfight midair, my Phase 3 F16 hit a Wingsmaker J 10 from behind. Sheared off the cam and vertical tail. Both planes are repaired and still flying but the Flycam was never found. Would have been great on YouTube.
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Old Aug 27, 2012, 09:32 PM
Should've, Would've, Could've
v8truckin's Avatar
United States, CA
Joined Dec 2010
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And make sure you pry it open a bit as to where it doesn't crush the foam, but not too much as to where it can wiggle loose, you don't wanna lose another.
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Old Aug 27, 2012, 11:05 PM
Should've, Would've, Could've
v8truckin's Avatar
United States, CA
Joined Dec 2010
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SU35 repair build

2nd day of repair

-Sanded spackle after applying 2nd coat

-Painted Grey area, Black area, and added blue to cockpit (tried to match grey to best i could) All acrylic paints.

-By the wknd I will hand paint the decals

Tomorrow i will try and reinforce nose, add canopy, seal painted areas with wbp and cover the lil uneven colored areas with aluminum paint like I did on my weathering to mimic paint chipping. Also took her for a test taxi run and she track perfectly and gears cycle fine.
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 12:23 AM
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Matching a prior source paint... always painful. Even color matching at the hardware rarely gets it truly right.

Oh good.... I will get to paint up the cockpit, and improve it - maybe replace Ivan - seeing the canopy is off now. Not that I know what pilot I will try.... there are probably not many Su-35 pilots on offer!

With your decals, you can buy blank decal sheets online and print off your own - if you have a color printer. I stored an online address that was posted around somewhere..... hmmm, never got to use it. Probably easy to google anyway.
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 12:32 AM
Should've, Would've, Could've
v8truckin's Avatar
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Have you started you nose fix yet Pete? If not its not as bad as it seems at 1st.
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:04 AM
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hey guys looking at all your ideas for nose strenghthening i am nearing completion on mine, as you know i am a belly lander and my problem is opposite to you guys. on landing my frontal area wants to drop down helped by the battery weight rarther than upward so i hacked out the whole front gear mount and glassed the whole rectangular bay then epoxyd a bulkhead forward of the battery bay and will then insert 10mm hard balsa or birch maybe along the top of the battery bay through the bulkhead and into the front gear bay and tie it all in, you can get the idea from the pic with the 10mm notches on the lower corners of the bulkhead. will post more pics when finished. all the best everybody.
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:29 AM
You are a "go" for reentry
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So here's Gorns crude cave man pictogliphic explanation.

As you can see in the top pic there is clear and easy space to slide all kinds of stuff to strengthen the over flexing from nose impacts.
The model has three box structures where they are weakest between each box and at the center of each from the torque effect of impact around the nose gear and momentum of the nose and battery continuing to travel opposite to impact.

Laminates of soft thick to thin hard is nothing new. It combines the properties of both hard and with flex in this case. But since my suggestion is balsa the grain for the balsa run length wise. This glued against the foam box places the grain under tension but glued to the foam makes it difficult to fold as it would on its own.

You see this everywhere. Ply wood, glassing balsa, balsa foam wing etc.

The forward nose gear box also under glued tension from the sheet has a harder time bowing out and failing from impact. But is not entirely rigid enough to pass on some negative effect else where eccept maybe the nose gear mount itself.

The reason I chose this is balsa is light, cheap, readily available and easily applied without cutting her open. There is less flex in the nose picking it up by the battery tray and nose by this simple addition.
This could be extended aft of the battery tray from a standard sheet of balsa.

On another note, I re did the ESC wiring and I have to wait till tomorrow to run it up. Too late to trying it. Didn't look like there were any cold solders so as Mark believed it may be the new ESCs. In which case I'll have to play with the timing etc.
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:33 AM
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Interesting info Richard.... some more things to keep in mind.

I have rejoined all the nose area 'bits'. Just all epoxied back together, thus no extra strength.
Next is to begin checking, measuring etc what exactly is "in there" (the whole nose areas) so I can plan out the strengthening structures.
I am not fussed over weight, so I have no limits imposed (well, within sensibility). The more ply plating the better! But likely to cost some re-balancing fun!
I wouldn't expect to add more than 200g max, and maybe far less than that... yet to be seen what it 'needs' to do it properly.

I would break apart the nose area if I thought I could do that viably, to get it back together fine - painting the main issue. But the more I think about that the more I think I SHOULD do that.
Do it properly, do it once....
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:39 AM
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Which of the two of these would be the stronger?
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:41 AM
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Wow Max! Thanks for all that dedication to the task!!
I will have to look at that on a big screen at home tonight! LOL

I am extremely leaned to splitting/cutting it in half now. I don't know where it joins, but something through the mid-line horizontal. I will just cut it - with a very sharp knife!
It doesn't matter where the join is, you can make anything work anyway. The foam of the plane is almost just a "filler/cover", LOL. So it would be a bit like some orthopedic surgery!! hehe
I just want to make sure it is 'properly solid'... of the correct strength relative to the rearwards stuff. But I still think that means plywood... 2mm or 2.5mm
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 01:43 AM
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LOL.... Maybe the vertical pic ones are only 1mm 'deep' and the 'weeny' ones are long rods. And the aim is???? Strength which way?
(But I do know what you are meaning to show)
Mine would be the plating AND the rods both..... so my outline is BOTH those pics combined! hehe

Even if not cut open, mine would be plating for ALL open surfaces.... eg gear bay top and sides, battery bay bottom and sides
The only CF is the framework bridging the main units together, where you can't get to. 5mm sort of size area.
But if I cut it open it will be ALL ply plating. No need for CF.
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 02:10 AM
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Well then you are building a tank
Ply on even my big planes are only in certain areas like the landing gear mount and engine box. The rest is various types of balsa. When I bust them up what I noticed is if I used heavier harder materials, the model got heavier stressing areas that were not originally stressed. This goes back to not making it too heavy or too rigid.

But since you like weight ply would be more than enough and the CF wouldn't see any load if the sheet was done correctly.

But the head on nose snaps are a little unavoidable. If the nose retract flex's enough to catch some grass and the nose digs in, which a lot of the pics show is happening, even plate steel isn't going to prevent that.
Thus as I originally said, you need some flex and you can't make it indestructible. So at least make it able to fly well, not crash OK

But then your the pilot. Can't wait to see your quality vids showing how a fat lady flies
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 03:04 AM
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No..... 'imagine' (visualise) the strength of the main body rearwards. You only have to pick it up and rotate, move it, to 'read' the strength.
You can afford to have that same level of strength right to the firewall ahead of the retract. As it comes it is more like 1/10th the strength! Extremely fragile really. Unacceptably so really.

The only thing that would break anything then is if you had a 'larger than slight problem' crash. eg stall out landing, very severe landing bounce. That sort of thing.
A pancake wouldn't bother it much. Even a fairly serious one. The properly adequate structure will withstand 'Battery G's" fine.

And if you have a notable crash, it was going to disintegrate anyway!! So the aim is to make it survive 'normal' levels of "whoops, that was a bit rough". And big crashes are irrelevant.

Ahead of the retract WILL snap off or disintegrate still. No worse than before, but those areas are quick and easy to rebuild... load bearing areas, like retract, battery etc are not.
So, no different to a decent balsa - or these days laser cut plywood - model, it needs continuous 'box framework' to reach decent strength. To use balsa would mean needing entire solid structure sides and tops (or bottom) all interjoined.... just like a balsa plane. And not thin balsa either, for the level of strength needed in this large heavy plane.
Otherwise, to reduce needing 'total' area done you can use ply - and either the main ply boxes, with ply 'interconnections. eg boxes all sides (not necessarily full height sides) and ply bridgings. eg the sides run longer to the next 'box', or even be part of that next box. Or.... bridged with CF rod/tube. Either way, you can construct a very solid, but still quite light, asssemby. And even fitted in-situ...
But is even better if done 'open heart' method! So I can see I will fairly surely have to do that.

Like I said... somewhere from 100g to 200g range all up. If you really wanted to save weight, open up the ply plates - like they do in the laser cut planes. If I weigh all the pieces and am shocked at the total, then I will head to doing that too.
But I am happy out to 3.5Kg.... and even then, will decide on a limit after testing the larger weight (whatever it comes out at). And I am totally sure it will still not even be any issue.

Mine will be equally "solid" to the main fuselage area, right to the forward firewall of the retract bay. Foam may crumble... but it will not 'snap off' unless it was a very serious crash - and maybe not even then. But at some point something has to give....
I am not too fussed over 'that point' as I will unlikely encounter it anyway. 95% of issues will be the smaller "normal" oopses etc. And it will never be breaking just from grass fields or rough landings!

When carrying an 800g payload (battery), in the front area, you need some serious strength to fend off the "3G, 2400g" shocks it will be having! Who knows how many G's in those 'normal level' incidents.

There is no undue load ahead of the retract bay, so that can be left totally untouched - or it could be strengthened up some small amount, which again is based off your own chosen cut-off limit for allowing damage to occur for a useful reason (energy absorption).
If you intend to never crash (a perfectly valid choice) then you can up those limits to make it strong enough to never break UNLESS seriously crashed. That limit choice is a risk factor.
I will not do much to the ahead area.

To me, weight is not an issue. Even at 3.2Kg it doesn't even know it is heavy yet! I doubt it will even 'care' at 3.5Kg. The only care factor is balancing it out. But I always manage to make anything work out anyway, so I don't see any potential problem there.

Jandro's videos of his great flying also are great references to the severely lacking inertia it has. You can see it 'floats' far too much. I expect his is 3.0Kg area, but even 3.5Kg is not really going to reach the required inertias to offset the 'floaty foam factor' - but it will be a good step towards it.

This is going to take two weeks or more.....
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Last edited by PeterVRC; Aug 28, 2012 at 03:10 AM.
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