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Old Aug 23, 2012, 06:33 PM
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V8, that's ExtremeRC. There are a few other vendors spelled Xtreme and they end up finding Marks Australian competitor.
Pretty sure he mentioned the 1400.
I love them but Mark posted new amp numbers ~75 amp full bore so you have to hold them back to keep the flight time. But hopefully John actually documents all the numbers.
As for the mounting... there is nothing different about them other than not having the side mount tabs. But it has the raised center line that is there for straps. Tape works fine which is why Mark recommends using it on his fans unless you are in the 90 and above..
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 06:45 PM
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Best is to always use flanges. Bolt in... bolt out. Unlimited times with no damage ever. Flanges either fixed on, or via strap.
Any glue or tape strips off stuff... foam... paint.... and you have to clean stuff up - messy, sticky, tape.....so not overly great for repeated install/removals.
I think it is why they don't use epoxy or super-glue to stick real car engines in!! LOL

If you want a nice 'soft and deadened' housing installation.... smear a thin coat of vaseline over the housing, and use silicone beads in the plane. It will squeeze around the housing, for a perfect fit, and dry but not stick to the fan housing.
Very good for plastic fans, to make them a much more solid unit... not NECESSARY for alloy, but still better because alloy and 'gaps' = vibrationary noises.

I listed the specs on JK's setup a while back (mine is the same). 4.2Kg total benched.... but only 3.2Kg out of the plane.
But it will do more.....
I am only using 5800 30C's. So using 45C... 65C... would gain some more. (I have a 65C but never tried it in that combo). But at that level you are burning power for excessive waste. You don't need it.
More weight (better used for capacity than C).... for non-linear gain, that is not even needed.... and notably more dollars cost too.
But if you want it (more power)..... you can get it, out of that combo! LOL.
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 06:48 PM
John
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Quote:
Originally Posted by v8truckin View Post
Nice job on the fan/motor combo setup! Looks to have some power actually lots. Really looking forward to your maiden video. My stock setup is getting old and tired so maybe I'll look into that setup sounds really nice also. What were you #s again that you are pulling?

Oh not that I don't agree with your method of install, I just don't understand why it was needed? Does the xtremem rc 70mm shroud not allow the use of the mounts. And why no screws?
I am running the Het 2w-30 which is the 1400W setup. You will also see on the website that the shroud does not come with brackets:

http://www.extremerc.com.au/estore/i...oducts_id=1102

However, you can purchase them on the website separately:

http://www.extremerc.com.au/estore/i...roducts_id=851.

I should have bought them... but didn't want to wait for them.

I am also running these batteries:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s...Lipo_Pack.html

A pair of these ESC's:

http://www.hobbypartz.com/07e-c-platinum-100a.html

And yes, this radio!!

http://www.hobbypartz.com/79p-th9x-r...nel-radio.html
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 06:54 PM
John
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxthrottle View Post
V8, that's ExtremeRC. There are a few other vendors spelled Xtreme and they end up finding Marks Australian competitor.
Pretty sure he mentioned the 1400.
I love them but Mark posted new amp numbers ~75 amp full bore so you have to hold them back to keep the flight time. But hopefully John actually documents all the numbers.
As for the mounting... there is nothing different about them other than not having the side mount tabs. But it has the raised center line that is there for straps. Tape works fine which is why Mark recommends using it on his fans unless you are in the 90 and above..
well I have a Turnigy 130A wattmeter, and if both esc's are pulling 75A, wouldn't the combined amps be too much and burn out my wattmeter... that's the only reason why I haven't tested them out yet... If i have it all wrong then I'll test it as soon as my batteries charge...
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 06:55 PM
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They are not really a "1400W setup". The end result is a factor of your batteries mainly, plus a bit of ESC and wiring stuff. That number is a bit of a erroneaous thing to claim... it should say "It ran at 1400W". Or "We ran it at 1400W".
It could be run at 1600W too. Probably even at 1800W.... and blow up!! LOL

Then in a plane it will be X amount - a fair amount - less. Depending on the plane's structure etc. Plus again... your battery dollar expenditure result.
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 06:56 PM
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I think you will see about 120A on those items you have in total.
Mayeb even down at 110A.
In the plane.
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 06:58 PM
John
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterVRC View Post
Best is to always use flanges. Bolt in... bolt out. Unlimited times with no damage ever. Flanges either fixed on, or via strap.
Any glue or tape strips off stuff... foam... paint.... and you have to clean stuff up - messy, sticky, tape.....so not overly great for repeated install/removals.
I think it is why they don't use epoxy or super-glue to stick real car engines in!! LOL

If you want a nice 'soft and deadened' housing installation.... smear a thin coat of vaseline over the housing, and use silicone beads in the plane. It will squeeze around the housing, for a perfect fit, and dry but not stick to the fan housing.
Very good for plastic fans, to make them a much more solid unit... not NECESSARY for alloy, but still better because alloy and 'gaps' = vibrationary noises.

I listed the specs on JK's setup a while back (mine is the same). 4.2Kg total benched.... but only 3.2Kg out of the plane.
But it will do more.....
I am only using 5800 30C's. So using 45C... 65C... would gain some more. (I have a 65C but never tried it in that combo). But at that level you are burning power for excessive waste. You don't need it.
More weight (better used for capacity than C).... for non-linear gain, that is not even needed.... and notably more dollars cost too.
But if you want it (more power)..... you can get it, out of that combo! LOL.
well does it sound like there is very much vibration resonating from the airframe? I think not. the shrouds are set in place by silicone. the velcro is merely there for MY piece of mind, for added grip, while being able to take off the cover plate whenever I choose.
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 07:09 PM
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Okay I remember your test Peter, but couldn't remember if it was 1400w setup. Man 75a ea.ya that's too much for me. 60a would be my max. Maybe the 900w setup might be worth a try or would it be to light of a setup?
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 07:10 PM
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Did you buy the fans as a completed combo that Mark balanced for you?
If not, did you balance them?

You can do the current check fine.... just wind up the RPM and watch.... if it gets towards 130Amps you can stop anyway. I have the same meter (they are all as good as the same - those "130A" ones), they can do over 130A anyway - though even at any high Amp area you don't want it to do it for long.
In these sort of applications (the meter) the components are rated at X amount.... if it was made properly they would be 150A capable components, to have leeway, but knowing China... they are probably 120A components! LOL
This is still OK, as a component has tolerances in it anyway, so it will still do 140A for EG,... just don't do it for long!! Current (in even most cases) means heat... and time means more heat.... so in this sort of 'over the limit' use, you have X amount of time that it will be fine. Probably even 1 minute, but best is to keep tests that go near limits to be as short as possible!

After power checks (thus no meter)..... Weigh the plane.... run it up holding it vertical....
You are probably about 3.1kg area.... see if it holds it up, or even has lift still.
That is a very easy and quick test.
Otherwise set up to use a scale of course. Nose down into it.

I will test my 65C 5000mAh Nano in it on the weekend (static).
On the 5800 30C I get something like.... 110A peak, very short lived.... 105A more ongoing for a while, but still fading.... probably something like 95A as it fades away later. Could even be less by the very end. I don't have an Amp logger....hmmm, need one of those!!!
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 07:11 PM
John
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acesimmer View Post
Hi JK

Nice video. You will have no problem getting that off the ground. Plenty of power. I was just looking at the surroundings and thought... That looks like Vegas where I have a second home. Then I noticed in your info that you are from Sin City.What area do you live in? Do you fly out of Bennet Field? I'll be in town flying my SU at the Aces event in October. Maybe you will be flying in it also?. Well, great stuff. I would be very interested in your all up flying weight. Will you be able to get someone to take a vid of the maiden? And please let us all know what batteries, motors and exact flying time on your setup once you get it sorted.


Cheers
I live in the Southwest part of town. On Tropicana Ave. and Rainbow Blvd. I have never flown out at the fields because they're so far. I will definitely have a video of the maiden flight... I didn't do all these videos to not document the maiden flight.... honestly I don't have a reliable scale at the moment, so i couldn't tell you what the weight is.. but this definitely feels like the heaviest plane I've ever owned.... hopefully soon I can get a scale for such measurements.
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 07:19 PM
John
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterVRC View Post
Did you buy the fans as a completed combo that Mark balanced for you?
If not, did you balance them?

You can do the current check fine.... just wind up the RPM and watch.... if it gets towards 130Amps you can stop anyway. I have the same meter (they are all as good as the same - those "130A" ones), they can do over 130A anyway - though even at any high Amp area you don't want it to do it for long.
In these sort of applications (the meter) the components are rated at X amount.... if it was made properly they would be 150A capable components, to have leeway, but knowing China... they are probably 120A components! LOL
This is still OK, as a component has tolerances in it anyway, so it will still do 140A for EG,... just don't do it for long!! Current (in even most cases) means heat... and time means more heat.... so in this sort of 'over the limit' use, you have X amount of time that it will be fine. Probably even 1 minute, but best is to keep tests that go near limits to be as short as possible!

After power checks (thus no meter)..... Weigh the plane.... run it up holding it vertical....
You are probably about 3.1kg area.... see if it holds it up, or even has lift still.
That is a very easy and quick test.
Otherwise set up to use a scale of course. Nose down into it.

I will test my 65C 5000mAh Nano in it on the weekend (static).
On the 5800 30C I get something like.... 110A peak, very short lived.... 105A more ongoing for a while, but still fading.... probably something like 95A as it fades away later. Could even be less by the very end. I don't have an Amp logger....hmmm, need one of those!!!
I think it is funny how you knock China for shotty components, and yet most of the electronics, setups, esc's, motors, batteries, bec's, radio equipment.... most of them are made there. now granted not everything that comes out of China is the best quality, true I am not refuting that, but you get what you pay for, no? and even you have to admit that a lot of things that come out of China have made this hobby a little more affordable to those of us who might not be able to afford spending hundreds and hundreds of dollars, which most of us have, on a single airplane.

Anyway... I'll run the tests after I've charge my batteries.
BTW... i bought them as a complete unit, meaning Mark put them together and balanced them.
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 07:22 PM
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As I mentioned higher up, the "1400W" does not mean a lot.
eg like my 5800 30C combo
Lower C has higher Internal Resistance, thus an 'automated' lower current ability (due to interaction with the motors impedance and thus what current draw it 'asks' for).
So if I use the 5800 30C it will do X Watts..... all 'properly', not taxing that battery, it is just the 'natural balance' it will arrive at. Note - if you used a 20C or 15C, you will be in trouble, because that 'natural balance' end result f that will still be an excessive load on the battery.
So for any given motor/fan combo, there is a minimum C you can use 'properly' (eg not over-stress the battery), and then you can get X amount higher power by using more C.

So, that combo with a 65C nano... untested by me for now, but it will be higher output. As 65C means 'lower Internal Resistance' = a motor impedance balance that will be a higher current draw result. And... hopefully... the battery is made to be able to do all that!
eg rated at 65C, it should be able to truly cope with what its capacity times Rating say. Cheap batteries that "lie" will run hotter when pushed to those supposedly capable levels, as they can't do it and thus get hotter.

So anyway... the reason to get that "1400W combo" (or just use that HET 2W30 in any CS10 anyway, because you won't see any difference due to the alloy housing anyway), is because it is a better motor. So no matter what power area you run it at, it will cope with ease.... thus last longer and reliable.

I tested the alloy versus stock CS10... no difference....
The reason you MIGHT choose alloy is..... better cooling ability - only required if you run some overly high power setup. Or that they look nice!! Or that they are a more technically precise item (not required). And again, high power.... so at the very front end of power levels it is better to have something nice and strong that will surely cope!

We would not really reach those levels in this Su. Someone COULD... if they want a 2min flight time, LOL... but the majority never will.
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 07:42 PM
Should've, Would've, Could've
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I've already killed 2 batteries on my stock motor setup one 5000mah 40c zippy and one gens ace 5300mah 35c. I fly WOT about 50-75% of the time so I can only imagine what that combo would do to my batteries...That's the reason I ask. I totally understand your statement above but my experience is that my batteries are being taxed already, maybe its my flying style...? What do u think.
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 07:45 PM
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Hmmm, seems odd to say that I "knocked China for shoddy components"... seeing I never said anything like that at all....
Shoddy ITEMS... yes, LOL.

They say "130A"... but the low spec stuff they really throw in them means more risk of failure. Buy a "good" brand and it will have appropriate components in it to do the job as it claims it can do. A truly good one would do the claimed 130A without an issue... and thus have even higher ability to survive if over specs too.
"Good" means a brand that does sell things made properly - not just a NAME that claim to have good stuff.

When you design something, properly, you then decide how to get it made. Cheap... expensive... properly... compromise....
China can make ANYTHING, good, bad, or ugly.... so if you tell them to make it to YOUR good specs, it will be done. Even with good quality control if you ask, and PAY, for that.

If you pay $20 for a 130A power meter (and that has nothing to do with paying $50 for a relabelled, exact same one, that a brand NAME decided to sell and get a ton of profit from!) you are getting the 'shoddy item' version. It would probably cost $50 for a truly good one.
But the only way you are ever going to KNOW that is if you are technical and pull it apart and check yourself... or some RELIABLE review does all that stuff for you.... or maybe, if 1000 other people have it and all agree it is good/great, LOL.

So China CAN do things well, but more often do not... because they themselves, and also a large portion of the rest of the world giving them specs/orders, opt for the "cheap way" most of the time.

If China "design" something, it is likely to be a rip off copy... ripped off by half qualified people who knew 'half' of what they are doing, so when they copy stuff they can't even get that all right!! LOL. Thus arrive at the inferior outcome, due to that, plus even worse due to poor components used just to be cheapskates, and then poor, or no, quality control!
It a whole sequence of a train going to hell..... LOL

But it is cheap... affordable.... and there is a fine balance of dollars versus result, that generally sway it to be acceptable to use the stuff anyway.
You just need to understand and know how to pick the good from the bad. Or where to set your expectations per dollar spent.

That "130A" meter, flooding the world in various guises, is actually a quite good meter. Worth its dollars. Just be wary over the 100A sort of area I would expect! hehe
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Old Aug 23, 2012, 08:24 PM
Should've, Would've, Could've
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Okay... So dollar (american) for mah & C what battery is sufficient to do what you ask? That is why I pay more for a higher C rated battery rather than settle for a lower C battery which supposedly will supply the max demand of the motors. I figure if I pay more for the higher low quility C itll compensate for the lower quality C. Note: My Su is the only plane that has killed batteries, one reason why I hate twin motor setups, but I know this airframe cannot allow a single 90mm fan.
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