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Old Jul 07, 2012, 12:02 PM
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Oh yeah, I forgot about the FlyFly/HobbyTopGun one. I was thinking it was twin 90mm, but that is their Mig-29 I was thinking of (Which I almost got 6 months ago, but luckily disliked the twin 90mm costs!!). The F-22 is apparently quite tricky to set up and fly - like a real one I guess!! I have a 900mm F-35 and it is an excellent "skills trainer", LOL. Every single flight is a case of the unknown, of what can suddenly unfold if you muck around a bit too much without 110% focus/attention on it all the time! Such a narrow wingspan, it is somewhat of a mis-guided missile at times. Esp on high rates!

At 1.3m length, the FlyFly is a bit big compared to the Su. I haven't checked specs but I would think a about 1m would be a better scale match.

I am 70% of the way through a 'big mod' of a 'cheapie' 1000mm F-15, fitting retracts and larger power system. Shoe horning it all in.... and it got put aside because working it all out has been tedious and boring really - compared to other aircraft in construction, and flying working ones! But that is what I would do to the 1000mm F-22 if I got that for a scale match.
Though as mentioned, it isn't a lot of fun modding aircraft with overly limited space in them.

And if I wanted a 'proper good one', LOL, I would get either the FlyFly (but their stuff is pretty bland and lack lustre) or that composite twin (yuk) 70mm. Hmmm... I would pick the Fly Fly!

If HobbyKing had the FlyFly F-22 it would be about $115 to $120 !! (local) and I would grab that in the blink of an eye! They have a few of the FlyFly's (Mirage, F-100, MB339) but not the F-22 !!! BAH. And when I last looked (ages ago) I think I had to pay at least that sort of $189 even from any Asian online shops. All the FlyFly stuff looks "$115 value" sort of area to me, LOL, so I wouldn't like to pay $189 (or more). Their stuff is made in an interesting mix of 'most simplistic, and as cheap bits as possible' but the end result still looks good and does its job. But FMS, Starmax, Freewing etc are miles better stuff - and also cost linearly more for that too I guess.
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 03:02 PM
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PeterVRC gave me an idea of a RAM AIR scoop of a '70s Suzuki 180cc motorcycle I used to own. We'll see if it helps to keep the ESC cool perhaps tomorrow weather permitting. Material used is a thin, pliable sheet of balsa wood.




Wide edge below should have been closer to 3.5 inches I think but it seems to work

Painted but not glued in yet


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Old Jul 07, 2012, 05:38 PM
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This was posted before and the following is purely for entertainment value and not to continue or prolong an agonizing aimless conversation.
SU-35BM 900 series that this models is copied from. Yes they do all that in real life!
Keep in mind the camera is at a fixed location so you have a ref of travel from the cameras position and the clouds in the back ground.

Су-35 МАКС 2011 Su-35 MAKS 2011 (11 min 30 sec)
MAKS 2011 Su-35 piloted by Bogdan (4 min 53 sec)
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 06:11 PM
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Max, I'm with you that it must be able to do those maneuvers but Peter is right that you can't find a single video of the 35 performing frolov's chakra and kulbit. I guess the next MAKS will clear it out ^^

The maneuvers we're talking 'bout,as posted earlier:
KULBIT Frolov chakra (2 min 18 sec)


And yes, I too prefer a single 90mm over 2x 70mm but it'd be a little troubling to power a Su-alike airframe with a single EDF90, wouldn't it?

OMG URRL, I don't want to shame your work but that mod is heresy!
It will create a HUGE amount of drag, don't get me wrong, but it looks pretty horrible destroying the Sukhoi's aesthetics and I don't think it will guarantee any superior cooling. It could actually create a 'bag' of air that ain't flowing correctly thus making the exceeding air pass over the wood and not contributing to cool the ESCs.
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 07:15 PM
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For esc cooling I cut an outlet at the rear of the esc cable channel cover allowing the scoops to drag air in and to exhaust via the channel end outlet. I have the inlet fins facing forward to scoop the air into the channel across the heat sinks.
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 08:15 PM
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Yup some planes/airframes aren't ment to have single fans. I wouldn't mind the su35 with twin 90mm.
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 08:45 PM
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Some day...

BTW, new video incoming!

I've been working on hardcore post-stall maneuvers and got something pretty close to a kulbit, loosing forward motion only in the last moment of the maneuver.

Tomorrow will post it ^^

Cheers!
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 08:48 PM
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I agree it's heresy but I doubt anyone on the airfield will notice it.
I'm gonna test it anyway. Ram Air baby, yeah!
Just hope it doesn't ram into the ground like my other one.

On a different note I notice this thing takes a looooong time to stop during a landing. The landing gear are the best I've seen, so good in fact a gentle breeze will start the jet rolling off the prep table if it is without a battery. Wonder if there is a way to get some friction into those wheels. Maybe I can invent another ugly gadget for it and get banned from this thread. I also happen to have two 90mm fans with the 1900kv motors installed. I'm eying the Su-35. Just need another Castle Ice 100 amp. Hmmm...
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Old Jul 07, 2012, 10:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urrl View Post
. I'm eying the Su-35. Just need another Castle Ice 100 amp. Hmmm...
Actually it's a Su37 twin 90mm.

But wish they had a twin 90mm Su35 that wasn't composite and rather foamie. Come on freewing!

I thought about that Su37 composite twin 90mm, but read the thread and it changed my mined.
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 12:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by urrl View Post
...Ram Air baby, yeah! ...
This may or may not apply but a standard practise for air flow is the exhaust area be 120% of the intake. So by having the ram scoop so large, even with the EDF creating some suction, the air tends to dam and slow. It may work but its also working against your drive system burning amps quicker with less speed with an air break hanging out the entire flight.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SU-4ever
Max, I'm with you that it must be able to do those maneuvers but Peter is right that you can't find a single video of the 35 performing frolov's chakra and kulbit. I guess the next MAKS will clear it out ...
I'm not chasing that tail. He said a great many ...... things to only finally be convinced with YouTube video; I'll only believe it when I see it. When Sukhoi say its more manueverable, why would I question them. And you understand the dynamics that as the canards passes into the stall, it's not what carries it through the manuever. You see them sit pitched down throughout the rotation. But the SU-35s 16% more thrust from the new 117S engines, the improved TV, the FCS, rudders and less weight to throw around should make that manuever well within reach.
The F-22 is on record performing the Kulbit, all be it a little slower and it has no canards.
If the stories are true Frolov started this during a gloves off demo in the middle east, went into a "Pugachev's Cobra" and kept going while up against the 30MKI. Either way from this you see them now performing an extreme cobra with a roll and 180 rotation to allow the manuever, evade and re-acquire to go quicker.
The SU-35 demonstrated repeatedly doing this one thing that others can't; Cobra and YAW out of fire and acquire.The F-22 only has differential thrust to YAW where as the SU-35 has directional TV YAW and differential thrust.

But ya ya less talk more video.......
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 12:14 AM
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Originally Posted by v8truckin View Post
Actually it's a Su37 twin 90mm.

But wish they had a twin 90mm Su35 that wasn't composite and rather foamie. Come on freewing!

I thought about that Su37 composite twin 90mm, but read the thread and it changed my mined.
I'd like to see like the scratch guys do a glass foam combo to keep it light but strong. 2 oz glass fuse supported by a foam skeleton, foam flight surfaces with glass LE and TEs. That's a whole other animal though.

I thought about the twin 90 as well but one reason I like foam is it doesn't cost as much once you crash them. And its big enough that I can't bring the rest of my planes to the field. The Freewing size is just about right. maybe just a little larger to support heavier gear and battery. But what I really want is a PAKFA T50 AKA SU-50.
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 12:28 AM
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Yeah URRL... DONT do that, LOL.

The cooling is not an issue when it is flying. Not even that bad when it is on the ground, and even at that time your 'air ram' won't help either. As long as the ground times are just taxiing, and not like WOT runs across grass, that can't get of fthe ground due to the low speed, LOL.

It needs the airflow to be linked to the motor speed, because that is when it will be generating more heat - at higher motor RPM.... which is of course directly linked to the resultant ducting airflow you get, so nothing can beat having it in the duct airflow (just the heatsink edge flush inside there). It will even cool it when stationery then.

That pic of your air ram is a LOT of frontal area that will be a notable amount of drag. And it might even adversely affect flight, seeing it is a little bit under the CG point I would think.
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 12:43 AM
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I was amazed (surprised) by the F-22 capabilities in videos! Not quite up to the Su, but it still did tons of manouevers that must be harder for it. Remembering they only have vertical TV too (though that still gives TV split up/down ability, if they employ/program that).

I would think that when you have a computer system, plus all the required controls (TV, huge tailerons etc) and an array of required sensors, AND the programming to do it, you can get them to do almost 'anything'. The main difference between aircraft, and variants, is how much their control surfaces can do. If they do "less" then the manouever will be 'longer', slower, elongated, and some manouevers won't even be fully possible to do properly or at all.
There would be a LOT of variation that comes just from the firmware/programming.... whether they make the effort, know how to, or even can work out how to, come up with the required programming. That aspect alone could massively change what one aircraft can do versus another.... ignoring the other, just as important, hardware aspects.

The F-22 does a very good job it seems. As far as I can see it does the job(s), but just costs too much and has crucial bugs too.

...
I decided that the FlyFly wins my 'F-22 provider' competition, so they will get the contract, LOL.
Now I have to find which supplier gets that part of the job.....
PS: I found a supplier that can do any Topgun/FlyFly plane for $122 delivered..... but you have to buy FIVE !! (all to the same country too). sigh. I ordered just the one, for $158 delivered. I already have all the electronics/power stuff for it anyway (CS12.... too many CS12's... retracts etc).

And for the Su, I am getting 2.2Kg sustained thrust from my alloy CS10 project (one fan unit), but costing 67A (6S). So 134Amps will get 3.5mins from 8000mAH for a pair..... well, that is not with management, but I never count that because I am an Amp Hog when flying anyway! I will call it "4 minutes". And it will be around 3600g AUW, maybe a bit more.
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 08:05 AM
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I flew with my RAM AIR system this morning. The thing flew so well, high speed passes, inverted, loops and no ESC overheating. perhaps no one noticed that the scoop was not closed off at the end but there is a hole where the air can escape.


My first flight went so well I lost track of the time and over 5 minutes so the motors died. I expected some kind of warning but there was none so i had to land in grass. I flew 4 more flights with 5000 mAh batteries and no overheating. What is so great about this jet is how easily it floats to a landing. Anyway I pointed the RAM AIR scoop out to a fellow pilot and he mentioned it looked like the jet came that way. So a $1 piece of balsa wood solved my problem and I see no reason to remove it. For me it was a quick and easy fix and I cannot tell any decrease in maneuverability, seriously. Hope to post some videos soon and hope no one throws up when "THE SCOOP" comes into view.

Happy flying guys!
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Old Jul 08, 2012, 08:17 AM
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The promised vid ^^

SU-35 14th to 16th (11 min 3 sec)


Cheers!
Jandro.
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