HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Apr 17, 2012, 08:20 AM
Flying Hazard
SU-4ever's Avatar
Spain
Joined May 2006
2,679 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeterVRC View Post
[...] "Wow, what a great looking plane! Wow, the landing gear is complex and realistic! Umm, what the heck is that mutant thing in the cockpit???"
Hahahahahahaaha, yeah, good point there!
I'm considering removing mine rather than painting it.

At last i've finished my tests so I'll be back working on the jets soon.

Hopefully more vids for this weekend!
SU-4ever is offline Find More Posts by SU-4ever
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Apr 17, 2012, 08:24 AM
Should've, Would've, Could've
v8truckin's Avatar
United States, CA
Joined Dec 2010
6,573 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maxthrottle View Post

no bashing of the V8s.... mind you it should trim out just fine and can be tamed with Expo or linkage setup. Did you try those and still didn't like it? Just curious... not suggesting to fly out of your comfort zone.
I fly with expo @ 30%, but for 165mm cg I moved the expo up to 50% and didn't help, so maybe I needed to go up more? Or just get used to it. No I didn't play with the linkages I figured expo would do the trick, boy was I wrong lol!
v8truckin is online now Find More Posts by v8truckin
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 08:52 AM
Registered User
Australia, VIC, Melbourne
Joined Nov 2006
10,644 Posts
I use very little expo on anything I have (eg 10% to 15%). The problem with expo is that whilst you get useful centre area ease, you get dramatically touchy mid-throw onwards. So the sensitivity after crossing a certain point becomes hairier.... and hairier!
If the plane does ok on it I use 0% if possible! The closer to linear control the better.
PeterVRC is offline Find More Posts by PeterVRC
RCG Plus Member
Old Apr 17, 2012, 10:18 AM
Should've, Would've, Could've
v8truckin's Avatar
United States, CA
Joined Dec 2010
6,573 Posts
So should I have increased or decreased expo?
v8truckin is online now Find More Posts by v8truckin
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 02:07 PM
You are a "go" for reentry
Maxthrottle's Avatar
High Orbit.....
Joined Jun 2009
6,329 Posts
Well Pete's right where if you can do without expo then try to; which is why I raised the linkage setup as the first step.

I've also said re expo either have very little or go a lot to avoid the sudden transition that Pete's referring to.
FW likely had it at 30% because of their setup and catering to a certain range of flier and basic 7 channel radio.

This is one of the areas where and why radio makers added the curves to work with expo..... But its also why as radio makers comment that the added features are only as good as their weakest link. If the linkage setup limits what the radio can do then you kinda have to live with your setup choice.

That's why I wrote FW to provide some clearity to their site or manual on this because I believe many following the high ratio setup may run into more unnecessary issues, like servos being steppy, less stick resolution, straining their likely lower quality 17g servo and an even twitchier (as CHN made comment to in his video) full moving stab control causing pitchup, trim control concerns that some EDF pilots often start believing that full moving stabs or EDFs are more of a challenge than they actually are. And as this thread started CG also was a concern. Coupling this with a high ratio setup and you have a recipe for setting up a handful that only very nose heavy might dampen.

They replied back in short... Pilots choice. I invited them to join the thread and view if some of the concerns might warrent expressing some option but I haven't heard from them since.

Oh well... Guess I'm just a nut bar with too much time on my hands.

Either way this is a beautiful looking model regardless of what you do with it.
Maxthrottle is online now Find More Posts by Maxthrottle
RCG Plus Member
Old Apr 17, 2012, 02:29 PM
Ugly planes do not fly
_Sergey_'s Avatar
USA, GA, Alpharetta
Joined Mar 2007
1,689 Posts
I've been reading this thread for a couple of days and found it very valuable resource. I got the plane and 4.5Ah battery yesterday. I've been waiting for a good VT model to do some experimenting with stability controls and using microcontrollers for other programming things this plane can do. But first things first. I am starting with dynamic balancing of stock EDF units and setting up basic controls.

Do you guys have recommendations on control throws? Especially elevators?
_Sergey_ is offline Find More Posts by _Sergey_
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 02:31 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Lancaster
Joined Feb 2012
201 Posts
oh boy.. here goes.....
Edwards Rc is offline Find More Posts by Edwards Rc
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 02:40 PM
Registered User
Canada, AB, Calgary
Joined Oct 2010
230 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by v8truckin View Post
I fly with expo @ 30%, but for 165mm cg I moved the expo up to 50% and didn't help, so maybe I needed to go up more? Or just get used to it. No I didn't play with the linkages I figured expo would do the trick, boy was I wrong lol!
When I feel the plane is too touchy - I decrease throws. Often it happens with EDFs with full wing ailerons. On one of my 64mm ones I couldn't even fly with recommended setup - plane was constantly spinning one or other direction. After crash set maximum travel to 30% and it became easy to control. You can always increase it later after getting comfortable or switch to dual rates. The only thing I keep max throw is elevator up.
Sockrat is offline Find More Posts by Sockrat
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 03:43 PM
Ugly planes do not fly
_Sergey_'s Avatar
USA, GA, Alpharetta
Joined Mar 2007
1,689 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwards Rc View Post
oh boy.. here goes.....
It's that bad, huh?
_Sergey_ is offline Find More Posts by _Sergey_
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 03:47 PM
You are a "go" for reentry
Maxthrottle's Avatar
High Orbit.....
Joined Jun 2009
6,329 Posts
Directly out of a JR TX setup for flight modes

Source JR TX manual on Flight modes, D/R and Expo.

For example, letís consider a jet aircraft and how Flight
Modes might be used to make the pilotís job easier. The
jet will utilize 3 Flight Modes - 1 for takeoffs, 1 for flying
at high speed and 1 for landing.
During takeoff, full control deflections are desired, with a
moderate amount of Exponential to assist in rotation and
control of the aircraft at takeoff speed. Steering should
have a lot of Exponential to avoid over-steering during
the takeoff roll. So for the 1st Flight Mode (FM0), Dual
Rates and Exponential curves are set for Ailerons and
Elevator to allow adequate control for rotation and control
at takeoff speed
, while a high percentage of Exponential
is set for the rudder/steering to help prevent over-steering
during take off. If the aircraft is equipped with 3 position
Flaps (Retracted, Take-off position and Landing position),
the Take-off flap position can be assigned to only the 1st
Flight Mode to assist in takeoff. There may also be a Gyro
attached to the steering/rudder and the Gyro gain can be
turned-on and associated with the Take-Off Flight Mode
to assist in keeping the aircraft straight during the takeoff
roll.
For normal flight at higher speeds, the 2nd Flight Mode
(FM1) would be set up to have quite a bit of Exponential
and perhaps reduced control rates on all control surfaces
because a lot less control deflection is required
at
high speeds. The retracted flap position would also be
assigned to this Flight Mode and the Gyro gain could be
reduced or turned-off.
For landing, the 3rd Flight Mode (FM2) would be set
up to use full control throws with a moderate to high
degree of Exponential to smoothly control
the jet at lower
landing speeds and again have a lot of Exponential on
the rudder to prevent over-steering upon the landing/roll
out. A couple of program mixes can be set up to bring
in some Up-Elevator to make the jet assume a positive
angle of attack, and to deploy the speed brakes. The
two mixers can then be assigned only to the 3rd Flight
Mode for landings. The Landing flap position can also be
associated with the 3rd or Landing Flight Mode and the
Gyro gain can again be turned-on to assist in a straight
roll-out during landing.

Jason Cole also made these same comments about needing more throw for jets in slower modes of flight, [landing, slow fly bys, in field manuevering and 3D]. Again simply because without wash as a jet slows it requires more throw to maintain control.
So limiting your throws is done with caution and if setup correctly, a pilot will likely find it easier not to over steer with conscious effort than to keep flipping back and forth between rate modes as you go from from fast to slow and fast again.

Still its pilots choice but this is what they recommend.
Maxthrottle is online now Find More Posts by Maxthrottle
RCG Plus Member
Old Apr 17, 2012, 04:00 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Lancaster
Joined Feb 2012
201 Posts
Well there goes my set ups.. I set my 3 dual rates to increase throws the higher the setting.. I like the idea of setting up flight modes.. but I would be lost in radio hell trying to do this...

But lets try...

Max, I assume it would be best to copy my current model to another position to play with ..

Using the new model position, do I start with the mix set up, using Fmode as master, then add in the other surfaces... I know. sorry newbie question.. but this is pretty advanced stuff, yet somthing alot of us should learn for the future to get the most our of our (in my case) spectrum radio..

Maybe this is worthy of a new thread...
Edwards Rc is offline Find More Posts by Edwards Rc
Last edited by Edwards Rc; Apr 17, 2012 at 04:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 04:19 PM
You are a "go" for reentry
Maxthrottle's Avatar
High Orbit.....
Joined Jun 2009
6,329 Posts
No, Not really. See, I've heard the wide range of advice from the clubs, distributors and forums where some of the understandings are directly the opposite of what top ranking competitors, Radio makers etc advise. This often gave me unnecessary headaches though advise was well intentioned.

After trying both you start to realize there is a lot of opinion out there that doesn't always give the full breath of what some of those recommendations might mean and why or when they may be useful and that they don't apply to all setups.

My effort isn't to instrut... just advise... I've watched V8 enjoy his model immensely regardless of how he set it up. I may guess why he has issue with something so I offer what and why the front line designers and pilots have said where clearly it works for them obviously for some reasons....Its not about being right its about conveying with credible reasons why or why not. Unfortunately it bumps into sometimes dispelling myths.

I take no credit for any of the information that I'm parroting. I just Borg all this stuff from these guys after really try to understanding the why physics behind it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwards Rc View Post
oh boy.. here goes.....
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Sergey_ View Post
It's that bad, huh?
Maxthrottle is online now Find More Posts by Maxthrottle
RCG Plus Member
Old Apr 17, 2012, 04:27 PM
You are a "go" for reentry
Maxthrottle's Avatar
High Orbit.....
Joined Jun 2009
6,329 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwards Rc View Post
Well there goes my set ups.. I set my 3 dual rates to increase throws the higher the setting.. I like the idea of setting up flight modes.. but I would be lost in radio hell trying to do this...
Ya that's what I was originally taught decades ago also and the manufacturers often instruct the setup that way. My guess is to just make it simpler to not frustrate the client and get them flying especially if they have a lower end radio with less options (though the manual had a 9X). But I know top 3D or precision pilots don't set their stuff up in such a rudimentary way. It depends on what they are flying and how they are flying it.
In answer to your add on questions, wait till you try setting up a Heli for 3D with a JR/Spektrum radio. But yes experiment with another entirely new and separate setup and Fmode is from the initial setup screen where you choose which switch selects FM and you set D/R to FM. You at this stage would also set TRIM to COM. Pull out the manual since its all actually in there. There is an entire forum let alone thread for this kind of question. Or its for the threads for your exact radio though pretty much all radios follow similar setups.
Maxthrottle is online now Find More Posts by Maxthrottle
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by Maxthrottle; Apr 17, 2012 at 08:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 04:38 PM
Registered User
United States, CA, Lancaster
Joined Feb 2012
201 Posts
Your posts are always welcomed by me, Max... even if my head is exploding... part of the learning curve... I just "thought" I was further along that scale than I am.... and now I'm getting ready to go fly advanced TV EDF's.... I'm getting cold feet on this one, and may wait to finish my A10 where I was once more comfortable... I'd hate to make a smoking hole on the first flight with the SU35...
Edwards Rc is offline Find More Posts by Edwards Rc
Reply With Quote
Old Apr 17, 2012, 04:59 PM
You are a "go" for reentry
Maxthrottle's Avatar
High Orbit.....
Joined Jun 2009
6,329 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Edwards Rc View Post
Your posts are always welcomed by me, Max... even if my head is exploding... part of the learning curve... I just "thought" I was further along that scale than I am.... and now I'm getting ready to go fly advanced TV EDF's.... I'm getting cold feet on this one, and may wait to finish my A10 where I was once more comfortable... I'd hate to make a smoking hole on the first flight with the SU35...
Please no accolades, I'm just a kook with a few too many planes. We've all been where you are at some point.

Don't let cold feet hold you back.... that's what buddy box cables are for. Just have an experienced flier take over if you're having any concern.... Once in the air at least you'll know if its a handful for you or not. But if you've been flying for a while that can be more the voice in your head looking at the negative rather than looking at discerning and understanding the line of control.

Do your homework and just be determined to jump in once you have a good idea what to expect and what to and not to do.
Maxthrottle is online now Find More Posts by Maxthrottle
RCG Plus Member
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion LX F-35 Vs Freewing F-35 Mmarshall Foamy EDFs 17 Jul 09, 2014 06:49 AM
Found SU-34 Freewing lw777pilot Aircraft - Electric - Jets (FS/W) 1 Dec 15, 2013 01:25 PM
New Product Brand New SU-35! 70x2,TV and made by Freewing!Update:Worldwide Availability neversommer Foamy EDFs 593 Jan 09, 2012 09:02 PM
For Sale Freewing SU-34 stock battery - Brand New JGuilty13 Aircraft - Electric - Batteries & Chargers (FS/W) 0 Nov 29, 2011 02:01 PM
For Sale Freewing SU-34 stock battery JGuilty13 Aircraft - Electric - Jets (FS/W) 0 Nov 29, 2011 10:29 AM