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Old Feb 23, 2012, 03:38 PM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
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Hi Guizzo

Like the pilot, and the pets! Yes, with the water based polyurethane the tissue does go much more translucent than it does with nitrate dope, but it is an effect that I rather like with most vintage airframes (although not with my latest Mamba as it is a "jet" type and I felt the nitrate gave a more appropriate finish).

I am surprised that you were able to separate the tissue and mylar so easily; as I showed on the test frame in the Bantam thread, pulling the tissue just pulled the mylar off as well, this was after two coats of varnish though. I have been flying the Bantam for seven months now and the similarly finished Tom Tit for four or five, they have both done a lot of flying and there is no sign of any problem with the covering.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancer View Post
Yes, with the water based polyurethane the tissue does go much more translucent than it does with nitrate dope, but it is an effect that I rather like with most vintage airframes (although not with my latest Mamba as it is a "jet" type and I felt the nitrate gave a more appropriate finish).

I am surprised that you were able to separate the tissue and mylar so easily; as I showed on the test frame in the Bantam thread, pulling the tissue just pulled the mylar off as well, this was after two coats of varnish though. I have been flying the Bantam for seven months now and the similarly finished Tom Tit for four or five, they have both done a lot of flying and there is no sign of any problem with the covering.
It's easy to understand why you applied white esaky over Mylar first and then a second layer of colored tissue on your Bantam! I was thinking to do the same on my C.C. but I’m a bit concerned about the final weight of the model which has a quite wide fuselage. I'd like to stay under 450 g. but I guess it could be a bit heavier; not too bad considering the effective wing load in a canard model though, but I guess I could save a bit of weight using polyspan alone and, at the same time, have the semi-transparent covering I was looking for.
Definitely my concerns for the the bond among Mylar and tissue was just marginal; I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem for the entire lifespan of the model, since the balsa-Mylar bond is even worst using balsaloc. I was just thinking that different brands of polyurethane dope may have a quite different grip on Mylar and you possibly are using one that is better than mine.
I'm quite surprised that water based polyurethane has a more translucent finish compared to nitrate dope! I shall make a test to see the difference; I'm very interested to try the Mylar-tissue covering, providing it gives results similar to the old nitrate dope-over tissue finishing!
Thanks for your prompt reply Sundancer!
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 12:59 PM
I like real wooden aeroplanes!
Sundancer's Avatar
South-west France
Joined Sep 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guizzo 17 View Post
It's easy to understand why you applied white esaky over Mylar first and then a second layer of colored tissue on your Bantam! I was thinking to do the same on my C.C. but I’m a bit concerned about the final weight of the model which has a quite wide fuselage. I'd like to stay under 450 g. but I guess it could be a bit heavier; not too bad considering the effective wing load in a canard model though, but I guess I could save a bit of weight using polyspan alone and, at the same time, have the semi-transparent covering I was looking for.
Definitely my concerns for the the bond among Mylar and tissue was just marginal; I'm sure it wouldn't be a problem for the entire lifespan of the model, since the balsa-Mylar bond is even worst using balsaloc. I was just thinking that different brands of polyurethane dope may have a quite different grip on Mylar and you possibly are using one that is better than mine.
I'm quite surprised that water based polyurethane has a more translucent finish compared to nitrate dope! I shall make a test to see the difference; I'm very interested to try the Mylar-tissue covering, providing it gives results similar to the old nitrate dope-over tissue finishing!
Thanks for your prompt reply Sundancer!
Hi Guizzo

The Bantam was not covered in white first, just the coloured Esaki over the mylar. The Mamba was covered in white first as I wanted to use a particular colour scheme involving white dividing strips. As to weight, the whole of the covering on the Mamba, which is quite a large area, mylar, white tissue, coloured overlays and four coats of thinned dope only added an ounce to the uncovered weight of 16 ounces.
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Old Feb 24, 2012, 11:20 PM
Use your imagination....
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Beautiful, the pilot, cat and dogs....

Cem
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Old Feb 25, 2012, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sundancer View Post
The Bantam was not covered in white first, just the coloured Esaki over the mylar. The Mamba was covered in white first as I wanted to use a particular colour scheme involving white dividing strips.
Oh.. Right! The Mamba of course, not the Bantam!

You’re very kind Cem, thanks a lot!
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Old Mar 13, 2012, 02:03 PM
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Hi Guizzo
Love the model, but the pilot really sets her off!

Where did you get the original plan from? I keep thinking I've seen it before somewhere, but that happens a lot as the years pile up Really must build a canard one day!

Regards
Dereck
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Old Mar 13, 2012, 04:29 PM
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Thanks Derek! The first time I saw my duck wasn't very far from here!
See post #7173 in Vintage & Old-Timer Plans tread
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Old Mar 13, 2012, 06:16 PM
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Thank you, Guizzo, checked it out.

Real easy to make it to whatever size is fancied!

BTW - if you want to learn lots about canards, have you read this thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ghlight=canard

Possibly more than many of us need! But real good info and some very knowlegable contributors though, if you don't already read this thread

D
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Old Mar 14, 2012, 05:03 PM
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Thanks so much Derek for showing where the canard thread is! I knew it was in RC Groups but I wasn't able to retrieve it!
It's a very interesting thread and I guess I’ll post there a link to my thread.
Beg your pardon but I've been a bit busy so the pictures I promised will be posted ASAP
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Old Mar 15, 2012, 01:16 PM
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Beautifully done ! Thats an brilliant way of attaching a canopy

Owl
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 10:18 AM
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I appreciate Owl!

I went ahead another bit. I covered the elevators, ailerons and rudders with paper. I used Hallmark “papier de soie” tissue. I like this paper albeit requires a bit more attention while applying since it shrinks more and has shorter fibers than Esaky, but the final result is definitely pleasant!
I like threaded hinges and I did them on the wing tip mounted rudders. I installed a torsion bar on each rudder for I want only the inward turn rudder to move. The torsion bar is a 8cm long piano wire with a diameter of 0.5mm.
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Old Mar 17, 2012, 09:53 AM
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Good to see that you glued the sewn hinge thread into the control surfaces.

Many years ago, I built a 'pseudo vintage' tailless model and stitch hinged the elevons. I didn't glue the thread in at all. After a couple of minutes on what looked like a good first flight - it was my own design and thus I didn't know how the model would fly - the elevons slipped around on those thread hinges. They both moved under the wing bottom surface, which deprived the model of not only pitch and roll control, but the essential upwards reflex it needed to fly level in pitch.

There wasn't much left after it dived into the ground.

Your rudders are not going to do anything like that. Will be interesting to see how they work on outwards movement only.

Lovely workmanship on your model too.

Regards

Dereck
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Old Mar 17, 2012, 04:33 PM
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What a pity Derek!
I remember that something similar happened to me with a C/L model. I made the hinges with a cotton band.
I did glue the band but I soaked it and the band became brittle! I let you imagine what happened after few flights!
Oh well! It was many many years ago!
For what concerns my rudders, if you go to post #8, you’ll see the central servo in the wing that will be connected to the rudders via thread.
When the servo rotates, it pulls one thread while the second thread slackens so, only the rudder connected to the first thread may deflect. Once the servo returns in the neutral position, the torsion bar realigns the rudder with the fin.
Hope I made myself understood, anyway I'll show how it works as soon as I finish the wing. It won't be in few days though since it's time for a sidetrack.
The weather is good now and the temperature allows me to stay outside and use my airbrush to paint a GWS Zero I restored this winter.
Thanks again, Derek!
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