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Old Mar 03, 2012, 11:34 PM
Semper Fidelis
Big Gas's Avatar
United States, CA, Redlands
Joined Jul 2005
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Don't know of anyone doing a rudder here in Socal. I know of some on an ocelot which would work similar.

Ballast tube thoughts!
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Old Mar 04, 2012, 12:15 AM
Dang!....What else did I bring
oletimer's Avatar
Orange County, S. Cal
Joined Oct 2009
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You tell us?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jimbo320 View Post
Guys, I have one if these shortlisted for general slope abuse.

Has anyone fitted a rudder?
Does a ballast tube fit ok? What's the AUW with lead slugs approx?

I'm thinking of the flapperon version, interested in the landing challenge

Thanks,

Jimbo.
Hey Jimbo;

You guys over there have had this plave long before we did! I think they call it the flying fish over there.
From what I hear, they are well liked and used there. I have my build after Jordans that I just used a heavier PVC ballast tube, but I have not balanced it with all the steel weights in it yet. My Dry weight is like 32 oz, but think I can get her close to 60. However Jordan was flying his unballasted in winds up near 40+ and no issues with it at all. Did say when he put more weight in it, it smoothed out some and great energy retention.

Oletimer/Jeff
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Old Mar 04, 2012, 01:58 AM
Rotozuk's Avatar
United States, CA, Novato
Joined Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Gas View Post
Don't know of anyone doing a rudder here in Socal. I know of some on an ocelot which would work similar.

Ballast tube thoughts!
Yep, that is the same issue we ran into.. The fuse has a TON on space for ballast, but the tube length is limited by the canopy opening.

Makes me think about large diameter tube in shorter lengths. But we found we could get in a longer tube then the 2 meter Typhoon carries, so were happy.

The Genesis can be built to around 30 oz RTF depending on your gear. Mine will probably be a bit heavier with metal servos and ballast tube. I'm planning to use a simple square AA battery pack that fits the nose well.

Simple is good.

-Wayne
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Old Mar 04, 2012, 02:56 AM
Silent Flight
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United States, CA, Cypress
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Gas View Post
Don't know of anyone doing a rudder here in Socal. I know of some on an ocelot which would work similar.

Ballast tube thoughts!
Hey John, I haven't unwrapped my Genesis yet and don't have your ballast tube to give it a try, but would it be at all possible to cut the ballast tube in half then insert each half separately and then "repair" or reconnect the tube once it's in? A bit of a hassle, but would that theoretically allow you to get it in there? I can't imagine not wanting to take full advantage of all the space that is available in there for ballast.

-Jonathan
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Old Mar 04, 2012, 03:22 AM
Rotozuk's Avatar
United States, CA, Novato
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Or do a flexible ballast tube..

You go to the hardware store and buy some big vinyl hose. You plug one end, fill with lead, plug the other end, and off that plug is a mounting tab you can screw down. You slip this tube into the fuse and screw it down onto a bulkhead mounted up front. Done right you get a perfect ballance as you measured to make sure the ballast load is centered on your CG. You set up several tubes with different weight loads. Remember to keep the load centered on the CG.

The rubber thick wall vinyl helps keep the loose end from bouncing around too much. Size the tube diameter so it fits kind of snug into the fuse.

Note - This method requires you to protect your elevator pushrod!! Golden rod or something similar glued to one side should be fine. You will also want something to keep the tube away from the wing wires.

I reserve this method for tight planes like Spiders and Speedos more then something like a Genesis. Just thought I'd share it.. I think this method could allow the Genesis to hold a massive load.. Probably more then it should carry!

-Wayne
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Old Mar 04, 2012, 11:30 PM
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United States, CA, Novato
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Excellent work!

How about some pics of your flap servo at neutral and at full.

-Wayne
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Old Mar 05, 2012, 03:11 AM
Dang!....What else did I bring
oletimer's Avatar
Orange County, S. Cal
Joined Oct 2009
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Ballast

You will only need behind the CG the same + a little more for plug... that is in front of CG! Otherwise you will be tail heavy... unless you waste space by putting a dead wood plug till CG is right! No need to go nutz with full fuse ballast when she will not handle it and plane would not fly!
I don't know, but I am liking the PVC thing. Uber stiff and fairly light... but fat so my RCRCM ballast will work great!
Maybe Tuesday will be the day I can fly her all ballasted up I gotta say I am a bit nervous here! Heavy planes and non-perfect landings always spell trouble!
When you plan on maindening her John?

Jeff
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Old Mar 05, 2012, 10:32 AM
Semper Fidelis
Big Gas's Avatar
United States, CA, Redlands
Joined Jul 2005
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Cg

What's the consensus on CG?

Is everyone happy with 91mm back from LE?
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Old Mar 05, 2012, 11:36 AM
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United States, CA, Novato
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John,

Consider laying the elevator servo on it's side on top of the ballast tube. There is plenty of room and it will be out of the way of loading ballast. I'd still suggest a full tray in the nose as it adds considerable strength to any plane with a big opening.

I'll be going with copper sleeves with lead in them. You get more weight then steel and the copper keeps them clean. Not sure what size your tube is though..

-Wayne
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Old Mar 05, 2012, 01:12 PM
Silent Flight
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United States, CA, Cypress
Joined Jul 2005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rotozuk View Post
John,

Consider laying the elevator servo on it's side on top of the ballast tube. There is plenty of room and it will be out of the way of loading ballast. I'd still suggest a full tray in the nose as it adds considerable strength to any plane with a big opening.

I'll be going with copper sleeves with lead in them. You get more weight then steel and the copper keeps them clean. Not sure what size your tube is though..

-Wayne
Wayne, whats the 411 on the ballast tubes Shadow was going to be making? Any prototypes made yet? How much weight was the system able to deliver? I really wonder about the length of the tube and the blind nutt being the deciding factor of how long a ballast tube can go in and really how tough it would be to glass together two clean cut halves once they are inside the fuse... By having a longer tube, not only would you be able to add in more ballast but you would also extend it further into the canopy area and give more room for the elevator servo to sit on top of the tube if you go with your idea.

-Jonathan

DISCLAIMER: Above poster is a novice builder at best. All ideas and concepts recommended by said poster should be taken with a grain of salt, two Advil, and an aspirin between your knees.
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Old Mar 05, 2012, 01:33 PM
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You can get plenty on length into the plane as is. I do not see any need to to go great lengths to fit a longer tube. As it is, we can fit a longer tube into this 60" plane then my 2 meter plane can fit. So I can carry more weight in this smaller plane.. Don't go getting greedy on the ballast load.

Spreading the ballast over to long a tub could make the plane a little less snappy on the elevator. Don't want to take the fun factor out of this very fun plane!

Shadow did make several prototypes. He has one of them fit in his Genesis. I need to roll one for myself, and sounds like you would like one also. Shadow is officially out of the airplane business as his new job zaps all of his energy. I'll take some pics of the process so others can duplicate if they like. Or do as Jeff and use some PVC.

-Wayne
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Old Mar 05, 2012, 01:48 PM
Silent Flight
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Thanks for keeping me in check Wayne. My lack of skills and understanding do not always sufficiently suppress my eagerness to try and find creative solutions to things. Since John sounded a bit disappointed he couldn't get the entire length of this tube into the fuse, I figured this was a time for creativity.

About the weight though, my only comparison would be my Speedo which I stuffed 23oz of ballast in (35oz AUW) and flew at Fermin in only 16mph winds and it flew like a cat out of the bag. Thinking that BB and Fermin can reach wind Speeds of 40+ I can't imagine not wanting to have the potential to add as much as a plane could hold. Of course the Speedo and Genesis are two very different cats and I imagine the Genesis has a much better penetration and would need less weight.

-Jonathan
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Old Mar 05, 2012, 02:12 PM
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Orange County, CA
Joined Oct 2009
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I would just add that I've flown light planes, and I've flown heavy planes. All in all, while weight does have its place, light planes fly better.
Dave
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