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Old Dec 19, 2011, 03:28 PM
Just Stab It In
Bangalow,Australia
Joined Aug 2008
1,322 Posts
The gyro's just take the fun and the skill out of DS.

On board speed, altitude and voltage would be great though.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 04:49 PM
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Daemon's Avatar
Lakewood, Colorado
Joined Aug 2002
28,478 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by airtimeasto View Post
The gyro's just take the fun and the skill out of DS.
Having a particular nasty groove ("rabbit air" as you guys call it) splat your plane into
the ground kinda takes the fun out of DS too.

And as with any other pilot aid, the skill comes from maximizing its potential.
If I flew exactly the same lines and speeds and quality air with a gyro as without,
then there wouldn't be much point in it. Flying rough air, lower and faster, is
where it's at.

ian
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 06:48 PM
JWs are Shear Fun!
Aerogance's Avatar
USA
Joined Sep 2008
2,673 Posts
I look at it like this. The plane will not fly a groove hands-off and will always require a pilot. Not every pilot has surgically precise hands like John and Spencer. If this system can help out the normal pilots, it will be more fun for more people and much safer too. Of course, this system is optional so you certainly don't have to use it if you don't like it.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 08:02 PM
Confirmed Chronic
screamin' eagle's Avatar
Pacific Palisades, CA
Joined Jul 2004
9,224 Posts
I don't think there's anything wrong with using it, although as Ian has done in the past, I think it's appropriate to note on the relevant speed that the plane was gyro-equipped.

I could also see it as a set of "training wheels" - in other words, giving a pilot confidence at higher speeds (whether it be 200, 300, 400) before being removed and then going for a PB without the assistance.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 08:28 PM
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Kahnx's Avatar
Australia, VIC, Hadfield
Joined Mar 2003
2,832 Posts
Horses for Courses, guys.

I have gyros in two planes that I DS:

A Futaba dual channel (351?) in a D60. This allows me to fly rowdy grooves in big winds - for much the same purpose and benefit as Ian does. The real value in this setup is in two situations: 1. First dive into an unknown/rabbit location when the plane is most vulnerable to crashing due to an 'uncommitted entry' (read too shallow bottom turn, get caught in rotor, not enough speed to punch out = dark-side crash) and 2. Landing at unknown/rabbit location with lots of rocks and rowdy air. In both these situations, a gyro gives much greater room for error and can save the plane. Further, in rabbit air, the gyro can make an otherwise tense flight a lot more enjoyable because you are not having to constantly fight the air/plane to keep it on step, thereby increasing confidence, thereby flying a deeper line and getting better speed.

A pair of GWS PG-03's in a glass (flapped) bird. This plane is quite light (~650 grams), with one gyro per aileron. I dont take this plane past 130, partly beccause it just would not survive the abuse, but mostly because it is much more fun to DS acro in light conditions. In really light conditions, you can get the same type of rabbit air where the layer moves around, and at really low speeds you need the plane to be as efficient as possible. The gyros are manual (pot) gain, and I have them set very low, so that even at 'top speed' there's no oscillations. This plane is super fun to fly because you can really throw it around and it maintains its momentum beautifully and makes you look a lot better than you actually are It's my go-to plane for light air.

Both of these planes have flaps, so the 'dual channel' nature of the setups allows for flapperon/butterfly/crow/camber while still retaining gyro stability.

Neither of these planes is for record setting. While the D60 is capable of 250+ for me, if I get conditions that would allow for these speeds, I would not by flying the D60, instead I'd throw out the D80/Smicko/Opus, none of which have, or need gyros.

For me, gyros are a huge benefit - with a demanding full time job, and being a father to young kids, plus supporting other addictions like FPV, I have precious few opportunities to get to DSable slopes, so having gyro equipped planes means that when the chance comes up, I'll have a greater range of suitably equipped planes to fly and have fun.

No need to sh!tcan we who chose to use them - walk in our shoes first.

Cheers

Roger
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 01:58 AM
Where is the inspiration
wdeighton's Avatar
Moira
Joined Feb 2006
786 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
Having a particular nasty groove ("rabbit air" as you guys call it) splat your plane into
the ground kinda takes the fun out of DS too.

ian
Top quote!
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 05:04 AM
Just Stab It In
Bangalow,Australia
Joined Aug 2008
1,322 Posts
Still Cheating with Gyros
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 06:52 AM
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PeteSchug's Avatar
Elmhurst, NY (Queens in NYC)
Joined Apr 2004
7,045 Posts
I stuck a gyro in my video platform a zillion years ago specifacally to smooth out my video.

A very light plane that I flew in all sorts of insane conditions. I still got slammed into the ground a day or two after Ernesto came through.

Gyros help, but they don't fly the plane for you.

Don't knock it till you've tried it.

BTW, it really did help the video!

Pete, east coast non DSer
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 10:34 AM
closed due to popular demand
Joined Jul 2011
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...
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 12:55 PM
More like crunchman....
dsman's Avatar
United Kingdom, Cheshire East
Joined Mar 2007
908 Posts
"....Off the record....." ?
What the.......*&!*+^!?

Why should anyone wish to use a gyro secretively?

What is the big deal?
It's just another piece of kit in our evolving pastime, which individuals can chose to use or elect not do so.

Even if it's fitted, it's not necessary to use it. It can be switched off from the tranny.

Backside sweet? Conditions good & you want to set a record?
- Don't bother to use it.

Backside lousy, everyone else has pulled out rather than risk their planes or create a hazard?
- Use it.

And if a 'record' speed is attained with gyro engaged, post it as "gyro assisted".
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 01:05 PM
Just Stab It In
Bangalow,Australia
Joined Aug 2008
1,322 Posts
I've really hit a nerve here haven't I....Ha Ha Ha

I'm not knocking them I'm just stiring the pot.

Funny to see all the replys.

Next we'll put the auto pilot in the gliders and programing them to do the circles by on there own.

..............Cheaters ................
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 01:23 PM
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Lakewood, Colorado
Joined Aug 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by airtimeasto View Post
Next we'll put the auto pilot in the gliders and programing them to do the circles by on there own.
Pulling that off would be a bigger achievement than flying the same groove by hand.

I'll stop responding to your trolling now.

ian
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 01:24 PM
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daboz's Avatar
HB cali
Joined Apr 2006
4,025 Posts
Air Speed...

Not too long ago at Norco Spencer and I flew Alans D-60 with the telemetry on board. He had a small set of speakers attached to the transmitter. The plane was flying over 250mph for a few laps with a top speed in the 260’s. No gyros but another awesome function was the real time air speed indicator!
For me the insight to the planes “air speed” situation was very enlightening. The speaker system indicated the air speed every few seconds, it was so cool front side or back side. You could hear the increase/decrease in air speed as the plane went around the circuit, the loss of speed as you turned on the front, dives and climbs and so much more. I even hung the plane up high, stabilized it and had a decent reading of the wind speed at a few altitudes above the ridge. An awesome tool for situational awareness! It was nice to confirm that the efficiency or smoothness of the bottom turn was a huge part of what speeds we could acquire from the overall circuit.

Chris
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 01:49 PM
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Daemon's Avatar
Lakewood, Colorado
Joined Aug 2002
28,478 Posts
One thing I've long thought would be interesting with regard to airspeed and DSing, is
to transmit back an audible tone that varied with the rate of increase or decrease
in airspeed (slope of the airspeed curve), rather than indicating absolute airspeed.
It'd sound much like the varios that HG and PG pilots use. You'd get a neutral tone
or silence for any constant airspeed, and frequency of the tone would rise
in proportion to the rate of increase of airspeed, and tone would be low for
falling airspeed. What you should hear in a normal groove is the low falling tone
most of the time, and a sharp high frequency chirp everytime it crossed a shear.

The reason this idea came up, is that I've flown in frontside conditions
in big wing with a mountain in front of us throwing off huge turbulence
and there were times when the plane is smacked around and others when
it's making DS turns out in the middle of the sky as it crosses random shears
created by all that turbulence. If you could detect the shear crossings directly,
then you'd basically just keep flying straight until you hear the high frequency
chirp, and pull hard, rinse, repeat. I've strung together a few of these turns
by accident before, so I can see the potential.

ian
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 09:19 PM
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HiDesertFun's Avatar
Lancaster, CA.
Joined Aug 2009
301 Posts
I have made a correction in my original post about onboard radar. Spencer Opus did not have radar, just telemetry.
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