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Old Dec 18, 2011, 06:13 PM
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HiDesertFun's Avatar
Lancaster, CA.
Joined Aug 2009
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Telemetry,High Speed Dual Axis Gryos and Onboard Radar

With his love of RC Gliders and Electronics. It' a givin that Alan Cocconi is working with DSing top US designers in developing onboard telemetry, radar and 2 axis gyros. Developing his system and writing his own software, he has set up his own JW with telemetry and 2 axis gyros (pitch and roll). Alan had Spencer, Bruce and myself a go at the sticks and enjoyed how smooth his JW flew through the wind sheers on the back side. His telemetry used with the Hitec 9 ch Tx with audio will give you real time air speed and altitude. Complete flight recording also.

Telemetry system:
Airspeed
Altitude
Variometer
Gains
Rx Volts
Ext Volts
Amps, mAh, watt min, watts, 3x temp sensor, input for Radar.

Alan Cocconi
acocconi@acpropulsion.com

Tim
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Last edited by HiDesertFun; Dec 19, 2011 at 01:02 PM.
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Old Dec 18, 2011, 06:34 PM
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andreis's Avatar
Monza, Italy
Joined Dec 2006
129 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by HiDesertFun View Post
With the love of RC Gliders and Electronics. It' a givin that Alan Cocconi is working with DSing top US designers in developing onboard telemetry, radar and 2 axis gyros. Developing his system and writing his own software, he has set up his own JW with telemetry and 2 axis gyros (pitch and roll). Alan had Spencer, Bruce and myself a go at the sticks and enjoyed how smooth his JW flew through the wind sheers on the back side. His telemetry used with the Hitec 9 ch Tx with audio will give you real time air speed and altitude. Complete flight recording also.

Telemetry system:
Airspeed
Altitude
Variometer
Rx Volts
Ext Volts
Amps, mAh, watt min, watts, 3x temp sensor, input for Radar.

Alan Cocconi
acocconi@acpropulsion.com

Tim
Nice !!!

I look forward to have some more details on the radar sensor too.

Antonio.
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Old Dec 18, 2011, 07:12 PM
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HiDesertFun's Avatar
Lancaster, CA.
Joined Aug 2009
300 Posts
Onboard Radar

Well, Alan took the guts out of Stalker Pro's. A, D-130 and an Opus (maybe others to) have been outfitted with this system in the nose. Plugged into the telemetry system gives you real time audio ground speed that is almost identical to ground radar speeds. While activated and glider is static you can wave your hand to and from and you will get a audio reading around 15 to 20 mph. I listened to audio from an Opus going 290+mph at Parker this past week end and D-130 on it's maiden flight

Tim

Sorry Spencer. I made a mistake about onboaed radar on your Opus...
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Last edited by HiDesertFun; Dec 20, 2011 at 09:05 PM. Reason: The Opus did not have onboard radar. Only telementry. My MISTAKE...
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 08:10 AM
More like crunchman....
dsman's Avatar
United Kingdom, Cheshire East
Joined Mar 2007
907 Posts
Very interested to read Alan is using a 2-axis gyro in his JW & that it appears to work a treat, as I've arranged a setup (using Futaba GYA352) I'm in the process of building into an M60.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 10:09 AM
Just chillin @ 403 MPH
Jantar2A's Avatar
Boulder Colorado
Joined Nov 2005
5,202 Posts
not that I don't appreciate advancements in technology but a 2 axis gyro,Might as well sit in a chair with an umbrella drink and put the plane on auto pilot too.

JMHO

Nick
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 10:13 AM
DS Will Change Your Life!
_Sloper's Avatar
Parker Mtn / Valencia, CA
Joined Feb 2006
779 Posts
Alan's new telemetry software is awesome along with the gyro set-up!

Takes a minute to get use to the gyro, but once you got it, it helps you out with all your little mistakes and keeps you grooved smoothly on the backside!!

Best of all, your own personal radar girl has a hot voice from the speaker on the back of the TX that you can clearly hear each lap speed she says!! hahaha!

Now I really want a Aurora!
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 10:21 AM
More like crunchman....
dsman's Avatar
United Kingdom, Cheshire East
Joined Mar 2007
907 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantar2A View Post
not that I don't appreciate advancements in technology but a 2 axis gyro,Might as well sit in a chair with an umbrella drink and put the plane on auto pilot too.

JMHO

Nick
Nick,

First you've got to get to the chair.
If that involves interpreting Futaba gyro instructions, it's a well earned seat
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 10:22 AM
DS Will Change Your Life!
_Sloper's Avatar
Parker Mtn / Valencia, CA
Joined Feb 2006
779 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jantar2A View Post
not that I don't appreciate advancements in technology but a 2 axis gyro,Might as well sit in a chair with an umbrella drink and put the plane on auto pilot too.

JMHO

Nick
lol true that be fun. But hey it might save some people planes!

You still have to put in the work. Could be a good thing to get newbies to learn faster on the backside
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 11:42 AM
More like crunchman....
dsman's Avatar
United Kingdom, Cheshire East
Joined Mar 2007
907 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by _Sloper View Post
lol true that be fun. But hey it might save some people planes!

You still have to put in the work. Could be a good thing to get newbies to learn faster on the backside
+1 to all that (& more).
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 12:39 PM
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Hot Air's Avatar
United Arab Emirates, Dubai
Joined Sep 2009
120 Posts
The use of gyros in DS is very interesting. As the experience of gyro DS'ers increases i'll be interested to learn if anyone starts experiencing PIO's (Pilot Induced Oscillations) when flying in really rough air, whether in DS or turbulence when landing, particularly in AVCS mode.

A PIO could develop, for example, when there is a large disturbance that temporarily overcomes the gyro's immediate influence and causes a visible (uncommanded) roll. The natural instinct of the pilot would be to put in a correction. The gyro meanwhile is also putting in a correction. This causes an over-correction requiring more pilot input to return it to its original flight path.

If more than one large disturbance occurs in short succession, the above scenario could quickly deteriorate into a full-on PIO. The only way to prevent it would be for the pilot to do nothing - but who can do nothing when their plane appears that it might be getting out of control?

It's just a thought and something that could be a potential gotcha for our gyro pioneers to bear in mind if they find themselves experiencing 'wobbly' moments.

Good on ya fellas for exploring the use of gyros.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 12:44 PM
Where is the inspiration
wdeighton's Avatar
Moira
Joined Feb 2006
775 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Air View Post
The use of gyros in DS is very interesting. As the experience of gyro DS'ers increases i'll be interested to learn if anyone starts experiencing PIO's (Pilot Induced Oscillations) when flying in really rough air, whether in DS or turbulence when landing, particularly in AVCS mode.

A PIO could develop, for example, when there is a large disturbance that temporarily overcomes the gyro's immediate influence and causes a visible (uncommanded) roll. The natural instinct of the pilot would be to put in a correction. The gyro meanwhile is also putting in a correction. This causes an over-correction requiring more pilot input to return it to its original flight path.

If more than one large disturbance occurs in short succession, the above scenario could quickly deteriorate into a full-on PIO. The only way to prevent it would be for the pilot to do nothing - but who can do nothing when their plane appears that it might be getting out of control?

It's just a thought and something that could be a potential gotcha for our gyro pioneers to bear in mind if they find themselves experiencing 'wobbly' moments.

Good on ya fellas for exploring the use of gyros.
I always felt my gyro had corrected things way before I even realised anything had happened.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 12:50 PM
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Lakewood, Colorado
Joined Aug 2002
28,395 Posts
I've never seen much use for gyro on pitch axis unless you want to fly with a super
rearward CG, but it's usefulness on roll is undeniable. I've DS conditions with a gyro
in an Outlaw wing, and my D60 that were just impossible to fly otherwise. In normal
conditions, there's no denying that it makes it a lot easier, so I usually find
myself pushing it harder, and flying much closer to the ground. Having flown
my gyro'd 60oz D60 to 260+ and Wizard DSX to 307mph back to back in similar
conditions, I can say that the gyro more or less makes the D60 handle like the
much bigger/heavier plane.

Does Alan's gyro handle flaperons/spoilerons/differential? The ACT Fuzzy SMM and
Futaba GYA351 have single axis gyro, but two inputs and two outputs so they work
with flaperon/spoilerons/differential all without issue. The GYA352 is two axes,
but only one input/output per axes, which means you have to add V-tail/elevon
mixer to work with spoilerons/flaperons and they can't do differential at all.

ian
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 01:04 PM
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Lakewood, Colorado
Joined Aug 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hot Air View Post
The use of gyros in DS is very interesting. As the experience of gyro DS'ers increases i'll be interested to learn if anyone starts experiencing PIO's (Pilot Induced Oscillations) when flying in really rough air, whether in DS or turbulence when landing, particularly in AVCS mode.
Nope. However, gyro induced speed wobbles are possible especially in rate mode, which
is why remote adjustable gain is good, and HH gyro is better. With the old ACT Fuzzy
Pro in my D60 in HH mode, I turn the gain up for launch (great for launching over a cliff in
rowdy air) turn it down a little once it's flying, and then never touch it again. So far
has handled airspeeds from 30-40mph to 260+. The plane feels "locked in" and the
gyro is always working way faster than my fingers. You do have to simply let it do its
job. If the plane gets knocked off angle the gyro will bring it back, and you don't
want to give it corrective stick input or it'll recover in some different attitude. It's
pretty much point and shoot. You fly the overall trajectory rather than the localized
turbulence.

My D60 had a burned out DS095 for a while on one of the flaps. I'd turn the HH gyro
gain up a tick, and land it normally with one flap, and almost no need for manual roll
correction (gyro was handling it). I use both spoilerons and differential
so, need a gyro that can handle that.

ian
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 02:00 PM
JWs are Shear Fun!
Aerogance's Avatar
USA
Joined Sep 2008
2,657 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
However, gyro induced speed wobbles are possible especially in rate mode, which
is why remote adjustable gain is good, and HH gyro is better. With the old ACT Fuzzy
Pro in my D60 in HH mode, I turn the gain up for launch (great for launching over a cliff in
rowdy air) turn it down a little once it's flying, and then never touch it again.
You guys don't understand Alan's system. It automatically adjusts the gyro gain based on the airspeed derived from the pitot tube system. Its nothing like anything you have seen or used, and Alan is a genius when it comes to electronics so you can be assured his system will be flawless when completed. I would like to have such a system in my next plane, I hope he can produce commercial units in the future.
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Last edited by Aerogance; Dec 19, 2011 at 06:42 PM.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 02:13 PM
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Pacific Palisades, CA
Joined Jul 2004
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Last I saw Alan flying his JW at Parker it was impressive. There is no other way a 35-40 oz JW would be that stable in 50-60 mph on the backside without the gyro. At one point both the wings fluttered badly from root to tip, but the plane kept tracking dead straight and flew right out of it. I am interested in trying it myself.

I didn't really get to see the groundspeed telemetry in action. It seemed to be reading airspeed and not groundspeed, as we were radaring at the same time using a Prospeed. The telemetry was reading 30-40 mph faster than the gun. I think he has both airspeed and groundspeed reading capabilities.
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