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Old Dec 18, 2011, 04:16 PM
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Mini-HowTo
F5D with Geared Folder Powertrains

F5D pylon racers with the traditional fixed 4.7 inch diameter prop spinning at 45,000rpm haven't really appealed to me due to the noise. (I make exceptions for Ritewing Demons spinning APC 6x4's at 40,000!)

However in recent years there has been more and more people using geared motors and folding props in F5D planes:
Viper F5B mit Kontronik Kira 480-31 / 5,2 Getriebe (2 min 1 sec)

using:
Viper F5B
Motor: Kira 31-480
Getriebe: 5,2
Regler: FAI 18
Latte: RF 16X17 schmal (I found out this means "Slim"!)
Akku: 4S SLS 2400 mAh

Some are mind boggling (skip to about 2.00 if you're lingistically challanged):
Miha Holc leti 300 Km/h (2 min 59 sec)

using:
Lehner 1530/6 on 4:1 Planetary Gear
Kontronik FAI 18
3S Hyperion 3300 35C cells
RFM 15x16 on 5° spinner
2xD60 and 1xD47 servos
Futaba R617 receiver

Some are setup to be light weight and fun like Yello's: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...ostcount=1372:
Hotliner light (2 min 32 sec)

using:
Hotliner Flipper
140cm
695g
Setup:
Hk2221/Reisenauer 5:1
4S 1800 Nano 65C
Prop:12x14

A geared folder was flown to 4th place by Marcel Schlage (Swiss) at the 2010 F5D World Championships in Muncie caused a sensation due to the shape of the blades, the use of a 9 x 22 prop and the fact it was competitive :
Swiss F5D Sawtooth Propellor Practice Flight (2 min 26 sec)


Here it is competing more recently with a conventional fixed prop model for your (hearing dis)pleasure:
F5D-Christoph Meier with selfmade propeller (2 min 8 sec)

Setup:
www.koelleteam.de
Pilot: Christoph Meier with DIY folder propeller. Kontronik Kira 480/31 5,2:1 geardrive
F5D contest germany 2011

The technical details of the "sawtoothed" prop in particular are discussed here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ght=muncie+f5d , http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...&highlight=f5d , http://www.rc-network.de/forum/showt...375-neue-props

Here is a competitive geared presumeably conventional bladed folder setup competing at a German contest in 2011:
F5D Kontronik geardrive with folder prop flown by Wimmer & Goebel (1 min 29 sec)

Setup:
motor: Kontronik Kira 480 / 5,2:1
Lipo: 5s 1800
propeller: DIY by Hannes & Christoph
models: Avionik

There has been expectations raised that similar sized props - both sawtoothed or conventional - will be available commercially in 2012 such as http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=297 & http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=43 & http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ghlight=m+koch but for now it seems cutting down RFM blades is the only practical solution for many people to even get close to the dimensions of the way oversquare props: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...8&postcount=68
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 03:02 AM
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I don't think you can see too many geared folder equipped Vipers!

Especially like the disbelieving laughter straight after launch!

Viper F5D (3 min 11 sec)
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 05:04 AM
never mind the boll⁣⁣⁣ocks
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vas is das!

so when are you getting one peter?
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 10:00 PM
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Funny you mention that Ambrose!

As a result of Heliclown's calling my bluff, we both have a FVK Plasma each which is essentially a poor man's F5D style plane as a means of trying out our first moldies before potentially spending big money on a X Plane for Heliclown and a PILF Monster for me.

I have been blown away with how much I've enjoyed the Plasma and have now run a number of powertrains - both direct drive pylon and geared folder hotliner setups which I've posted about in the FVK Plasma thread: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...1269709&page=8 (Even get the "vas is das!!! and the laughter from my colleagues!)

I've since realised that a Monster isn't for me (I wouldn't be able to see it for starters being all black and the shipping quote ended that dream), an X Plane at $450US is a strong possibility if I can find others to share the shipping costs with. A Viper would be nice too but the shipping it's likely to make it dream land too.

However a F5D Summit from Big Bruce Racing might just be the solution.

I do have a geared Kontronik Kira 480-31 on it's way from Germany so I'm keen for something otherwise it WILL end up in a Ritewing Demon!
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Old Dec 21, 2011, 04:10 AM
Livin it UP when Im goin DOWN
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Peter!
I find the subject of this thread very interesting

-Peter
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Old Dec 21, 2011, 04:29 AM
Livin it UP when Im goin DOWN
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BTW: Have you seen F5D Kyrill and F5D Sporadic?

Go here: http://www.vasamodel.cz/

Kyrill you can find in the list to the right, and Sporadic can be found under "Under preparation" to the left.

Those are shweeeet lookin'
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Old Dec 21, 2011, 05:42 AM
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Yes, I've ogled them all!

Unfortunately having one piece wings means I've had quotes like $245US (X Plane) and 200 Euros (Monster) for shipping to Australia.......
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Old Dec 21, 2011, 06:02 AM
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Ugh!!!! That much?
I think the shipping of the X to Norway was about 60usd.
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Old Dec 22, 2011, 05:19 AM
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For the record: this video should be posted here:
Saw prop test on kira480 (0 min 41 sec)
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Old Dec 22, 2011, 06:14 AM
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Thank you!

Have you noticed that flying these geared folder setups is always accompanied by laughter???!!!!

So I've got a Kira 480-31 5.2:1 and a ICE 100 Lite on the way and today I put my name down for a Summit for delivery in Feb/March.

Now I just need to sort out two props - one for hotlining and one for (pretend) pylon racing!

The hotliner prop is straightforward, but finding a 9ish x22ish prop is another matter.........
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Old Dec 22, 2011, 06:26 AM
Livin it UP when Im goin DOWN
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter M View Post
Thank you!

Have you noticed that flying these geared folder setups is always accompanied by laughter???!!!!

So I've got a Kira 480-31 5.2:1 and a ICE 100 Lite on the way and today I put my name down for a Summit for delivery in Feb/March.

Now I just need to sort out two props - one for hotlining and one for (pretend) pylon racing!

The hotliner prop is straightforward, but finding a 9ish x22ish prop is another matter.........
I suspect the setup in the video is running 6S... Murdo helped me with doppler and we found about 13.5k rpm
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Old Dec 22, 2011, 06:42 PM
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Double Oversquare Folding F5D Props

So now the hard bit!

We know that Georgi Mirov is or about to produce 10x23 and a 11x22
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=297

We know that Marcus Koch has talked about producing 7x13, 8x12,5, 8,5x23, 9x14, 9,8x17,5, 10x17B, 11x17S and later 8,5x17B, 9x17B, 9x17S, 10x17S, 8,5x20B, 9x20B and 10x20B. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...ghlight=m+koch and recently posted that some are available: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...3&postcount=88 Here are some photos of the blades: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=155 Since these prop blades are intended for Speedcup use they are very strongly made to withstand high rpm and power - http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...2&postcount=28 - unlike the dainty little blades on the F5D pylon racers in pictures posted recently.

We know Big Bruce has tested his 12x18 and is looking for a bit more speed but expects to have a competitive prop available by the 2012 WC. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=43 In fact he is testing a sawtooth prop supplied by a Japanese friend this weekend. I think this is photo of it here: http://www.bigbruceracing.com/electric/gallery.html

We know LE-Composites, who made Marcel's prop are planning on making them commercially available but there is currently no indication of this on their website: http://www.le-composites.de Here are some good photos from D English, who purchased it when LE sold off a complete powertrain used by Marcel to help fund further development: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=717

Have I left any other potential sources of commercially available double oversquare folder props out????

EDIT: 15 Jan 2012 - Yes, the maker of the Swist is producing a 10x22 now: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...363716&page=23 and according to Bob at SoaringUSA should be available mid Feb Here is some more details on the maker's website: http://ajaeromodels.com/forf5d I like the options for shaft sizes but are only available in 30mm spinner size. 46 Euros looks a good price too!

EDIT: 16 Jan 2012 - Big Bruce advised that he will have some ajaeromodels props for testing next week and if they perform well he'll stock them. But he hasn't given up on getting his own front running prop. (I don't discount this as if you Google his name you'll see he's been making championship winning props for decades!)

EDIT: 30 Jan 2012 - Marcus Koch advised that he is now making 10x23 and 11x23 blades as well as those listed above.

EDIT: 13 March 2012 - GM have produced their first batch of 10 x 23's http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=37 Marcus Koch updates on plans for more props but his Speedcup planes are his priority: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=40

EDIT: 14 March 2012 - Big Bruce has advised that he will be making 10.5 x 19 & 10.5 x 23 and eventually will have hubs with +/- 2 deg increments to “tweak” the props as well. He is also expecting to have props done before he leaves for racing in Japan in early April.

EDIT: 16 March 2012 - Steve Neu advises that they will be selling the GM props in 10x23 and 11x22 sizes within days.http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...9#post21065650

EDIT: 18 March 2012 - Bob at SUSA advises that they will also be selling these GM props in the same sizes as above within 2 weeks. Also noticed today on the ajaeromodels website that they are selling 10.5x23 and 10.5x19 on 30mm spinners for 75 Euro and will soon have 10.5x22 & 9.5x23 (17/3/12) and 9.5x22 (10/4/12) as well.

EDIT: 3 April 2012 - Forget LE Composites, they're not going to do anything. My money is on Big Bruce and he will be the one to watch in May/June.

EDIT: 6 April 2012 - Let's not forget the RFM 10 x 16 blades that Andy Reisenauer commissioned. In many ways I think these might be the best solution for sport fliers who just don't fly like they're in a pylon race each outing. Having some acceleration is nice..... http://www.reisenauer.de/artikeldetails.php5?aid=1431

EDIT: 14 April 2012 - Rolf D hints that RFM is bringing on some higher pitched folders sometime soon: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...&postcount=211

EDIT: 22 April 2012 - Marcus Koch advises of more sizes: "....10x20, 11x20, 10x22, 11x22, 10x23, 11x23 and 12x24!
Working on the plugs at the moment for mold building......"

EDIT: 23 April 2012 - Acmeflyingmachines start testing their 10.5 x 22 this week with the intention of commencing commercial production if testing is successful. More details here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...4&postcount=97

EDIT: 28 May 2012 - Big Bruce Racing starts production of the Paul Scheiber sawtooth blades after buying the moulds and rights from him in early April. Since the special internal yoke spinners are not yet readily available, the blade roots will be thickened to fit conventional yokes in the meantime.

EDIT: 16 June 2012 - Big Bruce offers blades for sale: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=52

EDIT: 29 May 2012 - Rolf D advises that RFM are about to produce 12x17's for sale by Andy Reisenauer : http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...40&postcount=9

EDIT: 10 June 2012 - Soaring USA start selling GM 10x23 and 11x22 props on 30mm spinners for both 5mm and 6mm shafts: http://www.soaringusa.com/Props/

EDIT: 16 June 2012 - Big Bruce offers blades to the public: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...7&postcount=52 & http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...1&postcount=53

EDIT: 12 December 2012- GM produce improved blades: "Latest version of GM F5D folders is now available. Size is 9x21.5". Improved design for more efficiency over the previous versions. Available as a set with 30mm spinner or as blades only."

THIS POST WILL NO LONGER BE UPDATED AFTER DECEMBER 2012 - thanks for your interest!
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Last edited by Peter M; Dec 24, 2012 at 02:22 PM. Reason: Updates
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Old Dec 22, 2011, 07:03 PM
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I think the http://www.reisenauer.de prop was a copy of the marcus koch one (from memory) different blade roots or something though, 7x13 maybe, but it doesnt seem to be listed anymore anyway!

And subscribed
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Old Dec 23, 2011, 05:33 AM
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Chris Hanne's Prop

Well one of them, I'm sure he has more....
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Old Dec 23, 2011, 05:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arcteryxxx View Post
I suspect the setup in the video is running 6S... Murdo helped me with doppler and we found about 13.5k rpm
Assuming you're are talking about Marcel Schlage's Muncie WC model, the only info I could find is: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...0&postcount=49
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