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Old Dec 15, 2011, 07:11 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
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The ORIGINAL #16 HD keycam thread (read posts #1-#5 BEFORE posting questions)

Thread Usage Protocol

This thread is part of a radio controlled model web site in a Forum dedicated to Aerial Video. As such, the content of this thread is intended to focus on the operation and capabilities of the #16 HD keychain camera for aerial video purposes. I know there are many users of the camera for purposes other than this, and you are welcome here. In fact, many of the camera's functions have evolved from your input. But I ask that your posts do not divert the flow of the thread into off-topic areas. Video links should be for aerial videos, with a couple of exceptions... to demonstrate a specific problem/solution with the camera or to clarify some of the camera's abilities. These exceptions can help all users as well as give feedback to the camera developer, who monitors this thread closely.

Also, this thread is a "self-help" thread! The four posts following this one contain much information that can answer many user questions. I try to keep these four posts updated with current information, frequently asked questions/answers, firmware updates, and useful utility links that everyone can make use of. It is my intent and expectation that thread posters user will "do their homework" and access these four posts before posting new questions. If you still have questions, the advanced thread search feature should be used to help find posts that relate to your questions. This will not only help keep the thread from becoming bloated with redundant questions that have been asked and answered many times, it will also keep the thread leaner and more interesting to the target audience.

If this is your first time reading this thread, please read the next four posts now to familiarize yourself with this thread's structure and resources.

Thanks in advance for your cooperation!

p.s. The chucklohr.com web site will also have information about the #16 camera.
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Old Dec 15, 2011, 07:11 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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#16 Camera Specs and Sources

This new #16HD is a completely redesigned version of it's predecessor, the #11HD keychain camera. Internal pictures are attached below, and the CMOS sensor data sheet is available here.

So far, the following web stores have been identified as selling the REAL #16 HD key cam. There has been no negative user feedback posted here on any of these stores, and positive feedback has been posted of receiving good service and vendors standing behind their product if any problems come up that are not caused by user abuse, crash damage, etc.:

eletoponline365 (China); digitalele889 (China); novotm (U.S.-MA); MassiveRC (U.S.-FL); Webbex (U.K.); JooVuu (UK); Revotech (CZ)


Prices can vary slightly from one vendor to the other and depends on what is included in different accessory packages. User replaceable parts, e.g. battery and CMOS/lens module, are available from the camera vendors for about $4US and $9US delivered, respectively. If parts are not listed on their sites, use the web site email contact link to request what you need. They will respond promptly with information of how to buy them. They all use direct PayPal payment.

Class 4 memory cards provide the best compatibility with this camera and are strongly recommended. Class 6 and Class 10 cards, at best, do NOTHING to improve the camera's video and cost more, and at worst, they may not work at all! If you are uncertain about what kind of memory cards work with the camera (see the FAQ in post #3), look to order one from the camera vendor when you place your order and be done with it!

Look for the frame size and frame rate to be 1280 x 720 @ 30 fps, the H.264 video codec, and the .MOV file format. The detailed specification that frequently accompany the add banner may also have these details. Sample pictures and a specs list from an eBay ad for this camera is attached below as a reference.

<EDIT 01/27/13> A new case with a flat bottom, better CMOS module securement, stronger case securement tabs, and a higher capacity battery option have been announced. See details here.

<EDIT 06/13/2013> The V2 #16 with video-out is now formally released, with three lenses... the normal 70 deg. one (Lens A), a slightly wider AOV "red" one (Lens B, with IR filter on the front) and a 120 deg. fisheye lens (Lens D). A side-by-side visual comparison of these lenses can be seen in this post link, and also this one.

<EDIT 6/4/2013> New accessory cables for lens extension, right-angle USB video-out, and USB OTG (for Android devices) are now available. See here for details.

<EDIT 12/31/2013> New version 3 (V3) circuit board camera released. See post #16522 for details.

<EDIT 04/22/2014> New base plates have been released that will allow mounting the #16 camera to standard tri-pod screw mounts as well as their various articulating-ball mounts.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Apr 22, 2014 at 08:40 AM. Reason: Added JooVuu.com to verified re-seller list and new base-plates
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Old Dec 15, 2011, 07:12 PM
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#16 Frequently Asked Questions (FAQs)

FAQs are kept updated as new frequent questions come up.

General Camera QuestionsVideo QuestionsAudio QuestionsEditing Issues

The #16 HD key cam outputs files with H.264 video codec, with two different firmware versions for the output container format. The standard firmware uses .MOV format, an Apple implementation, which unfortunately makes it more problematic for editing since some editors will not import this format. Also available is an .AVI firmware, but the implementation has editing issues of it's own due a non-standard .AVI format. But you can re-encode (with slight quality loss) the native non-standard AVI file to a standard AVI format with most any file converter program or editor such as the VirtualDUb or AviDemux editors. The AVI format does offer one advantage over the MOV version, and that is the continuous recorded clips have a one second overlap, so they can be stitched together with an editor to make one long continuous video. This does require overlapping each clip manually with the exact 1 second overlap, though, to eliminate duplicated or dropped frames. If you don't need that overlap, but do need AVI files for editing, the best solution is to shoot in MOV format and convert to AVI with no quality loss using the following conversion tool.

MP4cam2AVI Conversion tool

If you cannot import .MOV format files in your editor, the best way to convert the file is to use the MP4cam2AVI utility available here. It will do a direct stream copy (no recompression) of the source audio and video streams and simply repackage them in an .AVI container which most editors can load. The advantage of this is both speed and quality. Since it is just copying the video and audio streams verbatim without doing any re-encoding, it is very fast... approximately 1 second for each minute of video. And because it does not re-encode, you don't lose any quality.

Some players/editors will not properly decode the direct copied audio, so I usually do re-encode it or turn it off. Selecting one of the .MP3 codecs will produce slightly smaller files.

You'll still need to have the video codec (H.264) on the computer to decode the video, though. The ffdshow codec package mentioned below will provide the codecs if needed. Other tips for using this tool are in this post.

This program can also do some limited re-encoding of the video using the less efficient X-vid video codec, join clips together into one, and trim unwanted beginning and ending sections from videos.

Windows Movie Maker 2012

This latest update to the former Windows Live Movie Maker was released with Windows 8. One significant improvement is it can now output in MP4/h.264 format as well as it's own WMV format. Another significant upgrade is a built-in image stabilization function, however it only functions when running under Windows 8. Other than that one feature, it runs OK under Windows 7. WMM 2012 can be downloaded for free from Microsoft's web site.

If you prefer the look/feel of the old XP WMM with the better capability of the Vista version (v6.0) of WMM, you can also download the latter. Details here.

VideoPad

This is a commercial product, but can be download a free version with most functions activated. It is an easy to use editor similar to the older Windows Movie Maker (before WLMM was released), but it can import/export most common file formats and has a few more bells and whistles, like more than one timeline for videos and overlays which not only work for text, sound tracks, and pictures, but also a second video (i.e. picture-in-picture capability). It will still import most video formats, but will only output in WMV and AVI formats. And you can't use add-ons, like Vdub filters. But for basic editing, it's a good alternative, even in the freeware version. It can be downloaded here.

AviDemux

A decent basic freeware editor that can import and edit the .MOV files directly is AviDemux. It is available in version for Windows, Linux, and Mac. It has similar functionality to VirtualDub, but Vdub can only directly import .AVI files and the H.264 video codec must be added separately.

The latest version of AviDemux can be downloaded from the author's web site here.

An AviDemux user guide is available here.

While this editor does not have the fancy transitions and text tools of WLMM, it has some very powerful filters for visibly improving the color and clarity of the HD key cam video that WLMM cannot do.

Tips and Tricks for editing HD key cam videos with AviDemux

Freemaker Video Converter

This tool can efficiently convert clips from the .MOV format to other formats with other codecs, but unlike the MP4cam2AVI tool, it will re-encode the video, which takes a lot more time and can add a tiny bit of quality loss. But, it adds the ability to also trim out un-wanted sections, rotate/resize videos, join video clips and pictures together. and add a sound track into one final video. While it lacks fancy transitions, video effects, and text titling tools, this may be all that's needed for many people. Buttons to click for direct uploads to YouTube and other hosting sites are also built in. Some tips for using this tool are listed in this post, and the program can be download from here.


Video and Audio Codecs - ffdshow

If your video editor/player does not support the codecs used in the camera's native .MOV file, you will need to add them to your system. The code pack I use and would recommend is ffdshow. This tool is regularly updated to keep it current and/or squash any bugs that might be found.

The latest version of ffdshow can be downloaded here.

Note: The latest revision of ffdshow no longer supports the H.264 video codec for encoding files, but does have the codec for decoding files. If you want to encode with the H.264 video codec, download and install the open source version, x.264vfw, for MS Windows from this source. This gives some info on using the x.264vfw codec with VirtualDub editor, and codec configuration settings that provide good results with #16 video.

Many video players/editors do not support the Apple Quicktime .MOV file format that the HD key cam records. You will need to convert the file from .MOV to a format your software will load. Standard .AVI is usually a universal format for this.

Editing Tips

1. If you are not doing any editing, it's always best to just upload the original from the camera. But if it's a long video (more than 2-3 minutes), it's always best for your viewers to at least trim out redundant or less interesting parts to keep the duration within that guideline.

2. If you are ONLY TRIMMING unwanted sections, you do NOT need to re-encode the video if you use the MOV firmware. You can use free utility software to do trimming with a "direct copy" mode for the video. The file output will go extremely fast since there's no re-encoding, but some formats do not like the native audio from the camera, so I always set audio to re-encode with .mp3 compression for compatibility reasons. The output speed is still much faster than when re-encoding the video.

If you use the camera's .AVI firmware, you can NOT do direct copy video trimming because the camera uses a non-standard AVI format. You will always need to re-encode the video. If you use the MOV firmware, you can do direct copy video trimming using AviDemux editor, or you can "re-package" it first into a standard AVI format (with no quality loss!) using the MP4cam2AVI utility, and then use the Virtual Dub and AviDemux editors, or the Avi Trimmer utility (all are free downloads).

3. If you need to do anything other than trimming, such as adding titles, using special video effects, etc., you will have to re-encode the video. For best quality and smallest file size, keep the h.264 video codec (aka AVC, x.264) and set the data rate to be roughly the same as your original recording. You can easily determine what that was by looking at the file properties (with Windows, right click on the file icon, and select Properties/Details tab).

Alternatively, if using Windows Movie Maker, outputting into .WMV format using the program's "best for this video" choice when selecting the profile to use for outputting the file will give virtually the same video quality (to my eye) with only slightly larger file size. In some case, the motion appears smoother to my eye as well.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Aug 27, 2014 at 05:29 PM. Reason: Added FAQ on toggling on DVR mode for recorded video playback
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Old Dec 15, 2011, 07:12 PM
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#16 Firmware, Configuration, and User Manual Information

If possible, firmware updating and changing of camera settings should always be done using one of the available graphical user interface (GUI) programs now available.

This page has an overview of the current configuration setting information and download links for the instruction manual (user guide) and Windows GUI software authored by Isoprop.

This post contains information about Android apps authored by therau2000; these apps allow configuring the #16 camera on-the-go and using Android Phone/Tablet to get a live video preview when mounting camera.

New firmware and user settings can be loaded into the camera manually as a last resort (see below), but it requires specific file editing and handling procedures as well as multiple button press sequences on the camera. It is easy for user errors to cause these updates to fail! Also, there are numerous camera settings, some of which conflict with each other if both are toggled on at the same time. The GUI programs will not permit these conflicting settings to be set. The GUI programs will eliminate all of these user error possibilities, so please do yourself a favor and use them.



Optional Manual User Configuration Setting Procedure

If a GUI tool is not available or you would rather just edit the configuration text file manually, it's easy to do, just follow these steps exactly:

1. Download the camera's configuration file to the flash card in the camera (see procedure in the instruction manual referenced above).

2. Turn the camera on, connect it to your PC, and access the camera root directory when it goes into the "removable disk mode".

3. Open the config text file with a simple (ASCII) text editor (e.g. the familiar "Notepad" text editor for Windows users). The file will look similar to this:

Note: Values used by the camera are highlighted in the square brackets. The text underlined in red is NOT part of the config file, but is included here to show question marks can be used for the date/time value to keep the camera's current date/time settings. Functions shown may vary with firmware updates, but manual editing is similar. Text in curly brackets at the bottom show the firmware and boot loader versions in the camera.
4. Replace any number(s) in the square brackets with any valid alternate setting number, shown highlighted to the right of each function, with the exception of date and time. Don't delete the "-" or "/" marks or add any spaces or invalid numbers.
note: Using invalid numbers or other characters in the square brackets has not shown to cause serious problems. The camera appears to ignore them or switch to default values.
5. Save the revised file back to the flash card root directory, but do not change the file name.

6. Upload the revised configuration back into the camera. The same key-press sequence used to download the configuration from the camera will also upload it to the camera.

7. When the LED turns off, you're done! The new configuration will be in the camera and the config file will be automatically deleted from the flash card. You may check the flash card to confirm this if you wish.



Firmware

Firmware for the #16 camera does not need to be replaced with new firmware every time a user configuration change is desired. Those changes are best done using the GUI tool (see above).

Also, the GUI will determine if your camera firmware is out of date, download the latest firmware if you agree, and install it for you, taking all the potential for user error out of it. You are strongly advise to ALWAYS use a GUI tool for all camera firmware changes.


The firmware development and refinment is a continuing process, and the most recent OFFICIALLY RELEASED versions will be kept attached to this post as downloadable zip files. Any problems found with the Released Firmware should be reported to me via PM. Note: The different firmware will ALWAYS have the same name... FWMICDVR.BIN, which is necessary for the camera to identify it as firmware to be installed. When you un-zip the attached firmware archive file, the firmware FILE will be in a named FOLDER so you can tell at a glance which firmware file is in the folder. When preparing to install the firmware as detailed below, make sure to copy the firmware FILE (FWMICDVR.BIN) and NOT THE FOLDER itself to the memory card root directory. The camera will not find the firmware if it's in a folder. I keep old, obsolete firmware in case anyone needs a copy (PM me with your email address).

NOTE: BETA TEST firmware is created as part of the on-going development and is sometimes released to selected users for testing only. It is NOT officially released firmware and it may contain bugs, so is NOT intended for general distribution. .

There are two firmware types for the #16 camera:
  1. MOV firmware - this outputs standard MOV format files and is the default firmware for the camera. The individual movie clips produced by the camera's timed sequence of stop/save/continue function will normally have 2-3 seconds of lost video between clips.

  2. AVI firmware - this outputs AVI format files and has the unique advantage of producing the camera's individual movie clips with about a one second overlap. This means there is no gap in the recorded data, and the individual clips can be matched and joined by post-editing to produce an uninterrupted movie with duration limited only by the size of your flash memory card. The current AVI firmware is still in need of AVI format revision so it can be edited properly, but it should play OK and has the same video quality as the MOV format. To edit these files (even simple trimming) you need to first re-encode them with most editors, even commercial ones. If you need AVI format, but can live with the short gap in the video between saved clips, use the MOV firmware and then do a loss-less conversion (NO re-encoding) using the MP4cam2AVI conversion tool linked in post #3.

The most up-to-date firmware is available for manual download at the bottom of this page.


Optional Manual Firmware Update Procedure

The following procedure is for manually updating your camera firmware. It is no longer necessary to do this if you use one of the latest GUI configuration programs. It will determine if your camera firmware is out of date, download the latest firmware if you agree, and install it for you, taking all the potential for user error out of it. You are strongly advise to ALWAYS use the GUI tools for all camera firmware changes.


ALERT:
  • READ THE UPDATING INSTRUCTIONS FULLY BEFORE STARTING
  • DO NOT BEGIN UNTIL YOU UNDERSTAND EACH STEP
  • DO NOT SKIP ANY STEPS
1. Copy the new firmware file into the camera's flash card root directory (the one that opens when the camera connects as a removable drive). This can be done with the card in the camera connected to the computer as a Removable Drive, or externally in a card reader. But do NOT rename the file. If you do, the camera will not install it!

2. Disconnect the camera and turn it off.

3. Insert the flash card containing the new firmware file into the camera (if not already in the camera).

4. Press the Power button until the Yellow LED turns on and begins to flash. RELEASE THE POWER BUTTON AS SOON AS LED FLASHING BEGINS! If you keep pressing it longer, you may turn off the camera before the update process is done.

5. To confirm the firmware is being loaded into the camera, the Yellow LED will first blink. The blinking may continue until the LED finally turns off, or the LED may turn on solid for several seconds before turning off (depends on camera). In either case DO NOT PRESS ANY BUTTONS while the yellow LED is still on or blinking! If you do, the firmware may not fully install and the camera will not function properly. If you find this to be the case AFTER COMPLETING THE REST OF THESE STEPS, repeat the firmware installation and make sure you follow all the steps EXACTLY as stated.

6. When the firmware is fully installed, the Yellow LED will turn off and the camera will shut down.

Note: v3 boot loader file should be installed to make the following Step 7 unnecessary once it is installed and running. It will automatically delete any new firmware (or boot loader) .BIN file from the camera memory card after it is installed and running. Installing it is optional, but recommended, and cameras are now shipping with this new boot loader installed.[/b]

7. Delete the firmware file from the flash card. DO NOT SKIP THIS STEP!
  • After the updating process is completed, the firmware file will remain on the flash card and will NOT be automatically deleted from the flash card by the camera. [B]You MUST delete it manually or the camera will reload the firmware file every time it is turned on, and will shut down afterwards. The camera will be UNUSABLE until a card is used that has no firmware file on it.

    NOTE: If you have v3 Boot loader installed in your camera, the firmware file will be automatically deleted, and the camera will go to normal Standby Mode (Yellow LED stays on) when the installation is done, making this step unnecessary. The v3 Boot loader is also available for download below. It is installed just like a firmware file.
  • Use ONE of the following methods to delete the file:

    External PC method
    • Remove the card from the camera and insert it into a card reader. You cannot use another #16 camera for this.
    • Delete the firmware file (FWMICDVR.BIN).
    • Insert the card back into the camera and it is ready for use. YOU ARE DONE!

    OR,

    In-camera "backdoor" method:
    • Make sure the camera is turned off.
    • Remove the card from the camera.
    • Turn on the camera and wait for the yellow LED to blink, indicating it needs a flash card.
    • Insert the card back into the camera. DO NOT PUSH ANY BUTTONS.
    • Connect the camera to the PC using a standard USB cable.
    • When the camera connects as a removable disk, delete the firmware file (FWMICDVR.BIN) from the disk.
    • Unplug the camera from the USB cable. It is now ready for use. YOU ARE DONE!


Firmware Download Site

[B]FW v1.12 has been posted. This adds new Power On auto-recording, auto-connect to USB data ports, and USB charging ON/OFF toggle FOR V3 #16 CAMERAS ONLY! Requires GUI 2.0.2.2. or higher for PC configuration (see post #16522 for details). This FW can load and run in V1 and V2 cameras, BUT you will not get the added functionality with it. I have removed FW V67 for this reason (no need for a separate FW for earlier camera versions).
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jan 06, 2014 at 09:54 AM. Reason: Revised the FW info text... had info pertaining to Mobius
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Old Dec 15, 2011, 09:11 PM
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I am ready to order

With the free battery offer I sent the ebay seller a message to confirm how to secure the free battery.
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Old Dec 15, 2011, 11:36 PM
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What's NOT Included In the Release Firmware

Since I listed all the features that were being worked on for the #16 back in the #11 thread, I thought I should mention a couple that have not met expectations yet.
  • 640x480 @ (60fps) - this mode spits out 60 fps, but for yet undetermined reasons, the frames are not unique. To be exact, every other frame is a duplicate, so it's no different from a normal 30 fps video in terms of smooth motion, yet the file size is about twice as big. No bargain there, so this option was omitted from the release firmware. If the problem can determined and fixed, this feature would be added in a future firmware update.

  • The .AVI firmware DOES allow for no lost video between individual saved video clips during the normal stop/save/continue function of the camera. It does this by buffering the frames where the video clips are split, so there is about a 1 sec. "overlap" of video at the end of one clip and the beginning of the next. It's possible to align these separate clips with a really good editor that can manipulate and split or overlay the back-to-back "overlap" in time alignment for smooth motion playback.

    But that's where a significant problem arises with many editors. Some lose all playing information if the very first frame of a clip is removed. Editing with Virtual Dub editor, for example, has this problem. making trimming horribly involved, and even pausing a play back in Vdub prevents the remaining video from playing unless the timeline marker is drug back to the beginning to get the playing information again, then drug back to where you want to resume playing. The first frame MUST be kept with any file trimming. Better commercial editors keep the first file header information in memory, so you can trim/edit normally! Other require trimming the first frame and keeoing it at the beginning of the video. Then the file can be re-encoded and play/edited properly.

    Re-encoding the native .AVI file before any post editing is one workaround to fix the abnormal .AVI header structure, allowing normal editing if necessary. But some file conversion utilities do not parse the native file properly to re-package without errors into a new .AVI container. Ironically, Virtual Dub is NOT one of them. So even though editing the native file with Vdub is an exercise in frustration, you can load in the native video, immediately re-encode it, and load the re-encoded file back in to edit normally!

    This is all hard to grasp until you try it with your favorite editing program (WMM and WLMM will NOT work).
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Dec 03, 2012 at 10:20 AM. Reason: deleted some .AVI comments and obsolete sample video link
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 12:58 AM
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I've just ordered my #16 HD key cam...delivery date Jan. 2012
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 01:18 AM
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Joined Nov 2010
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In the beginning...

I would like to take this opportunity to specially thank Tom for all the hard work that he has done, and is continuing doing, for this camera.

He contacted me a few months ago and asked me if I would consider writing a configuration utility (GUI) for the upcoming #16 (#11 plus/ultra/ultimate/elite etc. at that time).
I was absolutely delighted as this would be a change to my daily work programming gigantic, ultra complicated and messy applications.

After a few months of silence, the developer was almost ready. OMG, I was taken almost by surprise . From then on, things went very fast indeed. Luckily I could use the time-setting programs that I had previously written for the #11 as a base.
I went thru many beta versions, and Tom was more than helpful. Actually, most of the current layout is based on his ideas. We discussed a LOT of different options. The program's appearance may not be to everyone's likes - no skins and the like... But it's functional! We decided on a larger font for the sake of ease of reading, and we spent a long time on deciding on the colors. And there were those darn ToolTips, and the integrated Help, and, and, and.

Of course it's possible to set the parameters using a text editor, like Tom initially did, but that method can be error prone. It also requires a bit of computer knowledge.

At this point I must mention the developer and everyone (that's YOU and I) who participated in Tom's previous #11 thread. The developer listened to us all! He most probably read almost every post in Tom's #11 thread and realized what a great camera he had already produced. There was no stopping him incorporating the most requested features into his new, the #16, camera. So THANK YOU VERY MUCH.

As a last note, which is just an assumption, I suspect that the resources (memory) must be pretty much depleted, so I doubt if it's possible to add any more code-intensive functionality to the camera. Of course, if more parameters can be added, I'll also modify the configuration utility.
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Last edited by Isoprop; Dec 16, 2011 at 04:16 AM.
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 02:42 AM
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Instruction Manual and Configuration Program

This is the original GUI which I created in co-operation with the developer and Tom. The first version was released on 16 December 2011 and has always been updated in synchronization with the latest firmware versions.

The program is a native Windows application specifically written for the Windows operating system (XP and above) and does not require any 3rd party runtime system to be installed. The simple and extremely user-friendly program is fully plug-and-play but also fully supports the older file-based configuration method. The program will also run on Linux and Mac systems running the Wine compatibility layer.

A full feature list is shown after the introductory pictures below.

The latest GUI software configuration tool together with the latest instruction manuals (User Guides) from both the manufacturer and the program may be downloaded by clicking here
.

I strongly recommend that you check the above site on a regular basis because I will be keeping the program instruction manual up-to-date, especially the "Trouble Shooting" at the end of the guide. Also, new firmware versions may incorporate new or modified parameters which will also only be available in the latest GUI version. You may also set the program to check for software and firmware updates automatically, each time you start the program.

The above site does not contain any firmware files. All available firmware can be downloaded from here.

Windows GUI software configuration tool (click on image below to download the program)








...and the integrated "Help" (User Guide - click on image below to view/download)


The configuration tool needs no installation whatsoever. Just unzip it to your favorite location, even the camera's SD card if you feel so inclined.

These are just a few of the software tool's highlights:
  • Extremely easy to use, even for inexperienced users. FUI (friendly user interface, as one member posted)
  • Native Windows program. Works on all Windows versions (XP and above) without the need to install additional run-time environments.
  • Truly plug-and-play but also supports the old configuration file settings.
  • Large fonts for easy reading.
  • Dialog can be resized by simply dragging the edges. Fonts will also be resized!
  • Works on low-resolution monitors.
  • Built-in program Help.
  • Tooltips which can be enabled or disabled.
  • All possible parameter settings are clearly visible, making their selection a highly efficient, one-click procedure. No need to scroll data into view.
  • Modified parameters are shown in green.
  • Very detailed error and warning messages.
  • Fully integrated detailed user manual (User Guide) which can also be printed.
  • Profile management for advanced users (different configurations).
  • Real-Time ability to read the current settings from the Camera (plug-and-play).
  • Modify all the camera's settings. Original values are shown in green.
  • Slider controls make it dead easy to set the values for Exposure, White Balance, Contrast, Saturation and Color Options.
  • Set the camera's date and time to within 1 second accuracy (if required), standard when using the USB interface.
  • Format the MicroSD card using the firmware's built-in routine.
  • MicroSD card will always be "Safely Removed".
  • Automatic or manual Program updates.
  • Automatic or manual Firmware updates. Previous parameters are saved when upgrading. Online firmware description is shown, if found.
  • Full firmware check-sum validation check. It is all but impossible to install a corrupted firmware file!
  • No program setup required. Just download, unzip the single exe file, and run.
  • Can be run from any location, including the camera's card or Windows "Program Files" folder (supports security elevation).
  • Invalid parameter combinations are clearly noted in the tool tips. Invalid parameter settings will be disabled.
  • Foreign language support. Currently available in French, German, Italian, Romanian and Spanish.
  • Translation is done by individuals - it is not automatically translated and then edited as best as possible.
  • Please contact me if you are willing to translate into other languages.
  • Dynamic language selection. If a language DLL exists, the language can be selected at any time. No parameter settings are lost.

Note:
As of version1.0.0.7 it is possible to create and keep the read-only attribute of the configuration file. This can be useful if you want to load different configurations from different cards. However, normal users do not need this special functionality. I have posted information about this new functionality here.

Foreign language modules (DLL, Dynamic Link Libraries) must be copied to the same folder as the program. On execution, the program will show a language button if it finds one or more language DLLs. Once set, the program will always start in the language previously selected.
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 04:56 AM
CURIOSITY Has Landed!
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Camera Ordered. Will update this post with my findings and thoughts when it arrives.
Many thanks to Tom and Isoprop for the work.
-B!
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 04:56 AM
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great work iso!

maybe a little "led code table" would be easier/faster to read
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 06:22 AM
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 06:35 AM
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Many thanks to Tom and Isoprop for all their work on this.
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 07:26 AM
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I think I am correct when say the lens in now connected to the pcb by means of a plug, as I have indicated in the picture.

Is is possible to buy an extension cable with male/ female plugs on it to allow the lens to be moved further away from the pcb?

I have a project where I would need this to happen.

Thanks John.

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Old Dec 16, 2011, 07:32 AM
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I just had a thought. I think you mentioned the new camera had a smaller f stop? That would give a slightly better depth of focus, and probably a nearer close focus distance which might be useful.
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Giorg View Post
great work iso!

maybe a little "led code table" would be easier/faster to read
You are absolutely correct! Wow, people notice things before the camera even exists! Good spotting!

The LED code table was included in the original Instruction manual together with a whole bunch of missing phrases.

I copied / pasted the original manual into Word and then made a PDF. But it looks like Word "swallowed" about 30% of the manual

I've now copied / pasted each paragraph - seems to work but there may be one or two minor formatting errors.

The PDF should now be, hopefully, correct.
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 08:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotsoft View Post
I think I am correct when say the lens in now connected to the pcb by means of a plug, as I have indicated in the picture.

Is is possible to buy an extension cable with male/ female plugs on it to allow the lens to be moved further away from the pcb?

I have a project where I would need this to happen.

Thanks John.
Such a cable does not exist, or better put, is not known to exist. You are not the first person to request such a cable (see #11 thread). Without the proper equipment it would be very difficult to produce such an extension, but maybe some ingenious person will come up with an idea.
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 08:51 AM
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Thanks Guys.. I'm in

just clicked the PayPal Link ..
appreciate all the tips.. fun to be on the leading edge of another cool 808 cam (I hope) .. this one is fully waterproof .. right ? JimS

yeah.. I wish..
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 09:09 AM
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 09:15 AM
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Difference between #11 and #16

I hate cross-posting (I never do it), but mabe this is a case where it's just about acceptable. I promise I won't do this again .
Don't flame me, yell at Fugitive_Bill for giving me the tip . Original post was here #8251.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yovio View Post
Sorry for newbie question, what's the different between #11 and #16?
Both cameras record excellent HD videos.
The #11 has a bad "color hunting" problem when light conditions change, like when the camera quickly moves between light and darker areas. All low-end video cameras have this problem to a certain extent, but it is very noticeable in the #11. The #16 is much better.
Color saturation in the #11 produces colors that do not reflect the real colors. The #16 produces much more realistic colors, but some people may prefer the unnatural, rich colors of the #11. Someone called these "Kodachrome" colors.
Images are slightly sharper in the #16 due to the new lens and edge vignetting is better.
In my preliminary tests, I find the #16 does not get as warm as the #11. The manufacturer states that the circuit design is much better which will add to stability.
Two large crystal "cans" which exist in the #11 and may have been the cause of malfunction are gone forever.
The battery in the #11 was soldered to the board. In the #16 it is user-replaceable.
The lens module in the #16 is (user) replaceable.
In the #11 you have to flash different firmware for different functions, like with / without timestamp, and video length. On rare occasions, flashing firmware in the #11 could brick the camera. Flashing firmware in the #16 is a much safer process and is indicated by a flashing LED. With the #11 there is no indication which can lead to premature button pressing which can interrupt the flashing process and lead to corrupted firmware.
The #11 needs a "special" cable for recording with external power. The #16 uses a standard USB cable.
The #11 battery was charged in about an hour. The #16 needs about 2.5 hours because charging is monitored by a hardware chip. This should lead to longer battery life. Battery life of #11 cameras was very short, often only a few months.
That's about it for the comparisons, unless I've forgotten something.

The #16 has a whole bunch of features that can be configured with a simple Windows program. You can't configure the #11.

Configurable functions in the #16:
- Length of video clips. Automatic stop/save/continue.
- Loop recording yes/no
- Recording Indicator on/of
- Video Data Rate
- Auto shut-off time or disabled
- Audio recording volume or no sound recording
- Video frame size

Both cameras are great, but the #16 is greater .
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 09:27 AM
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Wow great info!
Regarding wide angle lens, is it out there any option without using wide lens convertor ? The wider the lens is the better for me. I don care for little fish-eyenes
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 09:45 AM
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 09:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fishycomics View Post
Order Location to sites Please
Tom's not quite ready with all the links etc. but currently there's only one seller, eletoponline365. Go to his store and search #16. Make absolutely sure that you order the #16 and not the #11! Good hunting.

[Edit] I guess our two postings crossed each other. You have to ask him for the free battery, telling him your thread ID (fishycomics). When you get to PayPal, add a message. You can also add a message just before you leave the eBay screen, if I remember correctly.
If you forgot the message, immediately send him a normal eBay message. He tends to ship the cameras very quickly indeed! [/Edit]
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tushev View Post
Wow great info!
Regarding wide angle lens, is it out there any option without using wide lens convertor ? The wider the lens is the better for me. I don care for little fish-eyenes
Search the 11# thread for Deal Extreme 0.67x wide lense. or check out my posts. There are two versions of their lense and one is better than the other.
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobflyman View Post
I just had a thought. I think you mentioned the new camera had a smaller f stop? That would give a slightly better depth of focus, and probably a nearer close focus distance which might be useful.
I may have stated that, but it may or may not be true. It's been noticed during my test videos posted in the #11 thread that the #16 has a slower shutter speed compared to the #11, as evidenced by more visible motion blur in low light videos. That could be caused by a slightly smaller lens aperature (i.e. f-stop), giving slightly better depth of field as you say, but I haven't tried to compare that with the #11. I think they both have excellent depth of field.

The other possibility is that the lens aperatures are the same, but the transmissivity of the #16 lens is slightly less due to more elements or different material for the elements, producing better focus and less vignetting, but reducing the overall light intensity on the CMOS in the process (hence the need for slower shutter speed to get proper exposure).

If you take a still image with the #16 and then look at the Properties of the file (right click on the icon and select Properties), it shows an f stop for the camera lens as f/2.8. You could do this with the #11 for comparison. But I don't know how accurate this is. If it's just copying meta-data hard coded in the camera, I doubt the record would change when the lens that comes with the CMOS camera module is replaced with a different one. And I know MANY different lenses were tried during the #16 development.
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 10:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tushev View Post
Wow great info!
Regarding wide angle lens, is it out there any option without using wide lens convertor ? The wider the lens is the better for me. I don care for little fish-eyenes
If you check the #11 threa for my recent post about the #11 Jumbo "Hero Wannabe", you'll see there are lenses that will thread right into the CMOS module that have much wider AOV. The one in that post was 120 deg., but it is way too big to fit in the #16 case. You could hack the case possibly and make it work on the #16, but I don't have any information yet (I've asked) on where to obtain the lens or how much they might cost.
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 11:20 AM
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I want to add my thanks to Tom Frank for is tireless effort with this new version of key cam. Well done.

Bill
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 12:27 PM
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So it appears that the charge circuit is built into the camera.

I'm planning to install an single cell lipo around 3000 ma into my glider, and parallel out to two wing cams (with proper fuses). Will I be able to charge this lipo through one of the cameras? Yes, I know it will be a looooong charge cycle, perhaps overnight, but the question is will that charge circuit work if it's connected parallel to two cameras? I guess if not, I could just disconnect one of the cameras while charging.
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
So it appears that the charge circuit is built into the camera.

I'm planning to install an single cell lipo around 3000 ma into my glider, and parallel out to two wing cams (with proper fuses). Will I be able to charge this lipo through one of the cameras? Yes, I know it will be a looooong charge cycle, perhaps overnight, but the question is will that charge circuit work if it's connected parallel to two cameras? I guess if not, I could just disconnect one of the cameras while charging.
The #11 has always had a charge management chip it it, too. The #16 has dropped the max charge current down to about 140 mA (.56C rate for the 250 mAH lipo) during the CC phase of the charge cycle. I don't know what it was in the #11... maybe more like 1C rate (250 mA). But it was felt to be too high and might be responsible for early battery failures... that and the external special cable charging which totally bypassed the charge management IC, relying on the small battery protection circuit board in the cell wrapping to bracket the voltage to acceptable levels. The small 250 mAh cell in the camera take 2 to 2-1/2 hour to fully charge from a depleted state. Charging a 3000 mAh at least 12 times longer, maybe more, and the long term charging heat stress would not be good for the camera. I'd bag that idea... charge that big cell with your dedicate lipo charger.
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 02:20 PM
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Time Out

I just want to advise it will be a couple weeks before I start to populate the first few "INFO" posts here... I'll be on vacation and may only check in here once in a while.

I doubt many will get their camera before the New year anyway, so if you have some spare time while you're waiting, download Isoprop's configuration GUI and get familiar with it. You can give the time/date and function setting processes some trial runs if you have any flash drive connected to the computer. It doesn't have to be the camera drive to get the toggles to function, but a flash drive must be selected to activate the toggles and other routines that guide you through the process. You'll be able to generate (and open/examine) the configuration text file the GUI creates and the camera uses to load in your settings. You can edit the config file manually, if desired, with a plain text editor by setting the different "key" numbers shown in the config file.

If you have any questions or comments on the GUI interface functioning, feel free to post here. We've done a lot of testing, but likely have overlooked some thing in the rush to get the tool ready for the camera's release.

Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays to all who celebrate at this time of year!
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 02:24 PM
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Merry Christmas Tom!
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 03:22 PM
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Sweet work. I want one!
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 03:31 PM
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Have a good Xmas, hope the wather holds up for you.
Mike
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 04:06 PM
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 04:21 PM
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Do you think it would be possible to extend the cable going from the len to the main board? I would love to put the main board/battery away from where I would like the lens
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 04:34 PM
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 04:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZCanuck View Post
How about no battery

Run the camera(s) off the RX if your ESC has enough capacity. I don't recommend this for anyone who doesn't know what they are doing. The camera has the internal battery removed but the PCB that was on the LiPo is internally installed on the #11. On the final released version of the #16 we will have to wait to see if the charge circuit is on the LiPo or the main PCB.

Rather than an external battery I connect to an unused channel on the RX with the + and - and no signal wire.

On my Easy Star I use a Turnegy 30A Plush or Turnegy Sentry 30A which have 2A @ 5V on the BEC which is more than enough to handle the extra load of the 808 #11 which I measure at about 260ma plus all servos

On my Radian the stock eFlite 30A ESC only delivers 700ma so it is NG. Change to Turnegy 30A on the Radian ( 2A BEC ) or Turnegy 40A Plush or Sentry with a 3A BEC. On my Radian Pro with 6 servos plus motor the 700ma stock ESC is definately NG. I use 40A Turnegy Sentry with 3A BEC

Another alternative is a standalone BEC and don't use the one on the ESC.

Here's the #11 drawing 260ma on record ( no lights ) Ya the meter is reversed but it is still 260ma

https://blu162.mail.live.com/?rru=in...65DDCB92%21689

Click "View original" to zoom in for details.
Your link doesn't work for me. Are you connecting 5V directly to the battery terminals on the #11 circuit board? I presume so, and the #11 was designed to handle that via the "special" cable wiring. The #16 does not have that, so I would not recommend going straight to the battery terminals on the circuit board with 5V on the #16. But you could go straight to the USB mini plug with standard USB pin outs.

Both #11 and #16 have battery charge management ICs on the circuitboard. The protection board on the cell only cuts power to/from the battery if over/under voltage is present. The #11 bypassed the charge management IC with the special cable and went straight to parallel connection with the internal battery relying on the battery protection board to chop power from the 5V source from reaching the battery terminals. The camera circuit was designed for that.
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 04:57 PM
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Main reason is the easy place to put the lens and the rest away in harms way. I tend to fly low by FPV through trees etc. I would like the camera to last longer than my #11
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 05:11 PM
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Hi Tom/Isoprop,

The GUI based configurator looks very good. It way more convenient that how #11 was done. Not sure if this has been asked before but would it have the functionality of updating future #16 firmwares?

Really appreciate all your hard work to make this camera better.
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 05:15 PM
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Tom and Isoprop, I can't thank you two enough! Just looking over the specs and notes real quick, I think this new #16 will be the #11 that we always wanted. I'm happy to see the developer reading, listening, and actually caring about our wants/needs. Despite having just ordered a Jumbo #11 a couple days ago, I've ordered the #16 as well. (Better send eletoponline a message and see if it's too late the stop the Jumbo from shipping out... lol)

I can't wait to try this one out when it gets here!
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LevTor View Post
Hi Tom/Isoprop,

The GUI based configurator looks very good. It way more convenient that how #11 was done. Not sure if this has been asked before but would it have the functionality of updating future #16 firmwares?

Really appreciate all your hard work to make this camera better.
The firmware updating is so simple it doesn't need a GUI to do it. You simply copy the firmware file to the camera flash card and turn on the camera, the detects and loads the firmware automatically, then turns itself off! Then delete the firmware file from the card by either of two methods described in the Camera HELP file in the GUI. If you have the GUI and have not looked in the HELP file... DO SO! It will answer just about every question you have on how the camera functions. You won't need any written user guides with the camera when you have the GUI!
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 05:24 PM
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Any video samples of the #16 out yet?
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sim_io View Post
Any video samples of the #16 out yet?
Go to the #11 thread... latter discussion there is mostly #16 stuff... with video samples.
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 06:08 PM
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Old Dec 17, 2011, 12:12 AM
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Ordered my yesterday...probably will not see it until the new year ....oh well...something to look forward to :-) Hope the extra battery comes with it too!
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Old Dec 17, 2011, 01:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kingsnake11 View Post
Ordered my yesterday...probably will not see it until the new year ....oh well...something to look forward to :-) Hope the extra battery comes with it too!
Kingsnake11,

Did you request a the bonus/free battery from Peter in the 'Message to Seller'?
(I also emailed him after the went through, as I didn't think all my text fitted into the 'Message to Seller' text box)
He replied to me within 5 minutes, and mind you, this was at about 3am AUS/HK time) with the the following:

I ASKED THIS:
Hi (Peter?) I'm ordering the #16 Camera from you due to great work of
Tom Frank on RCGroups, he has started a new thread dedicated to the #16 Camera here
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showt...4#post20152980

I would like to request the free battery if possible?
I'd also like to know how much it would cost include the 'special' car
charger lead as I would like to get that as well.

Regards, Bill Langfield.
(My name on RCG is 'Fugitive_Bill')


Peter replied with this:
Hi friend,
Thank you for your purchase and your email. Of course we will include a spare battery as a gift for you. Thank you for your kind support!
Hope you will like this new model. :-)
Thanks & regards,
Peter


So if you did not do that I hope it's not too late to send him an email requesting the bonus battery.

While I'm waiting for the #16 to arrive I'll be going over ISOPROP's great #16 programming program and Manual to learn how to use and perhaps make some suggestions - but I think He and Tom have it all covered!

(But from I've read, I don't think the 'special' car lead works on the #16 anyway?)

B!LL!
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Old Dec 17, 2011, 08:14 AM
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#16 on the way.

Thank you Tom Frank.
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Old Dec 17, 2011, 03:21 PM
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#16 on the way

Ordered the 16 yesterday and surmise it will be here soon. They said they will include an extra battery. The next step will be a global shutter. Thank you Tom and all those that are involved in the photo-video project. LATER captndon
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Old Dec 17, 2011, 08:30 PM
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Loop Recording and Audio corruption in the No. 16

Iso
I think these querys may be more up you alley having made the cool utility.

sorry if this has been discussed earlier, or if I've mis-understood what this #16 will do.. I haven't been following the thread often lately.. but I am curious about the No 16 with respect to the audio quality as the cam runs low on battery..

Does the No 16 behave differently than the No 11 and continue to put out good audio to the end of battery?

will it close the file properly and save it before it stops recording due to low battery?

Also if I've put it in a continuous recording loop mode, do I need to set the length in minutes to tell it when to start over-writing? or , is it smart enough to auto detect and over write when it should on any size micro SD chip? .. or do i need to manually compute and tell it the proper recording length
Regards, JimS
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Old Dec 17, 2011, 09:08 PM
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I just ordered mine. Didn't see any place on paypal to add a message about the free battery, so I just sent a message from the 'contact seller' screen of my purchase. We shall see.
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Old Dec 17, 2011, 09:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Iso
I think these querys may be more up you alley having made the cool utility.

sorry if this has been discussed earlier, or if I've mis-understood what this #16 will do.. I haven't been following the thread often lately.. but I am curious about the No 16 with respect to the audio quality as the cam runs low on battery..

Does the No 16 behave differently than the No 11 and continue to put out good audio to the end of battery?

will it close the file properly and save it before it stops recording due to low battery?

Also if I've put it in a continuous recording loop mode, do I need to set the length in minutes to tell it when to start over-writing? or , is it smart enough to auto detect and over write when it should on any size micro SD chip? .. or do i need to manually compute and tell it the proper recording length
Regards, JimS
No more audio buzzing. File saved when bettery dies. Loop requires 5 min. clip length, as the GUI will mandate.
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Old Dec 17, 2011, 09:28 PM
CURIOSITY Has Landed!
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Originally Posted by mark_a_l View Post
I just ordered mine. Didn't see any place on paypal to add a message about the free battery, so I just sent a message from the 'contact seller' screen of my purchase. We shall see.
Well as you see in post #47 above, that's all I did and it worked.
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Old Dec 17, 2011, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Fugitive_Bill View Post
Well as you see in post #47 above, that's all I did and it worked.
Yep, already got a confirmation.
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Old Dec 18, 2011, 07:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
Iso
I think these querys may be more up you alley having made the cool utility.

sorry if this has been discussed earlier, or if I've mis-understood what this #16 will do.. I haven't been following the thread often lately.. but I am curious about the No 16 with respect to the audio quality as the cam runs low on battery..

Does the No 16 behave differently than the No 11 and continue to put out good audio to the end of battery?

will it close the file properly and save it before it stops recording due to low battery?

Also if I've put it in a continuous recording loop mode, do I need to set the length in minutes to tell it when to start over-writing? or , is it smart enough to auto detect and over write when it should on any size micro SD chip? .. or do i need to manually compute and tell it the proper recording length
Regards, JimS
Although I wrote the utility, Tom did most of the testing , but I'll elaborate on Tom's reply.

The audio buzzing when the battery runs low has been solved.

The last file is also saved correctly when the battery gets low - but that was also solved with some of the latest #11 firmware versions.

If you use the GUI, which I hope you do, and you click loop recording, then you will see that the clip length will automatically be adjusted to 5 mins. This is a safety measure to prevent overwriting too much data. Loop recording always records 5 minute S/S/C clips. It will always overwite the oldest clips. I have tested this function and it works well.

Before anyone else asks, if you edit the config file yourself, which I don't recommend, and you set another clip length than 5 mins., the camera will still only record 5 min. clips. This is why it is much better to always use the GUI to set the values. There are also other combinations that won't work together, but the GUI will always show you the valid combinations. You will not be able to select invalid combinations.

If you edit the file yourself without using the GUI, and the camera doesn't perform as expected, then it's your own fault!
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Old Dec 18, 2011, 03:52 PM
Wid
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Can I use 5 volt bec to power camera through external battery connector? The reason I hesitate to use the USB is the weight of the cords is significant in the small, light glider where I am putting several cameras, hoping to get a plane's eye view of soaring with vultures similar to
http://www.pacificsites.com/~wid/per...widspage3.html
If I need to use the USB can some one point me to a source for lightweight (2 wire?)cords. So far I've only been able to find them connected to power supplies and I don't want to spend the bucks for unneeded power supplies.
Thanks
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Old Dec 18, 2011, 05:13 PM
KC
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You could solder one up with the mini USB plug (link below) to a servo extension.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2pcs-5-Pin-M...#ht_3766wt_956

KC
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Old Dec 18, 2011, 06:09 PM
Wid
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Thanks KC. That ought to do it, assuming my soldering skills are up to it.
Still wondering if I can safely put 5 volts in the external battery plug.
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Old Dec 18, 2011, 06:21 PM
KC
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Yes, that will work too.

Have a look at this post.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=8209

KC
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Old Dec 18, 2011, 08:10 PM
Dance the skies...
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Originally Posted by Wid View Post
Thanks KC. That ought to do it, assuming my soldering skills are up to it.
Still wondering if I can safely put 5 volts in the external battery plug.
If you are referring to the tiny internal battery connection plug, then NO... DO NOT PUT 5V ON THAT CONNECTION UNTIl IT'S KNOW IF THE CIRCUITRY CAN HANDLE IT. The #11 circuit could manange 5V but, but it a totally different circuit board design. That small plug is not mean to be an external power supply plug (like the USB plug is). You could safely put a larger single cell lipo on the internal plug, though, but the recharge time will get even worse than it is. Best to charge external single lipo cells with a dedicated external charger.charger
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Old Dec 18, 2011, 08:12 PM
Dance the skies...
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Originally Posted by KC View Post
Yes, that will work too.

Have a look at this post.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=8209

KC
If you read the posts that precede the one you linked, you'd note that small plug is not to be used for 5V input... the USB port is designed for that voltage... the battery connection point may not be.
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Old Dec 18, 2011, 08:16 PM
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Ordered the #16 two hours after I ordered the #11.
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Old Dec 18, 2011, 08:17 PM
Dance the skies...
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#16 Night Video

Knowing that the #16 is not good in low light, I shot some video in the dark of night of a Christmas boat parade where I am vacationing. The Christmas lights decorating the boats recorded in remarkable detail and clarity, except for when my hand-held motion blurred the image. A tripod or monopod support would have made it even better. Here' an edited down clip:

#16 HD Key Cam at night (3 min 55 sec)
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Old Dec 18, 2011, 10:11 PM
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Thanks for the Info Bill...I did add some words to the message box but I wonder too if it actually went through..I'll email him as you suggest. Thanks again.
ks
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 06:35 AM
Just thumbing through...
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Has anyone done aerial video yet? Just wondering about jello with the slower shutter speed.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 07:28 AM
ptg
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Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
Has anyone done aerial video yet? Just wondering about jello with the slower shutter speed.
Wait week or two...
Mine was sent today
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
Has anyone done aerial video yet? Just wondering about jello with the slower shutter speed.
Yes how is that, I don't get it "slower shutter" and still 30 fps? I always told that faster is better, how is this "improvement"
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 11:15 AM
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Hey guys I'm new to the forum and looking forward to that sweet new camera. I thought I would say if it would be possible to do some type of timelapse, I think it should be relatively easy to people with knowledge of programming.

I think it would be a great implementation into these cameras!

Bye guys!

Also, can the free battery be easily plugged and continue recording footage or it's just to use it when it breaks ?
And does the free battery offer expires some day?
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by LevTor View Post
Hi Tom/Isoprop,

The GUI based configurator looks very good. It way more convenient that how #11 was done. Not sure if this has been asked before but would it have the functionality of updating future #16 firmwares?

Really appreciate all your hard work to make this camera better.
I know Tom has already answered your question a few days ago, but I'd also like to give you my rather long answer, from a programmer's point of view.

I agree that a lot of people are afraid of updating firmware "by hand". However, the #16 really does make it very easy UNLESS you don't (yet) know what root folders are, and even then, you can't do much harm as long as you follow the instructions.

I considered writing a fully automatic updater a long time ago, in the early days of the #11. My plan was to have all the firmware versions fully integrated into the updater program. However, this would lead to a very large program if there were more than one or two firmware versions available. It is, therefore, not practical to do it this way. Method abolished.

Another method would have been to develop a separate program, which had the firmware code embedded, for each firmware version available. This would be possible and even fairly simple to implement, but then I got worried about how people would start screaming if they bricked there camera... (see remaining possibility below) Method abolished.

Yet another method would have been to point the program to the firmware file, but this would most probably be packed (zipped), or maybe not? If the user is capable of pointing the program to the firmware file, then he should also know what a rood folder is. And if he has the knowledge, why does he need an automatic updater? Method abolished.

The remaining possibility would have been to download the firmware from a "hidden" web address which also contained information about the actual firmware, similar to what can be found on Tom's firmware download page.
As long as the user had a fairly fast internet connection, this method would work. Unfortunately, it would require quite a bit of serious programming, not only on the PC end, but also on the web end. The program would obviously be pretty sluggish because it would first have to present the web information to the user. I could write such a program but I don't think it would be used by many people, and it would take quite a while to test and iron out the bugs. I would also have to maintain the "hidden" web address and maybe even offer the possibility for the Windows program to check for updates. All this would be possible, but would lead to a full-blown "application" for a camera that may exist maybe 1-2 years max. It's just too much work! And I could just hear all those people screaming when their camera got bricked! (not because of the program, but who's to prove it!). Project abandoned

As you can see, I did consider writing a utility. Who knows what may happen in the future, but I certainly wouldn't write such a program without the OK from the manufacturer. Time will tell, but I'm sure there will be a lot less bricked #16 cameras because of firmware updates. For the #16, I consider a program updater totally unnecessary. The update process is now a piece of cake and no longer a risky process. Also, it is no longer really needed because all the parameters can be set with the configuration tool.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 11:22 AM
Why is the Rum gone?
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I was gonna get a #16 then the next day 1080p HD Go Pros were going for $129.99
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by kasuno View Post
Hey guys I'm new to the forum and looking forward to that sweet new camera. I thought I would say if it would be possible to do some type of timelapse, I think it should be relatively easy to people with knowledge of programming.

I think it would be a great implementation into these cameras!

Bye guys!
Time lapse is not implemented, and could only be implemented by the manufacturer, not by us "programmers"!

I also suspect that the camera's program memory space is almost used up which would make implementing time lapse in this tiny camera impossible. But who knows?...

Hardware modifications can be found for other models and these could certainly be used with the #16. The modification electronically presses the shutter button to take a picture every x seconds. Quite a few modifications have been published, but they are, obviously, all hardware based.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by kasuno View Post
Also, can the free battery be easily plugged and continue recording footage or it's just to use it when it breaks ?
And does the free battery offer expires some day?
The free battery is a replacement battery (for when the existing battery dies). It has a small plug (see Tom's post here). Officially, you need an external USB power supply for continuous recording.

The Free battery offer expires 31 Dec. 2011.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 02:02 PM
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So I can't switch easily between battery to record more stuff?
I just would like to record more minutes but no continuous.

Thanks guys for your effort!
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by kasuno View Post
So I can't switch easily between battery to record more stuff?
I just would like to record more minutes but no continuous.

Thanks guys for your effort!
Just plug in an external USB battery pack and you're done! That's one thing the USB plug is for. At the same time you'll also be charging the internal battery. It can't get much simpler
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 02:51 PM
Kiwi in Germany
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What if you wanted to remove that weight and just fly it off the main battery? Could you use the bec on the esc or does it produce too much noise?

Does the battery have to be connected?
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by kasuno View Post
So I can't switch easily between battery to record more stuff?
I just would like to record more minutes but no continuous.

Thanks guys for your effort!
Try this. http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=8190
I am not shure if this will work with this #16 camera too, but with #3 it works. And if you give there a tiny switch, you can switch between small battery and between bigger battery which you can very easily disconnect if battery inside camera is using.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 05:17 PM
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But that's just very complicated stuff at least it looks like. I just want to know if I can easily open the cam and put the full charged battery to record more footage.
If that would be possible we could record like the double of time.

I suppose if it has a connector it must be easy.
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Old Dec 19, 2011, 06:48 PM
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Originally Posted by whakahere View Post
What if you wanted to remove that weight and just fly it off the main battery? Could you use the bec on the esc or does it produce too much noise?

Does the battery have to be connected?
I've run #11 keycams off the BEC all the time with 0 issues.
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 12:50 AM
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Wide angle Lens request @ HobbyKing.com

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
This is a sample video clip shot with a 120 deg. wide angle lens hacked into a #11 "BWM" Jumbo camera (see photo below). <EDIT>The most difficult (or impossible) part of this hack might be removing the stock lens! The early cameras had very lightly glued-in-place threaded lenses. Later they started using VERY solid bonding of the threads, making it virtually impossible to refocus or unscrew the lens from the module. Several have tried and broken the module or lens.<EDIT> The wide angle lens has threads that fit the stock CMOS module in the camera, so if you can removed the stock lens and add the new lens, the CMOS module can be relocated slightly aft in the camera case with a hole cut in the case to allow the lens to fit flush with the front of the camera case. The lens can be moved aft even more than shown (the case partially obstructs the view if too far back). Also, I think the lens would benefit from a lens hood on the front of the camera, both to block unwanted off-axis light from washing out the image, and to prevent inadvertent scratching of the lens. There is a bit of a "hazy" appearance in the video in diffused light, but some of that could be due to slight "burnishing" of the front lens surface lens coating from handling before I got it.

The focus is about as good as I could make it, but still shows degradation near the frame edges with a lot of fisheye distortion as expected with a 120 deg. lens. But the angle of view is about twice that of the stock lens, and might be suitable for some users needs.

If anyone is interested in this hack, I don't have any information on availability or cost of the lens yet (it was requested), or whether it might be sold as an accessory by one of the #11 vendors. The camera and lens was donated for my evaluation by Hxelepro360 (Diana's store) on eBay. If I get more information, I'll post it here, but make sure your Jumbo camera is one that has a removable stock lens before proceeding!

#11 Jumbo "Hero Wannabe"
An update on the mysterious Wide Angle lens:

It appears that the "HD Wing Camera" from HobbieKing.com is the same type as the prototype sent to Tom.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._5MP_CMOS.html

**{This cam has been mentioned before, but if your interested it does have a video out feature.
(although it's video is not on-par with the HD808 cams) }

This is the relative size to the 808 Cam:




The lens thread matches that of the 808 Camera modules



I started a forum thread as a petition for Hobbie King to supply the lens 'a la carte'

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/f...=162299#162299

If you are interested in adding this to your #16 cam (the only one 'guaranteed' to have a removable lens at this stage)
then you can leave a "me too" under this thread.


I'll see if I can get some video samples, If I get the chance to operate on one of my 808's. If not, I'll have some when my #16 comes
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 04:40 AM
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Can someone please measure the angle of view and 35mm equiv. of the new #16?
From the comparison video it looks like the #11 gets about 10% more than the #16. If the #11 is like a 38mm lens, then the #16 is around 42mm (in 35mm terms).

http://www.chucklohr.com/808/C8/ shows how to work it out, by seeing how much of a ruler/tape is caught from a known distance, using a bit of simple trig.

Seems a shame to lose that 10% of the useful wide angle that my #11's lens gives me, I think I'll stick with it and not 'upgrade'

Thanks
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 06:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Type8 View Post
Can someone please measure the angle of view and 35mm equiv. of the new #16?
From the comparison video it looks like the #11 gets about 10% more than the #16. If the #11 is like a 38mm lens, then the #16 is around 42mm (in 35mm terms).

http://www.chucklohr.com/808/C8/ shows how to work it out, by seeing how much of a ruler/tape is caught from a known distance, using a bit of simple trig.

Seems a shame to lose that 10% of the useful wide angle that my #11's lens gives me, I think I'll stick with it and not 'upgrade'

Thanks
You're almost bang on! A quick test gives me 42.6°, if I got everything squared up correctly. It's still worth the upgrade, IMO. Tom has told us that the manufacture tested many different lenses before he decided which one gave the best results in terms of picture quality. Simple trig? Maybe for you
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 07:18 AM
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then the #16 is around 42mm (in 35mm terms)
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Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
You're almost bang on! A quick test gives me 42.6°
Thanks! Is that 42 degrees (horiz. angle of view) or 42 mm (35mm equiv)?
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 07:25 AM
808 lover
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You could just put a wide angle lens or a fisheye lens.
But do you think if I use it for biking it would fall the fisheye?
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 08:22 AM
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Thanks for the replies and the No 16 video..

Iso=
Great reply to my query on the Audio buzz: as now fixed, And the fixed 5 Minute Loop mode recording time limit.. as well as all the other amplifying remarks on lots of other No 16 and your utility's features..

Tom,
excellent Night Video of the parade of lighted boats on the water.. I did not see the one here in San Diego of this same type event, but bet yours was just as good.. i particularly like the last Heli Santa..

I'm hoping to see a side by side day time video of a No 11 and a No 16 strapped onto the same recording platform, and sync'd shooting in your back yard .. or where ever.. .. I like Kodak colors from the No 11 so am eager to see this difference.. and hear about any significant differences in technique that may be needed while editing it's video file output..

Just went back and found your No11 post 7942.. and i like it especially when shooting into a the sky.. i will assume we are getting the On Steroids lens too..

BTW i requested the free No 16 battery and paid him for a couple No 11 batteries too.. and Peter said he would put them all in a box and ship as of yesterday..


Thanks guys for the great tips..
Regards, JimS
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 08:33 AM
Just thumbing through...
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The HK Wing lens has no vignetting or hotspot. It does have uneven focus, I adjusted for center at infinity, edges closer, that works if you want to see some of the plane in the foreground. I would like to see how the lens works on my #11, but I'll wait for rcJosh tests
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Type8 View Post
Thanks! Is that 42 degrees (horiz. angle of view) or 42 mm (35mm equiv)?
That's degrees, exactly as noted on the ChuckLohr site.

15.6 cm shown at 20 cm distance.

Angle = ((15.6 / 2) / 20) [inv] [tan] = ~21.31 * 2 = 42.6°

HTH
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
15.6 cm shown at 20 cm distance.
Angle = ((15.6 / 2) / 20) [inv] [tan] = ~21.31 * 2 = 42.6°
Brilliant, spot on, perfect

I used http://www.howardedin.com/articles/fov.html to calculate a list of values and found that's almost exactly a 46mm in 35mm terms.

That's a noticeable bit more tele than my 38mm #11, like putting a 1.2x teleconvertor on it, if I understand correctly how the maths works! Still a lot better than the 80-something mm fixed zoom of the #8 key though.
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 10:41 AM
Dance the skies...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcJosh View Post
An update on the mysterious Wide Angle lens:

It appears that the "HD Wing Camera" from HobbieKing.com is the same type as the prototype sent to Tom.
http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/s..._5MP_CMOS.html

**{This cam has been mentioned before, but if your interested it does have a video out feature.
(although it's video is not on-par with the HD808 cams) }

This is the relative size to the 808 Cam:




The lens thread matches that of the 808 Camera modules



I started a forum thread as a petition for Hobbie King to supply the lens 'a la carte'

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/f...=162299#162299

If you are interested in adding this to your #16 cam (the only one 'guaranteed' to have a removable lens at this stage)
then you can leave a "me too" under this thread.


I'll see if I can get some video samples, If I get the chance to operate on one of my 808's. If not, I'll have some when my #16 comes
The HK camera is not made by the same developer as the #11 & #16, so there is no direct correlation between circuit board components. The #11 & #16 have a 7mm lens thread, and I'm 99% sure the older SD resolution 808 cameras have a 6mm lens thread, so I'm skeptical that the HK lens will fit the #11 & #16 if you've confirmed it fits the older SD 808s. Let us know what you find out. If it does fit (without wobbling in the base), I'll be interested to see some video examples. I took some more sample clips in brighter light side-by-side with the #16 and #11 Jumbo with the 120 deg. lens to show the difference. I will post a composite side-by-side video when I get back from vacation.
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 10:59 AM
Dance the skies...
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Originally Posted by jims123 View Post
...
Just went back and found your No11 post 7942.. and i like it especially when shooting into a the sky.. i will assume we are getting the On Steroids lens too..

BTW i requested the free No 16 battery and paid him for a couple No 11 batteries too.. and Peter said he would put them all in a box and ship as of yesterday..
...
Regards, JimS
The lens is the same in all the sample video I shot and posted in the #11 Thread for the pre-release #16. But, the firmware has been updated since that "on steroid" clip. That clip was broken into several sub-clips, each of which I did some (different) color correction onto get similar-looking clips. The updated firmware gives more consistent colors in the different lighting conditions I had when shooting those clips, so requires less manipulation. Those who like the over-saturated look may not be happy with the resulting video, even if it's closer to reality. In brighter light like I'm shooting in right now on vacation, the colors are brighter, but I'm seeing some other artifacts that might be problematic.

I've gotten some word that firmware is still being tweaked, and some improvement in the slower shutter speed we were seeing in the current firmware has been has been done. I have not yet received any updated firmware for testing, though.
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 11:33 AM
DPN
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I have some 1600 mAh - 2200 mAh single cell 3.7V Lipos that I have used with my #11 cameras, after adding a JST connector that I let hang out the rear of the camera like a "rat tail". I had the connector soldered to the same connections on the circuit board as the internal battery, so the external battery and the internal battery were parallel. I could get 5 hours of video with a 16 GB SD card. Not necessary on my planes but I also go on long bicycle rides and always record my rides, so I want a lightweight, helmet mountable external battery...

I am planning on building a "Y" connector for the #16 that would allow me to have the internal battery connected plus have the other leg of the "Y" hanging out the rear of the camera a la "rat tail" into which I would plug my external Lipos. I use a dedicated Lipo charger to charge the external batteries. I never have an external Lipo connected to the camera when using the USB charger with the camera.

I will leave the charge protection circuit on the internal battery, but my external batteries have no circuitry as they are charged by a Lipo charger. I assumed that a freshly charged external Lipo would charge and equalize the internal battery if it wasn't fully charged. Is that correct? Since it is no more than 4.2 V there's no way for it to overcharge the internal battery, correct?

Is there any danger of doing this? I would prefer NOT to use the USB port to connect an external battery pack, since that is looking for 5V and my charged Lipos are no more than 4.2V max. Plus, the USB plugs are bulky and heavy as well...

What am I missing? Thanks in advance...

DPN

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Just plug in an external USB battery pack and you're done! That's one thing the USB plug is for. At the same time you'll also be charging the internal battery. It can't get much simpler
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 12:55 PM
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victapilot's Avatar
United States, SC, Simpsonville
Joined Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
The HK camera is not made by the same developer as the #11 & #16, so there is no direct correlation between circuit board components. The #11 & #16 have a 7mm lens thread, and I'm 99% sure the older SD resolution 808 cameras have a 6mm lens thread, so I'm skeptical that the HK lens will fit the #11 & #16 if you've confirmed it fits the older SD 808s. Let us know what you find out. If it does fit (without wobbling in the base), I'll be interested to see some video examples. I took some more sample clips in brighter light side-by-side with the #16 and #11 Jumbo with the 120 deg. lens to show the difference. I will post a composite side-by-side video when I get back from vacation.
The HK Wing lens barrel is also 7mm. Question remains if the image will fit the #11/#16 cmos chip
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 01:02 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DPN View Post
I have some 1600 mAh - 2200 mAh single cell 3.7V Lipos that I have used with my #11 cameras, after adding a JST connector that I let hang out the rear of the camera like a "rat tail". I had the connector soldered to the same connections on the circuit board as the internal battery, so the external battery and the internal battery were parallel. I could get 5 hours of video with a 16 GB SD card. Not necessary on my planes but I also go on long bicycle rides and always record my rides, so I want a lightweight, helmet mountable external battery...

I am planning on building a "Y" connector for the #16 that would allow me to have the internal battery connected plus have the other leg of the "Y" hanging out the rear of the camera a la "rat tail" into which I would plug my external Lipos. I use a dedicated Lipo charger to charge the external batteries. I never have an external Lipo connected to the camera when using the USB charger with the camera.

I will leave the charge protection circuit on the internal battery, but my external batteries have no circuitry as they are charged by a Lipo charger. I assumed that a freshly charged external Lipo would charge and equalize the internal battery if it wasn't fully charged. Is that correct? Since it is no more than 4.2 V there's no way for it to overcharge the internal battery, correct?

Is there any danger of doing this? I would prefer NOT to use the USB port to connect an external battery pack, since that is looking for 5V and my charged Lipos are no more than 4.2V max. Plus, the USB plugs are bulky and heavy as well...

What am I missing? Thanks in advance...

DPN
Over all, you've got the best procedure if a 5V supply is not available, with one caveat... An external battery should not be connected in parallel with the internal battery unless they are at very close to the same voltage levels. The reason for this is the batteries will equalize their voltages, and if the internal battery is a lower voltage than the external battery, it will be charged with no current regulation like a dedicated lipo charger has. The #16 has limited it's max. current for charging to only about 140mA during the constant-current portion of the lipo charge cycle. You can easily exceed this when connecting the external battery, and the small protection circuit board on the internal lipo only limits voltage within a max/min range (assuming it functions like the ones on the earlier 808 cameras). There is no current regulation when you bypass the camera's internal charge management IC, which is only functional when charging through the USB plug. So the best procedure is to charge the camera battery first via it's USB plug, then connect a fully charged external pack.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Dec 20, 2011 at 02:31 PM. Reason: changed 140A to 140 mA :-/
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 01:09 PM
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victapilot's Avatar
United States, SC, Simpsonville
Joined Feb 2009
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A comparison of #11 and HK Wing
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 01:27 PM
DPN
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Tom,

Thank you much!

I will use USB charging for the internal battery, and when it is fully charged THEN connect the fully charged external battery...

DPN

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Over all, you've got the best procedure if a 5V supply is not available, with one caveat... An external battery should not be connected in parallel with the internal battery unless they are at very close to the same voltage levels. The reason for this is the batteries will equalize their voltages, and if the internal battery is a lower voltage than the external battery, it will be charged with no current regulation like a dedicated lipo charger has. The #16 has limited it's max. current for charging to only about 140A during the constant-current portion of the lipo charge cycle. You can easily exceed this when connecting the external battery, and the small protection circuit board on the internal lipo only limits voltage within a max/min range (assuming it functions like the ones on the earlier 808 cameras). There is no current regulation when you bypass the camera's internal charge management IC, which is only functional when charging through the USB plug. So the best procedure is to charge the camera battery first via it's USB plug, then connect a fully charged external pack.
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Last edited by DPN; Dec 20, 2011 at 01:28 PM. Reason: clarity
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 02:00 PM
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United Kingdom, Bracknell
Joined Nov 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcJosh View Post
I started a forum thread as a petition for Hobbie King to supply the lens 'a la carte'

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/f...=162299#162299

If you are interested in adding this to your #16 cam (the only one 'guaranteed' to have a removable lens at this stage)
then you can leave a "me too" under this thread.
Done!
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 03:14 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
A comparison of #11 and HK Wing
Quote:
Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
The HK Wing lens barrel is also 7mm. Question remains if the image will fit the #11/#16 cmos chip
The HK lens is spec'ed at 120 deg., as is the one I got from the #16 developer, which I measured to confirm it is 120 deg. nominal from corner to corner. Here are two frame grabs taken from the same spot at the same time to compare the AOV and focus differences between the #16 lens and the 120 deg. lens on a Jumbo #11:
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Dec 20, 2011 at 03:35 PM.
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 03:32 PM
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kasuno's Avatar
Espaņa, CT, Barcelona
Joined Dec 2011
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The #11 Jumbo looks more defined than the #16. :/
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 03:34 PM
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victapilot's Avatar
United States, SC, Simpsonville
Joined Feb 2009
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Tom - Nice pictures!

Any chance that the developers could supply the lens or incorporated in a new cam? It could be a GoPro killer, the AOV of the GoPro is just too wide for me.
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 03:41 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
Tom - Nice pictures!

Any chance that the developers could supply the lens or incorporated in a new cam? It could be a GoPro killer, the AOV of the GoPro is just too wide for me.
I've requested a couple of times from the Ebay vendor who sent me the sample lens/camera for testing if they can source the lens for us. So far, I've gotten no definitive info. I can try going directly to the developer... seems there is interest in the lens. I plan to post a comparative side by side video when I get back home (I'm on vacation in Florida right now), but I may be able to D/L some avisynth scripts to combine the two videos into one from here. I'm enjoying the Seattle Summer weather right now!
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 03:45 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasuno View Post
The #11 Jumbo looks more defined than the #16. :/
You are not looking at the edges of the images, then.
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