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Old Dec 29, 2012, 11:23 AM
Ascended Master
Sparky Paul's Avatar
Palmdale, CA
Joined Oct 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerCut View Post
I have no clue what you are talking about.

How come the #16V1 has 90 degrees with the D lens, but the #16 V2 has 120 degrees? can I take the lens/camera sensor from the V1 and use it in the V2 perhaps and get 90 degrees with the #16V2 -which will have video output?
.
Those values for FOV are -advertising-???
The actual values are shown here.
Note the extreme distortion at the edges of the D lens.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 11:35 AM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Comments in blue below.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerCut View Post
I have no clue what you are talking about.

Neither does anyone else Just ignore posts like this.!

How come the #16V1 has 90 degrees with the D lens, but the #16 V2 has 120 degrees? can I take the lens/camera sensor from the V1 and use it in the V2 perhaps and get 90 degrees with the #16V2 -which will have video output?

The camera version (V1 or V2) is not a factor in this, other than only the V2 has the video out capability. The lens modules are the difference, and there are three options, all interchangeable between V1 and V2 cameras. Search this thread or look in the FAQ page (post#3) for links to the lens discussions. Lens B is closer to what you want, but is has noticeable vignetting and color change at the edges and corners. Better lenses are still being evaluated and may become available as time goes by.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Dec 29, 2012 at 11:40 AM. Reason: changed structure
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 11:53 AM
Just thumbing through...
victapilot's Avatar
United States, SC, Simpsonville
Joined Feb 2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky Paul View Post
.
Those values for FOV are -advertising-???
The actual values are shown here.
Note the extreme distortion at the edges of the D lens.
Advertised 120deg

http://item.mobileweb.ebay.com/viewi...d=181010633924

Try the beer can method
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 11:58 AM
USA, NY, Brooklyn
Joined Jan 2002
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So the #16v1 and #16v2 both with a D lens would have 120degree fov?

how come this site:
http://www.chucklohr.com/808/C16/

says the #16 has 90degrees with the D lens
and the #16v2 has 120degrees with the D lens?

I have a feeling that the sensor chip is slightly different, but the lenses are the same... So shouldn't I get 90degrees fov on the #16v2 (which has live output) if I were to swap sensor chips between the two?
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 12:02 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victapilot View Post
I have not tested the sound features, but if I did I would look at the audio track in a sound editor to see if the low levels were increased, or the high levels truncated
Otherwise it could be the video player equalizing the sound.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LittleMo View Post
Yes I noticed the same thing. Since the camera is new to me I thought maybe it's just something I don't understand which is why I never mentioned it. No matter the setting the recorded audio is the same loudness (well, except maybe for "off/none" which I haven't tried).

I would love to make it louder/more sensitive though because when I'm recording my micro aircraft they are so quiet that the video is basically silent unless I do post-process amplification.
Quote:
Originally Posted by timetec View Post
I haven't posted for a very long time and hope everyone has had an enjoyable break

I'd like to run something past #16 users re the 'Audio Volume' setting in the Recording options of the GUI used for changing the camera's parameters.
I've been using both the latest version of Iso's Nr16Setup (3.0.3) and Java 'Config Assist' platform, but have the same issue, to which I can't find a solution :

The adjustments Low, Medium and High seem to make no difference to the level of the recorded audio after the new options are written to flash memory.

Is this likely to be a fault with the camera / microphone or perhaps the software and have any other users noticed this? - Would like to hear from you, thank you!

All the best for 2013 - Richard
This is not a new observation, and I have recently mentioned this issue to the developer again. Most want to decrease the volume level more, not increase it. I don't know if it's even possible to increase it... it may be at max for the hardware already with the high setting. If you look at the attached image, I recently made three videos with three #16 cameras, all running the same (recent) FW and recording the exact same sound and located the same distance from the source, but each with one of the three volume level settings. As you can see in the sound track waveforms, there is a very noticeable difference in the video sound track amplitude. BUT, this doesn't really tell what is going on.

The audible sound perception (measured in decibels) is a logarithmic function, not linear. My editor is not likely showing the amplitude on a logarithmic scale, and/or the attenuation between settiings is so small as to not be very distinguishable audibly. I can tell a small audible difference between low and the other two, but middle and high sound the same to my ear. If enough people feel more adjustment range is needed, perhaps we will see this in a future FW revision.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Dec 29, 2012 at 12:04 PM. Reason: spelling
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 12:04 PM
USA, NY, Brooklyn
Joined Jan 2002
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Ohh, and there must have been a connection problem with my pz0420. I wanted to compare again, and this time the pz0420 blows the #16v2 live output away. Or maybe it was the light levels, morning, vs afternoon. I dunno.... I think it might be the wdr effect. when I was pointing it at the window, the image quality of my apartment looked worse, but I could see outside, with the #16v2 I couldn't see outside and the inside of my apartment looked good.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 12:10 PM
Somewhere lost in Texas
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I took my glider out today for about 40 minutes and videoed the entire flight. I created 2 files, but with only a 1 second delay between the 2 files according to the date stamp. An enhancement?..
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 12:20 PM
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Kilrah's Avatar
United Arab Emirates, Dubai
Joined Sep 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerCut View Post
says the #16 has 90degrees with the D lens
and the #16v2 has 120degrees with the D lens?
Is the FOV specified the same way both times (diagonal/horizontal)? It's a common source of confusion, and most places don't specify which one it is.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 12:27 PM
Official Android Developer
Canada, QC, Montreal
Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgarber View Post
Success! Thank you Tom! It look like the FWMICDVR.BIN file was somehow corrupted on my SD card (0 bytes), and after a full charge (had to eliminate another obvious pitfall) it loaded up v0.49 using your instructions. After that I was able to successfully install v0.67 with the Nr16Setup GUI.

Whew! Thanks again,
Brian
This is typically what can happen when the SD card is not safely-removed by software (finish writing everything) before the camera is physically disconnected from the computer: the Firmware File is not entirely written to the SD card.

This is why I incorporated an SD card software safe-removal function in my Configuration Assistant right from the start, to ensure this kind of problem does not happen.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 12:42 PM
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Palmdale, CA
Joined Oct 2000
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilrah View Post
Is the FOV specified the same way both times (diagonal/horizontal)? It's a common source of confusion, and most places don't specify which one it is.
.
The D lens can give 114 degrees horizontally as noted. What that barrel distortion does to an image depends on what is being looked at.
If there's an orthogonal grid the curvature is easily remarked. Out in the boonies not so easy..
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 12:44 PM
Just thumbing through...
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United States, SC, Simpsonville
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Tom, don't know how loud your sound source was, but the high setting is what I like. The high peaks are not chopped.

Last night I watched "Good Morning Vietnam" and the dB meter was constantly flicking into red. That's typical.

Anyone wanting lower sound levels can easily adjust with editing, boosting sound is trickier and can lead to chopping/distortion.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 12:51 PM
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United States, AZ, Maricopa
Joined Jul 2011
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well i just bought another d lens and now I'm beginning to wonder. Should I of got a b??? I like the large fov but not the distortion!! Or is there a better lens out there that I can swap out??
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 12:53 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Camera vs. lens AOV

Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerCut View Post
So the #16v1 and #16v2 both with a D lens would have 120degree fov?

how come this site:
http://www.chucklohr.com/808/C16/

says the #16 has 90degrees with the D lens
and the #16v2 has 120degrees with the D lens?

I have a feeling that the sensor chip is slightly different, but the lenses are the same... So shouldn't I get 90degrees fov on the #16v2 (which has live output) if I were to swap sensor chips between the two?
No, there is no difference in sensors. This keeps coming up, including just recently. A thread search will find all the posts, but the bottom line is people use AOV to mean different things.

The lens has an angle of view that is fixed, and it's used by the lens manufacturers to tell a developer the (conical) angle the lens is physically capable of capturing. This is critical to a camera designer since this image cone must be at least big enough to cover the image sensor shape the camera is trying to record. And that shape (e.g. the 16:9 aspect ratio image the #16 camera captures for HD recording vs the 4:3 aspect ratio image the #16 camera outputs in the composite video output signal) are different. A lens that can only project an image that just barely covers the corners of the 4:3 image will not be able to fully cover the corners of the wider 16:9 image.

So the lens AOV is what it is... fixed and definitive. And it has to be big enough to at least cover the corner-to-corner distance of all the image sizes a camera intends to capture. But that is still not enough for a good quality image!

Inexpensive lenses can have a significant light drop off (vignetting) the further the portion of the image is from the center of the lens axis. Also, it's common for the focus to become less sharp on the sensor array (which is flat) the further the image gets from the lens center. This is because the lens focal plane (where the image is sharp) is NOT flat like the sensor array, but rather is slightly curved, like the surface of a sphere. So for these reasons, to get a very bright and sharp image with consistent color across the entire captured image frame (corner-to-corner!), the lens AOV in these inexpensive cameras must be considerably greater than captured image size to crop off those bad image portions. This is one key thing that defines a good camera from a poor one.

Then aside from the lens AOV comes the different meaning of AOV to different people. Many consider it to mean the side-to-side view angle of the image the camera actually captures. You'll see this in many posts here. And as mentioned above, even that can be different for the same camera and same lens for different aspect ratio images!

The problem is there is no consensus definition for what just the term "AOV" means for a camera. It's necessary to specify what is being referenced when speaking of AOV.

So, it can be correct to say, for example, the lens has a 120 deg. AOV as the ads say, and for an image to have a 90 deg. side-to-side AOV for the same camera with the same lens! AOV for a camera could also be stated in terns of top-to-bottom, or corner-to-corner AOVs, and each of those will be different for a 16:9 image vs a 4:3 image for the same camera with same lens!

Hence all the confusion!
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Dec 29, 2012 at 04:08 PM. Reason: added title and made a FAQ
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 12:54 PM
Happy FPV flyer
Kilrah's Avatar
United Arab Emirates, Dubai
Joined Sep 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crash74 View Post
well i just bought another d lens and now I'm beginning to wonder. Should I of got a b??? I like the large fov but not the distortion!! Or is there a better lens out there that I can swap out??
Nope you have to choose, narrow angle with no distorsion, or wide angle and distorsion. That's just physics.
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Old Dec 29, 2012, 12:56 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchitagain View Post
I took my glider out today for about 40 minutes and videoed the entire flight. I created 2 files, but with only a 1 second delay between the 2 files according to the date stamp. An enhancement?..
What are you asking? If you had the clip length set for 20 min. and are using MOV FW, you got exactly what you should have!
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