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Old Dec 20, 2011, 05:27 PM
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kasuno's Avatar
Espaņa, CT, Barcelona
Joined Dec 2011
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Yeah I thought of that but the bad thing is I won't be able to test how it looks with and without it, that's the con of this camera.
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 06:18 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,893 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcJosh View Post
The lens threads fit perfectly.
What you are seeing in the pic below is the HK lens screwed onto my #11 cam module:

...
(sorry, ...The original #11 lens pictured beside the camera should work for the #16 . . . right?
...
Since the #16 cam is the only guaranteed removable lens, it would be Great if the company could offer some choices for his customers!
(Or someone else that would be willing to provide the options.)
...
Good to know the HK lens has the same threads.

The #11 and # 16 have the same 7mm threads. The difference in the AOV of the #11 and #16 is not that great. I posted some sample video in the #11thread showing this. You can look there for to see the difference.
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 06:21 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kasuno View Post
Yeah the edges look blurry but the center looks great and I love the fisheye effect.

By the way, do you think the #16 could record great video in a skii resort or would the video get overexposed because of the snow?
Many of us hate the fisheye effect! Time will tell how video in bright snow environment affects the video. In very bright sun and water with 10Mp, I see some color shifting I don't like with the #16 with 10 Mbps data rate.
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 07:14 PM
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Keep up the great work guys!!

Joe
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 10:59 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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#16 Comparison with #11 Jumbo and hacked 120 deg. lens


Comparison #16 HD key Cam & #11 HD Key Cam with 120 deg. lens.

Click image to view video.
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 11:30 PM
OFF TOPIC POSTER
Des Moines IA
Joined Dec 2005
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I for one would like the 120 deg fov.
let us know if they might have somthing for spring.
otherwise its the hk cam for me as I like filming my friends planes in the air.
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 11:34 PM
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S.E.Michigan
Joined Jul 2010
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Tom, many thanks for your outstanding work.

Is it me? or does it seem like in that comparison that the apeture hunting is worse in the left frame than the right? The color saturation is certainly better, but the bright dark thing looks like the same old 11?

Pat
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Old Dec 20, 2011, 11:47 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
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Originally Posted by eckace1 View Post
I for one would like the 120 deg fov.
let us know if they might have somthing for spring.
otherwise its the hk cam for me as I like filming my friends planes in the air.
I have sent an emailto the developer asking if he knows where this lens can be purchased if he does not plan to sell it as an accessory. Hopefully he'll give us the info.

I also noted the hosting site clipped off part of the wide angle clip, possibly because I didn't include black borders to fill out the full 720 frame height. I'll try to fix that.
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Old Dec 21, 2011, 12:00 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
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Originally Posted by wheelspinner20 View Post
Tom, many thanks for your outstanding work.

Is it me? or does it seem like in that comparison that the apeture hunting is worse in the left frame than the right? The color saturation is certainly better, but the bright dark thing looks like the same old 11?

Pat
It's not you. This is something I never saw with the #16 anywhere near this degree, even in sun light where all my prior testing was done, but that was about 2000 mi. northwest of my current vacation location where these recent bright sun clips are being shot. The more intense sun here in South Florida appear to be more taxing on the CMOS's ability to keep the saturation and exposure in sync with each other. I would not compare that aspect with the right hand video though, because it has that extreme wide angle lens that is keeping the light a LOT more constant across the entire video frame, and especailly near the center-weighted metering system in the camera. If I had the normal lens on the #11 Jumbo, you would see the same thing as the #16, but most likely with much less natural, over-saturated colors shifting.

I made the developer aware of these newly seen issues, and he is going to see if they can be tamed better for the brighter light conditions. But there are limitations with the hardware, and it's never going to be perfect. It's still considerably better in the #16 than it ever was with any of my #11 cameras.
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Old Dec 21, 2011, 05:52 AM
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Joined Dec 2011
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Send your request posts to HobbyKing.com!

It would be nice to have a selection if we could find suppliers.
I'll have to test 1st hand the comparison of AOV between the new #16 lens and it's predecessor, but I definately like the wider views.

There is of course a downsides to this extreme wide angle along with the benefits . . .

If I had the choice, I think I would prefer something in the " 100 degree " range to get the best compromise.


Quote:
Originally Posted by eckace1 View Post
I for one would like the 120 deg fov.
let us know if they might have somthing for spring.
otherwise its the hk cam for me as I like filming my friends planes in the air.
Unless Tom can talk his supplier into selling the wide angle, I think our best shot of purchasing this lens is from HobbbyKing because they actually have a supplier of it. (now weather they will sell us just the lens remains to be seen)

If you guys want to put pressure on them, light up their forum with " Me Too" request:

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/f...=162334#162334
(4 "Me Too" requests so far)

I have taken it a step further and put up a thread in the "Suggestions / Ideas" section under product sales requests.

If you have "Me Too" ed above, go ahead and " Me Too" in the request thread below!

http://www.hobbyking.com/hobbyking/f...ID=14272&PN=60
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Old Dec 21, 2011, 09:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
The #11 has a bad "color hunting" problem when light conditions change, like when the camera quickly moves between light and darker areas. All low-end video cameras have this problem to a certain extent, but it is very noticeable in the #11. The #16 is much better.
Color saturation in the #11 produces colors that do not reflect the real colors. The #16 produces much more realistic colors, but some people may prefer the unnatural, rich colors of the #11. Someone called these "Kodachrome" colors.
I freely admit to preferring "Kodachrome" colors, but I'm trying to be objective about the samples I've seen so far, and I can't yet say that I agree that the #16 produces "much more realistic colors." They appear to me to be washed out, and playing with some frame grabs in a photo editor, I'm not convinced that simply increasing the saturation and contrast in post production would completely fix the problem: It appears to me that there is a also a general over-exposure problem that causes lost details in highlight areas (as well as causing more motion blur, as Tom noted). I'm glad that they tamed to "color-hunting" problem, but it seems to me the price for that is a generally less appealing image, overall. As for "more realistic," I'd guess that somewhere between the #11 and the #16 would be more realistic. Just my opinion, of course, and I'll probably get one anyway because of all the other nice features, but I am a bit disappointed with the imaging on this version -- so far, at least, based on limited samples.

EDIT: I wrote this before looking at Tom's latest samples in bright sunlight. They don't look as washed out as the previous samples, but then they have the "hunting" thing going on again. I don't really mean to sound hypercritical, by the way; size and price considered, both cameras are excellent and allow doing things that larger, heavier cameras just can't do.
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Last edited by RogerDH; Dec 21, 2011 at 09:57 AM.
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Old Dec 21, 2011, 09:53 AM
808 lover
kasuno's Avatar
Espaņa, CT, Barcelona
Joined Dec 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post

Comparison #16 HD key Cam & #11 HD Key Cam with 120 deg. lens.

Click image to view video.
The #16 looks really orangish when pointing at the sky. D:
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Old Dec 21, 2011, 10:24 AM
Drifting off the reservation..
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USA, LA, Broussard
Joined Jan 2011
2,296 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kasuno View Post
The #16 looks really orangish when pointing at the sky. D:
In this video I prefer the #11 (except for the fisheye). It's entirely possible that Tom's early prototype is one with a less than perfect setup/lens/sensor.

My two Jumbo #11's are not identical in color/saturation, and I'll bet the #16's will not be consistent either.

Maybe when a few folks get them we will see that they each have their own personality. I will have two to compare when they arrive, so I'll try to do a simultaneous test.
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Old Dec 21, 2011, 10:53 AM
Just thumbing through...
victapilot's Avatar
United States, SC, Simpsonville
Joined Feb 2009
4,455 Posts
Here's an example of the HK Wing. The horizon warping due to fish eye is not too bad, GoPro is much worse. The edge focus is not bad for the plane. The camera hunts for color and exposure much worse than 808HD, which is why I might like to move the lens to a #16

Shrike Ride (2 min 16 sec)
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Old Dec 21, 2011, 11:04 AM
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Cumbria in the U.K
Joined Jan 2008
1,928 Posts
Following the posts and dithering over buying a No16. I have just bought theNo11.
Keep up the good work with the info. and comparison videos.

Then I might stop dithering....
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