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Old Dec 27, 2012, 07:24 AM
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Originally Posted by crash74 View Post
k i got it working well sort of...... Still great camera I'm not complaining just offering improvements for the smarter guys to work on!!
Crash74...

MD:

I find using no matter what lens I own them all, Lens A, B D, I think some have all the lenses, Would you not want the whole pkg to? Good for the Seller/develepor/dealer/you/all.

When you set up and let do, the cam will start to record, and shut down, by the way it was designed to?

With what I have, and on lens D, I set mine up, and from behind the lens D. the camera activates. That is due to the AOV (angle of view). I think it is due to the camera in general.

With the Jazz Elite HDV-178 made by jazz, owners of Emerson, located in Parsippany NJ USA, this does not happen. bigger does not mean better,

Can put a HK w-67, 68, lenses, or fe 12,50 lens and see if any changes happen......

Once you can work out a solution on your own, and have it set up, to act as a Aerial camera, then you be fine. but more or less this feature is basically not a useful one at all. you never know when it will work right, if you have to figure it out each and every time.

This is a spycam. this is a aerial cam, this is just your basic cam with added features and functions. if they work or not.

keep it a secret. do not let anyone know it's called a Keychaim camera 808 #16.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 08:13 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nisbahmumtaz View Post
O_O
You mean it DOES have line-of-sight activation!?
Guess I have to look around the thread some more.
What I meant by camera-impact is when there's motion applied directly onto the camera itself, like touching it, moving it, and so on.
Line-of-sight is by waving something across the lens of the camera, without actually touching the camera. Can't wait for the new firmware update, where they SHOULD, in my opinion, have this explained. I mean, the fact that it's both camera-impact and line-of-sight, for anyone seeking a meticulous explanation. That, plus some information on which kind of activation does the sensitivity adjustment actually affect.

Yeah, what I had in mind was just to catch whenever someone creeps into picture. The velocity change of the target is probably too low for someone just walking in, though. That, and the distance. I'm talking like, more than one meter of distance between the camera and Mr. Recorded.
The exact method of how motion is determined has not been explained to me, but I'm sure it has nothing to do with any kind of special hardware for motion detection. And for a $40 dollar camera, I don't think a technical explanation is going to benefit most people who would buy this camera, many of which don't even read the simple operating instructions we have now as many posts here confirm. There is more information about motion detection in the firmware download archive here, but it's mostly how it's turned on and the toggles it has for tweaking the sensitivity and the duration of the triggered video. The GUI for tweaking the settings also has tool tips on what each setting does.

The motion detection is done by some image analysis, which is why physically moving the camera will always trigger it because the whole image in the frame is changing rather than just a small fraction of it, like a person walking into view. And fast motion is not necessarily better. A fast wave of the hand across the lens often will not trigger it, where a slower hand motion will.

Since the DSP chip is doing the motion detection, I've a hunch it might be using the variable data rate produced during the H.264 compression of the video stream to trigger the motion detection recording. I've confirmed by histogram displays of recorded videos that the data rate can spike from a low of around 5-6 Mbps to well into the 20 Mbps range when the level of detail and motion in scenes increases, but that would produce results that would appear unstable or unpredictable compared with what your eye can detect, I think. For now, the method will remain a mystery. And the function is still being refined... it only appeared in a recent FW update, so printed details on it haven't yet caught up with the fast rate this camera is constantly being improved.

At any rate, I'll be posting a FW update later this morning that might help with more consistent motion detection. Stay tuned...
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Dec 27, 2012 at 08:22 AM. Reason: clarifications
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 08:36 AM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
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Originally Posted by Sparky Paul View Post
Using 3 D's and a B, I get erratic results from 1 of the D's when all 4 cameras are looking in the same direction inside. Walking across the fields of view going away from the cameras, 2 of the D's will turn on. The B doesn't.
Walking towards the 4 and close... can't get too far in my house..., all 4 will turn on.
Adding another B, it always picks up the motion away from or towards it.
Thanks for testing this... shows how slight differences in camera images can impact the motion trigger. Lens focus might even be a factor.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 09:13 AM
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FF (fixedFocus)

MD (motion detect..)

lens maximum focal range of ~ will be 125"

Asking MD to work pass standard range and that will be determined by lenses???

With budget cams like these and many other marked, and unmarked brands were and still are a 30 foot radius.

Do not expect the MD to work outside 50% that scope. And FF to be crisp and clear. Just like that ciggerette commercial...............
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 10:34 AM
Dance the skies...
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v0.67 MOV FW released

I just posted the subject FW for download. The AVI version will be released soon once the MOV FW has had some use and feedback. This release fixes a couple of bugs that crept into the v0.58 FW, and changes a couple of tweaks in the Frame Rate and Volume Functions. Here's the complete rundown on all that is different from the prior 0.49 MOV FW:

FW v0.67 FW CHANGES (most were in v0.58 beta, but bugs now fixed.)

VIDEO OUT FUNCTION:
1. Now has toggles for mode (NTSC or PAL) and aspect ratio (16:9 and 4:3)
2. 16:9 will be letter-boxed (black bars top and bottom in the taller 4:3 aspect ratio frame as before)
3. 4:3 will be an image stretched vertically to fill the blank letter-boxed bars
4. Auto-shutoff will be automatically set to OFF when this function is turned ON (prevents losing FPV video if the user forgets to it off)
5. If HD recording is being done concurrently with video out, a 30 sec. countdown timer will appear briefly in the upper right corner of the video out display when the memory card space will only hold approximately that much additional recording. When the timer times out, it will disappear when the camera stops recording, and a small "card full" alert will appear for about 5 sec. in the center of the video out display. Video out will not be interrupted by any of this and will continue after the recording stops until the camera loses power or is manually turned off. The purpose of this is to give anyone shooting aerial video a "heads-up" to get any special video they may want to capture in the remaining time.
6. If battery power starts to get dangerously low, a low battery alert will be displayed in the video out stream. Approximately 90 secs. of video out will remain with the internal camera battery before it can cease to function. Larger external batteries with lesser voltage drop off will give proportionally longer time before video-out is lost, and weak batteries may decay faster with sooner video out cut-off. The purpose is to give FPV fliers a "heads up" to get the aircraft on the ground ASAP or risk losing
video while still flying.

MOTION DETECTION FUNCTION:
1. Now has new settings for Sensitivity and Timeout delay
2. Sensitivity can be toggled to either High or Low values for greater or lesser, respectively, sensitivity of the motion detection trigger.
3. Timeout delay before the video shuts down with no motion detected can be toggled to 5, 15, 30 or 60 secs.
4. Camera can be toggled to Photo mode after power-up (with another power button press) to get motion detection triggered photos.
5. Motion detection starts automatically after a 5 sec. delay after the camera is powered on. During the delay period, the camera can be:
__a. Toggled into normal video mode by pressing the shutter button. Camera reverts back to normal Motion Detect mode when normal video is stopped with Shutter Button.
__b. Toggled to Photo Mode with the power button.
__c. Set into position to prevent the motion from turning on the camera starting the first motion-triggered clip.

TIME-LAPSE PHOTO FUNCTION:
1. Photo delay settings now include 0.50 and 0.25 secs. These low settings, especially .25 sec., were not possible with the CMOS imager in it's stock form. The #16 developer, working with the CMOS manufacturer, made this work with a couple of minor tradeoffs. I.E., the frame size must by 1280x720 and no date stamp can be
displayed. The 0.25 sec. delay between images, when joined into a movie at 30 fps, will equate to a 7.5x time lapse speed up.
2. The Auto-shutdown setting can remain active with Time lapse turned on because it will only function when the camera is toggled out of photo mode back into standby mode.

VIDEO FRAME RATE FUNCTION:
1. This function now allows recording video with frame rates of 5, 10, 15, 20, or 30 fps. These can be used to produce additional time-lapse videos with less speed up.
2. The 5 fps mode is special, and will automatically play back at 30 fps. This means the NATIVE video in this mode will give a 6X speed-up with NO editing!
3. The other frame rates play back at the same frame rate as the capture rate (e.g., 10 fps capture will play back at 10 fps - no speed up, but jerky motion). But with post-processing with an editor, the special frame rates can be made to play back faster and produce slower, smoother "time lapse" motion than the Time-lapse Photo Mode:
__a. 5 fps video at 30 fps = 6x speed up
__b. 10 fps video at 30 fps = 3x speed up
__c. 15 fps video at 30 fps = 2x speed up
__d. 20 fps video at 30 fps = 1.5x speed up

NOTE: The 25 fps mode that was in the v0.58 beta FW has been eliminated for now due to incompatibility with new complier code from the hardware vendor. When a fix has been released it can be restored. In the interim, GUI revisions are expected to still show the option, but with it de-activated. It's still in the configuration file, but it currently produces normal 30 fps video, just like the 30fps option.

POWER ON DELAY FUNCTION:
This function gives the user the choice of the existing several sec. delayed power-up, or a fast mode power-up with no delay. The delayed power up is intended to prevent accidental power up from a momentary button press, such as can happen when carrying the camera in a pocket. The fast mode will power-up immediately, indicated by the yellow LED turning on, but there will still be about a 2 sec. pause after that while the camera completes it's boot sequence before the shutter button has any effect.

AUDIO VOLUME FUNCTION:
The OFF selection now has a new effect. When the volume is turned OFF, the sound track is completely eliminated from the video output stream in ALL camera modes. Before, a sound track was still attached with the microphone volume muted to make it inaudible. Elimination of the audio track during recording eliminates the need to remove it with post-processing when producing a time-lapse video speed-up using the Frame Rate method (the audio will essentially useless anyway because it's either out of sync, or drastically changed making it unintelligible). But it also will free up a nominal 7% more video recording space on the memory card if a video does not need the audio track.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Dec 27, 2012 at 10:41 AM.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 10:45 AM
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time lapse , no date stamp, that can be done in editors of the EXIM file embedded nothing new.
glad that Fw 7 holds some fixes, is this considered FW or beta FW. only time will tell???

Thank you Developer great job.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nisbahmumtaz View Post
O_O
You mean it DOES have line-of-sight activation!?
Guess I have to look around the thread some more.
What I meant by camera-impact is when there's motion applied directly onto the camera itself, like touching it, moving it, and so on.
Line-of-sight is by waving something across the lens of the camera, without actually touching the camera. Can't wait for the new firmware update, where they SHOULD, in my opinion, have this explained. I mean, the fact that it's both camera-impact and line-of-sight, for anyone seeking a meticulous explanation. That, plus some information on which kind of activation does the sensitivity adjustment actually affect.

Yeah, what I had in mind was just to catch whenever someone creeps into picture. The velocity change of the target is probably too low for someone just walking in, though. That, and the distance. I'm talking like, more than one meter of distance between the camera and Mr. Recorded.
.
All of the cameras I tested would activate in Motion Mode when moved. One of them took a lot of jostling to get the hint.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nisbahmumtaz View Post
Wow. Thanks a lot, man. That really helped a bunch.
Browsing through the entire thread didn't net me as much information as this post did. Mind putting this on the FAQ page, so you can inform many others who might be ignorant like me? Because this is hella useful. You even explained the mechanism that takes place for the 'motion detection', so I don't go off on my own tangent about stupid-ass made up theories, and quickly destroyed all that junk thought. I also understood the motion timeout thing now.
I don't know how you intend using the camera for motion detection. For my home CCTV cameras I use a programme called "Motion". The cameras are connected to a spare computer and the programme can be setup so that any movement on any of the cameras is instantly displayed/stored. The programme can be set so that several frames are always kept, these being constantly updated, up until the time movement is detected. If you choose to save - say - 15 frames then that gives the cameras and the logging system time to respond. This way the system is very sensitive... just a hand appearing outside my doors will be recorded before the rest of the person starts to emerge.

Depends what you want but the keychain camera could be enhanced by a suitable motion detection programme recording the video stream from the camera.... that's not of much use if you want a small portable system though !

Most of us intend using the camera for aerial video, which is the purpose of this thread, so motion detection is not that relevant.
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Last edited by sparklet; Dec 27, 2012 at 11:26 AM.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 12:10 PM
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New FW loaded,new GUI updated and ready to go.....to bad the wind is blowing snow everywhere!
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by ridgewalker View Post
New FW loaded,new GUI updated and ready to go.....to bad the wind is blowing snow everywhere!
Could make an interesting time lapse video

Just away to find my camera and get updating. Thanks once again to all involved, a big thumbs up.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 01:33 PM
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Please. please. link me to the remove the timestamp post (I cant find it )
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Aviefly View Post
Could make an interesting time lapse video
Used mine to make a timelapse of present opening Christmas morning :-)
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by qsgsg View Post
Just made a disovery. A 30 min Video always give an exact 1.48 GB file size no matter what. Hope it helps.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
How are you managing to get exactly a 30 min video clip? That might explain your discovery since the FW doesn't support 30 min. clips, and file size will change with the data rate.
Both clips are 30 min and 1 sec exact. I suppose the battery cut off itself. If you're curious, I'm on a Kingston 8GB class 4.
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 02:19 PM
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Just got some excellent footage with the latest fw just wish I had time stamp on so you can see the mini review. no snow, just flakes in here
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Old Dec 27, 2012, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by qsgsg View Post
Both clips are 30 min and 1 sec exact. I suppose the battery cut off itself. If you're curious, I'm on a Kingston 8GB class 4.
It would be too much of a coincidence to get these exact numbers by chance, without the camera controlling it. Not impossible, but chances are up there with a winning lottery ticket. Can you download the configuration file from the camera and post it here? It's sounding like you don't even have a #16 HD camera unless it's some REALLY REALLY old firmware on it. Have you used the Windows GUI available here to change settings? Does it report your FW version when you boot it?
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