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Old Dec 08, 2012, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
No, the data rate similarity is not a bug. This is fully explained in the FAQs (post #3).

And your old VGA resolution camera has only one third as many pixels of data to manipulate compared to a 1280x720 frame size, plus it uses a much simpler and less efficient video codec (MJPEG) compared to the #16HD (H.264), which achieves a much higher compression than MJPEG... about 3 times smaller for a given bit rate input. So stop and consider... the #16 is compressing three times MORE data into a file size that would be three times bigger if it used the MJPEG compression instead. This all takes time... time the #16 cannot spare since it has to process a new frame 30 times per second, just like the old VGA 808's. The result is the old VGA 808 can use a faster shutter speed because it doesn't have as much data to process and can take more time to compress the data.

Having said that, check your old 808 camera video frame by frame. You will see it drops frames anyway because it's video DSP chip is not as fast or efficient. The dropped frame rate, at best, will be maybe 5-10%... and as high as 30% or so, depending on which model VGA 808 you have.

I've read your post. In pitch black darkness and in a bright place with constant motion i get the same bit rate- 6.5mbps. It is supposed to vary but it does not.

Actually there isn't any dropped frame with the old 808 (640x480) cam that I have. I've counted 30 unique frames per second. You mentioned the compression method used for the old 808 is inferior as it is less compressed thus having clearer video from the fast shutter speed. Is it possible to have a Firmware which outputs MJPEG. Size isn't an issue with such quality. I'm sure there will be a big difference!
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 08:24 PM
Fidler & twidler
empeabee's Avatar
Cranfield U.K.
Joined Mar 2004
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Originally Posted by sparklet View Post
What ban on U.K shipments ?
Someone has ordered a N016 as a present for me and it has arrived O.K.
humm seems I'm living in the past, around Post 10264 time there was a hiatus in shipping to uk due to some Jobs Worth 'interpreting' the regs on lips. & I didnt check if ban was still one B4 opening mouth
Note to self - Engage Brain b4 opening mouth..
Mike
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Old Dec 08, 2012, 08:24 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qsgsg View Post
I've read your post. In pitch black darkness and in a bright place with constant motion i get the same bit rate- 6.5mbps. It is supposed to vary but it does not.

Actually there isn't any dropped frame with the old 808 (640x480) cam that I have. I've counted 30 unique frames per second. You mentioned the compression method used for the old 808 is inferior as it is less compressed thus having clearer video from the fast shutter speed. Is it possible to have a Firmware which outputs MJPEG. Size isn't an issue with such quality. I'm sure there will be a big difference!
If you read the post in the FAQs, you should have seen that the data rate is an average. I can guarantee you the data rate is variable and it does change , and quite dramatically in good light with lots of detail and motion (into the 20-30 Mbps range!). Load your video into AviDemux, then click on the "tools/bitrate histogram" menu and you'll see the full spectrum of data rates in your video.

The FW does not do the compression... the video DSP chip does. I don't know if it can output MJPEG video, but I also think most will not want files that are about 150 MB/min. in size. You must have a newer version of the dozen+ models of the VGA 808. I have #3's (early version) which were the best at minimizing dropped frames when I switched to the HD version, and it was about 7%. None could do 30 fps with no dropped frames a couple years ago.

It's been said in this thread many times that this camera is NOT good for low light scenes, especially indoors in dim light.
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Old Dec 09, 2012, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Rubis View Post
Hello isoprop

Is it possible to modify the software to do with the micro sd inside the webcam function???
and so it is possible to make a triggering of the voice as a vox !!!!
merci
The software (GUI) requires the camera to be recognized as an external drive. In Webcam mode, the OS loads a different driver, so it is not possible to access the card at the same time the webcam is active.

Webcam mode requires the SD card to be removed before connecting to the PC. This is how the firmware was designed. I don't know if the processor is capable of recording AND outputting USB webcam data, but there would be a conflict on the USB bus if data were to be accessed both on the card and from the webcam. Even setting parameters using USB would create a conflict on the USB bus if webcam were enabled at the same time.

Voice activation? I don't know. Most probably possible if there was more demand for it. I hope you don't mean voice activation to start webcam mode
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Old Dec 09, 2012, 11:57 AM
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Joined Dec 2012
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Hello All.

I have #16 V1 camera.There was FW 0.36 on it. I have upeted it to 0.49. Then I tried to install new bootloader but something goes wrong ang camera does not turns on anymore. No leds turn on when I press the buttons. Except the green one when charging.
I tried many things , include batery disconect and reset. Have read FAQ, meny posts include this
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1293
nothing helps.

Is there any way to repair broken bootloader or install back the old one or other steps that i can try?

thanks
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Old Dec 09, 2012, 12:24 PM
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United Kingdom, England, Kent
Joined Dec 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freko View Post
Hello All.

I have #16 V1 camera.There was FW 0.36 on it. I have upeted it to 0.49. Then I tried to install new bootloader but something goes wrong ang camera does not turns on anymore. No leds turn on when I press the buttons. Except the green one when charging.
I tried many things , include batery disconect and reset. Have read FAQ, meny posts include this
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1293
nothing helps.

Is there any way to repair broken bootloader or install back the old one or other steps that i can try?

thanks
The new firmware requires that you hold down the "power" button for at least two seconds, unlike the earlier firmware which was an instant switch on.

Just press and hold the power button until the LED turns yellow and you are good to go.
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Old Dec 09, 2012, 12:24 PM
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Joined Nov 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by freko View Post
Hello All.

I have #16 V1 camera.There was FW 0.36 on it. I have upeted it to 0.49. Then I tried to install new bootloader but something goes wrong ang camera does not turns on anymore. No leds turn on when I press the buttons. Except the green one when charging.
I tried many things , include batery disconect and reset. Have read FAQ, meny posts include this
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showp...postcount=1293
nothing helps.

Is there any way to repair broken bootloader or install back the old one or other steps that i can try?

thanks
Use a card reader and use SDFormat to format your card.
Copy the bootloader to the empty card.
Put the card in the camera and turn it on.
Do any LEDs flash or turn on?
If not, how good are you at soldering SMD?

[EDIT] Like VideoKing has just posted (he was quicker than I was ), you may need to press the power button 3 seconds before the camera turns on. But all the same, do ANY LED's turn on or flash? [/EDIT]
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Old Dec 09, 2012, 12:24 PM
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Palmdale, CA
Joined Oct 2000
13,202 Posts
Formatting the card might work.
Then reload the FW.
I had a new one go wonky with new FW, reformatting the card fixed it.
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Last edited by Sparky Paul; Dec 09, 2012 at 12:32 PM.
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Old Dec 09, 2012, 12:33 PM
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ll try
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Old Dec 09, 2012, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
If you read the post in the FAQs, you should have seen that the data rate is an average. I can guarantee you the data rate is variable and it does change , and quite dramatically in good light with lots of detail and motion (into the 20-30 Mbps range!). Load your video into AviDemux, then click on the "tools/bitrate histogram" menu and you'll see the full spectrum of data rates in your video.

The FW does not do the compression... the video DSP chip does. I don't know if it can output MJPEG video, but I also think most will not want files that are about 150 MB/min. in size. You must have a newer version of the dozen+ models of the VGA 808. I have #3's (early version) which were the best at minimizing dropped frames when I switched to the HD version, and it was about 7%. None could do 30 fps with no dropped frames a couple years ago.

It's been said in this thread many times that this camera is NOT good for low light scenes, especially indoors in dim light.
I dont use the cam for low light situation but for outdoor day use. I'm just showing you a scenario(with my testing) how the average bitrate doesn't vary comparing a pitch dark video and a video with perfect lighting and constant motion. This is odd considering that my #3 808 cam does give me varying average video bitrate from 2000kbps for 1 file and 8000kbps average video bitrate for another file.


With regards to the MJPEG video , i hope that it is possible as this would free up the processing power and enable better video capture quality. On my #3 808 cam, I capture them RAW and after encoding into another format, I still managed to retain much of the quality compared to this #16 cam despite a smaller size.
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Old Dec 09, 2012, 12:44 PM
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Joined Dec 2012
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Encryption of files and external battery charging

Hi, this is a great forum with great support for an amazing product. Just two questions:
  1. I was wondering is it possible to encrypt the videos that the camera saves onto the memory card using TrueCrypt or similar software? I tried it but couldn't get it working.

  2. Also, I use an external USB charger to make longer recording times but I've noticed that the battery seems to get itself fully charged while still recording and stops recharging from the USB battery. The camera continues recording until the internal battery dies with the USB charger still connected. Is there a way to make the camera continue recharging from the USB battery?
Thanks.
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Old Dec 09, 2012, 01:05 PM
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Joined Dec 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Use a card reader and use SDFormat to format your card.
Copy the bootloader to the empty card.
Put the card in the camera and turn it on.
Do any LEDs flash or turn on?
If not, how good are you at soldering SMD?
I have done all as you wrote. No LEDs lights up even butons pressed short or long time.
I have a soldering tool. What i have to do?
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Old Dec 09, 2012, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by freko View Post
I have done all as you wrote. No LEDs lights up even butons pressed short or long time.
I have a soldering tool. What i have to do?
I'll PM you tomorrow, Monday, on how to get your camera back working, but, be warned, you must be able to solder/unsolder very tiny resistors. If you are unsure, it may be better to consider sending your camera back for replacement. Sleep over the possibility, but I will send you a PM tomorrow.
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Old Dec 09, 2012, 05:02 PM
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin IRL View Post
Hi, this is a great forum with great support for an amazing product. Just two questions:
  1. I was wondering is it possible to encrypt the videos that the camera saves onto the memory card using TrueCrypt or similar software? I tried it but couldn't get it working.
    It's probably possible, but help with a specific encryption program is off topic here. If someone has used the program you mentioned, they can (and should ) reply back with PM.
  2. Also, I use an external USB charger to make longer recording times but I've noticed that the battery seems to get itself fully charged while still recording and stops recharging from the USB battery. The camera continues recording until the internal battery dies with the USB charger still connected. Is there a way to make the camera continue recharging from the USB battery?
    The camera should be doing exactly as you want. An external battery will keep the internal battery charged while it is powering the camera. And ONLY when the external battery loses power should the camera start depleting it's internal battery and finally stop recording. Did you check your external battery in your example. It should be discharged just like the camera internal battery when the camera stops recording.
Thanks.
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Old Dec 09, 2012, 05:05 PM
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How To Make Time Lapse Video - Time-Lapse Photo Method

The #16 now has two functions that can be used to make time lapse videos, namely Time-Lapse Photos and Video Frame Rate. But how is it done? Here's the easiest way I've found when using the Time-lapse Photo method with free editing tools (Windows PCs).

Time-Lapse Photo Method:
  1. Toggle on this mode with your choice of time delay between captured images using the GUI. See the attached pin #1 and note tool tip giving info about the function and it's limitations, especially with the two short delay time (0.25 and 0.50 sec.).

  2. Turn on the camera and then press the power button briefly to toggle to the Photo Mode (confirmed by RED LED turning on).

  3. When ready to begin, press the shutter button very briefly to begin the image captures (confirmed with a blink of the YELLOW LED each time the camera captures an image).

    NOTE: Time lapse recording will continue until your power source is depleted or turned off, or until the memory card fills up. Each image will be approximately 300KB in size (+/- 25KB). You can use that to estimate how long your camera will record until the card fills up. E.g., starting with an empty 4GB card and Time-lapse set for 1 sec. delay:

    4 GB / 300KB = 13,333 images on a full card.
    13,333 images / 60 images/min. = 222 min. (3.7 hrs). of recording until the card fills.

  4. Now convert all your (thousands?) of images into an AVI movie simply and easily using the nifty "Photolapse" utility. Download it from the author's site here[/URL]. There are various settings that are identified on the down load screen, but here's what I do to create a video quickly and easily:
    • Connect camera as USB drive and navigate to the image folder
      (see attached Pic #2)
    • Click check box if you want to check images for errors (much slower, but prevents a crash if corrupt image is found). Then click on the "Load files from current folder" button to import the images.
    • Before joining the images into a movie, you can lower the frame rate of your video from the maximum of 30 fps, but I leave the default max. of 30 fps. Also, you can create a video that will play in reverse by clicking that option box!
    • When ready, click the "Create Movie" button. You will first be prompted to give it a name and folder location. Then you will be prompted for a video codec for the compression. The codecs that you have available on your PC will be listed. Pick one.
      Note: For Windows users I highly recommend x.264vfw[/URL] for the best combination of high quality and small file size. I suggest you DO NOT choose the "Full frame (uncompressed)" option... the file size will be HUGE and may tax your computer memory.

  5. That's it... you're done. It can take a couple of minutes for the program to finish joining thousands of images into a video. Of course, you can use other editing tools to do this as well, but I find this free dedicated program to be the simplest and easiest to use with Windows PCs.
NOTE: The delay between images and the frame rate you use when you create a movie will dictate the amount of time-lapse speed-up you will get. The following shows the speed up when a 30 fps movie frame rate is used:
Time delay ..... Speed-up
0.25s .............. 7.5x
0.5s ................ 15x
1s ................... 30x
2s .................. 60x
5s .................. 150x
10s ................. 300x
30s ................. 900x
60s ................ 1800x

Keeping the video frame rate at 30 fps keeps things simpler. You can then use this table to pick the delay that gives the amount of speed-up you want, e.g.
  • You want to show the construction of a scratch-built plane with a 1 minute video that covers the 29 hours of actual building time for completion. The speed up required would be:
    29 hours x 60 min./hr. = 1740x to play back in one minute
    Use the 60s delay setting to give playback time of 58 min. (close enough!)

  • Or, you want to show a 20 min. FPV flight video in just one minute. That is a 20x speed up, so you would have to pick the 1s delay for a 40 sec. playback time, or the .5s delay for an 80 sec. playback time.
Shorter duration events need less than about 30 minutes recording time don't need so much speed-up, so this method may not be the best for those. But that's where the Video Frame Rate Method can be useful.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Dec 10, 2012 at 06:30 AM. Reason: corrected title
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