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Old Nov 29, 2012, 07:14 PM
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victapilot's Avatar
United States, SC, Simpsonville
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Originally Posted by chanyote66 View Post
Has there been any talk about possibly increasing its Dynamic range?
Not very likely, although Elijah may still have some miracles up his sleeve like his namesake

The problem is that we are pulling a 1mp video from a 1mp sensor, and also the light gathering ability of the lens is limited. The GoPro V1 is much better, but has a 5mp sensor. Even my Kodak ZxD (3 mp sensor) is better. The V3 GoPro Black is vastly superior, has a 10mp sensor. You can see comparisons on Youtube.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 05:28 AM
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Deutschland, HE
Joined May 2010
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in the motion detection mode with high sensitivity it happens by pressing the power button about 5 sec, that the LED goes from yellow to continously red and then the motion detect takes pictures(no vid), very sensitiv and quick by external movement.

I read this feature nowhere...?

welcome
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by welcome99 View Post
in the motion detection mode with high sensitivity it happens by pressing the power button about 5 sec, that the LED goes from yellow to continously red and then the motion detect takes pictures(no vid), very sensitiv and quick by external movement.

I read this feature nowhere...?

welcome
Very interesting finding

The LED doesn't automatically turn red, you have to release the power button after about 4-5 seconds while the LED is still yellow. Like you say, the detection is very sensitive and almost immediate. I guess this is one of the developer's hidden features, but may be useful to someone. I don't remember being notified about this functionality.

It still amazes me what this tiny camera can do with only two buttons.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 09:03 AM
hin
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
What kind of motion are you using to trigger the motion detection? e.g. a car driving by, or bird flying by, or a bullet whizzing past? I'm not trying to be cute... just trying to understand what you are expecting. It takes a certain proportion of the scene to change in a finite time period. I don't know exactly what those variables are with the two settings, but someone will always find them too much or not enough. One user already reported the old setting was too sensitive and he preferred the new low settings. I suspect, but have not tried to quantify, that the amount of lighting will also have a large impact on the ability to detect motion. I can walk past the camera in a "normally" lit room at night and easily trigger a video.
Moving the cam significantly in a well illuminated office took about 10sec to start the recording. Just walking past the cam doesn't work, you have to move constantly up and down to get a trigger.
My expectation for a good observation cam is definitely a single pass of a person also in some distance. But as I already mentioned, I don't expect this from a key cam. It is only a bit astonishing, that the cams have such a different behaviour. Motion detection is normally only a SW feature and the sensitivity is only parameter depend, what should not make any difference from cam to cam with the same FW ?
But don't care, it is still a fantastic cam, taking size, weight and price into account....
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:13 AM
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,981 Posts
v0.58 Motion Detect Bug

Quote:
Originally Posted by Isoprop View Post
Very interesting finding

The LED doesn't automatically turn red, you have to release the power button after about 4-5 seconds while the LED is still yellow. Like you say, the detection is very sensitive and almost immediate. I guess this is one of the developer's hidden features, but may be useful to someone. I don't remember being notified about this functionality.

It still amazes me what this tiny camera can do with only two buttons.
Yes, motion detection interacts with both video AND photo modes. I found this while testing but didn't think of saying it would (or would not) do this. I guess with the Motion Timeout settings, every one thinks this only affects video, and that would normally be the way it would normally be used, because the motion that triggers the photo is very likely to be out of the frame in whole or in part when the image is captured (there is a slight delay between motion detect and the start of image capture). But, you do have to press the power button briefly when the camera is NOT recording to toggle it into and out of photo mode, just like normal.

HOWEVER, while testing this further just now, I found there is a serious instability that is now in the Motion Detection Mode in FW v0.58. The camera does not go directly to motion detect mode, but rather normal standby mode (verified this on both a v1 and v2 camera). However when then going to photo mode, the motion detect will trigger a photo. When going back to video mode, Motion Detect will then start triggering a video, but with unstable results. Videos will ignore the Motion Time Out settings and sometimes record continuously until manually stopped, and then immediately start recording again. OR will record for 2 sec. then stop until motion triggers it again. OR, will simply triggered the camera to turn off by motion detection.

Obviously some bugs needing squashing.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Nov 30, 2012 at 10:31 AM.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:19 AM
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United States, MA, Walpole
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Originally Posted by hin View Post
Moving the cam significantly in a well illuminated office took about 10sec to start the recording. Just walking past the cam doesn't work, you have to move constantly up and down to get a trigger.
My expectation for a good observation cam is definitely a single pass of a person also in some distance. But as I already mentioned, I don't expect this from a key cam. It is only a bit astonishing, that the cams have such a different behaviour. Motion detection is normally only a SW feature and the sensitivity is only parameter depend, what should not make any difference from cam to cam with the same FW ?
But don't care, it is still a fantastic cam, taking size, weight and price into account....
If the cameras all had the same lens, I'd agree. But with three different lenses with different AOV, this will present different degrees of motion across the CMOS array and should impact how the camera responds. With the A lens, I can start a motion detect with a slow pass of my hand a couple feet from the camera or walking 20 feet away. Very fast motion does not get detected usually though. And a very slight motion while holding the camera (even indoors with at least some day light from windows) will toggle it most of the time (where the entire frame image is moving, not just an object in a static scene). This is what spawned the slight motion detect delay that is suppose to happen after turning on the camera so a user has a few seconds to turn on the camera and set it down before starting an unwanted video.

If you are using the wide angle D lens, there is less relative motion on the CMOS array compared to the much narrower AOV A lens due to the much wider AOV and much smaller size of objects in the scene.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Nov 30, 2012 at 10:35 AM.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:37 AM
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United States, OH, Dayton
Joined Feb 2012
34 Posts
Lens D focus question

I opened the case of my #16 lens D to try to adjust the focus. However, I noticed that it looked as though there is cyanoacrylate glue (super glue) holding the lens in place, and it was impossible to turn. Is this common among the lens D cameras?

My lens seems focused in on objects in the foreground, but out of focus in the background. Makes for poor videos in the air.

-Brian
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 10:59 AM
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Leeds, UK
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Mine is the same, D lens glued. Depth of field seems pretty large so everything appears in focus, apart from really close objects.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:07 AM
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Originally Posted by bgarber View Post
I opened the case of my #16 lens D to try to adjust the focus. However, I noticed that it looked as though there is cyanoacrylate glue (super glue) holding the lens in place, and it was impossible to turn. Is this common among the lens D cameras?

My lens seems focused in on objects in the foreground, but out of focus in the background. Makes for poor videos in the air.

-Brian
Please reads the FAQs... there is much information on refocusing. Also, the wide angle lens has a very deep depth of field. Your lens may not be out of focus. It is normal for that lens to show a reasonably sharp image a foot away, but not be able to resolve definition nearly as well in the far field due to the inexpensive optics. Even at that, it does a remarkable job to keep focus at the edges reasonably sharp relative to the center and vignetting very low at those extremes as well.

If you compare your camera's video with sample posted here, you might get some indication of how it is performing, even though the posted sample links are usually hosts on Vimeo or YouTube and have been re-encoded with some image degradation.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Nov 30, 2012 at 11:09 AM. Reason: clarification rewording
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:17 AM
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United States, OH, Dayton
Joined Feb 2012
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Thanks Tom. I did take a look at the FAQs, but didn't see anything specific to the lens D option... that's why I asked.

You're right, it is incredibly sharp with close objects (when my plane is on the ground, blades of grass are very clear!) but up in the air the distant houses tend to blur. I'm thinking that this is the trade-off between a wide angle lens vs. sharpness.

Since I'm not using this camera for FPV, but for HD aerial videos, I'm wondering if it would be better to go with a lens A or B option.

Thanks again all for your inputs.
Brian
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:29 AM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bgarber View Post
Thanks Tom. I did take a look at the FAQs, but didn't see anything specific to the lens D option... that's why I asked.

You're right, it is incredibly sharp with close objects (when my plane is on the ground, blades of grass are very clear!) but up in the air the distant houses tend to blur. I'm thinking that this is the trade-off between a wide angle lens vs. sharpness.

Since I'm not using this camera for FPV, but for HD aerial videos, I'm wondering if it would be better to go with a lens A or B option.

Thanks again all for your inputs.
Brian
All the lenses normally are secured the same way, according to what the manufacturer considers "best" focus. I haven't tried to tweak my D lens yet, and probably won't. It's just that the image size is so drastically reduced in size due to the wide angle AOV, the details are harder to resolve clearly. I don't like the fisheye distortion of the D lens, either, especially for AV, so unless you need to capture that much wide AOV, you might prefer the A, or slightly wider B lens (which has more vignetting, so I like the A lens better). A new C lens is being evaluated, and we might have another option somewhere in the middle. It's all personal preference.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ko2610 View Post
My v2 fw 0.58 has one bug: with auto record on, loop recording on (5min clips) and auto-shutoff enabled it records one 5min clip and one clip depending on the auto-shutoff time setting. Then it turns off.
As a workaround I set auto-shutoff off and it records as supposed, just needs to be turned off manually.

It sounds like you are manually editing the syscfg.txt file and not using the GUI to do it? The GUI utilities will not allow conflicting settings to be loaded into the camera, avoiding the problem you found.

Everyone (well, at least Windows and LINUX users) should be using the GUIs now. With direct USB communication to configuration the camera, it is by far easier to re-configure the camera while averting settings which may conflict with each other.
Hi I am new here.

I just registered to say that I can confirm ko2610's problem (see attached screenshots).

First two clips were made with 70min clip length setting and 30sec auto shutoff setting. The third and fourth clip with 5min/2min setting.

Not sure if I really need auto shutoff. I will turn it off for now. My cam is a 808 #16 v1 btw.

Cheers lgp666
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 11:41 AM
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United Kingdom, Bracknell
Joined Nov 2000
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
A new C lens is being evaluated, and we might have another option somewhere in the middle. It's all personal preference.
New lens sounds good ... fingers crossed. I have stuck with the original A lens, having bought a B module to try when that came out. I also couldn't live with the D's distortion - as you say, personal preference.
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 01:04 PM
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Germany, lake of Konstanz
Joined Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Gerd, the problem is how your glasses function with NTSC (or PAL) video in either 16:9 or 4:3 aspect ratios. The camera is not doing this. On my NTSC HD TV, I get a 4:3 aspect ratio frame whether the setting is 16:9 or 4:3! A 4:3 aspect ratio is standard for composite video which is what the camera is pumping out. This is standard for composite video. When the GUI setting is toggled to 16:9, I get the native size 16:9 aspect ratio video displayed in a taller 4:3 aspect ratio frame. There are black bars top and bottom filling the higher frame areas. If I toggle to 4:3 aspect ratio output, I still get a 4:3 frame, but now the image is stretched vertically so it fills the entire 4:3 frame area with a distorted image. Contrary to prior posts, there is NOT any more video information displayed when 4:3 aspect ratio is selected... it's just stretched out of proportion to fill the frame. Some like this, which is fine, but there is no more video information there.

If you are seeing a non-distorted video with black bars top/bottom and both sides as well, it sounds like your goggles are displaying a letter-boxed 16:9 image in a 4:3 frame on a 16:9 aspect ratio display screen, which is what can happen on my HDTV if the transmission is in 4:3 aspect ratio and my TV display is set to display a 16:9 image.

Pretty confusing... one day this obsolete 4:3 TV will be a thing of the past.
Tom,
I have this problem only with the Keycam, and with no other camera available here. So it must be Keycam video timing related. I also will see that left/right bars when connecting to any other monitor, regardless of 16:9 or 4:3 ratio (including my 16:9 TV screen) and regardless if I change the cam video out settings to 4:3 or 16:9.
Do you have access to FatShark glasses? Maybe you can check by yourself.

Regards, Gerd
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Old Nov 30, 2012, 01:35 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Originally Posted by GerdS View Post
Tom,
I have this problem only with the Keycam, and with no other camera available here. So it must be Keycam video timing related. I also will see that left/right bars when connecting to any other monitor, regardless of 16:9 or 4:3 ratio (including my 16:9 TV screen) and regardless if I change the cam video out settings to 4:3 or 16:9.
Do you have access to FatShark glasses? Maybe you can check by yourself.

Regards, Gerd
Maybe we're talking about two different things. The camera's video output frame in video out mode is locked at 4:3... no way to change that. So on a 16:9 display there will always be black bars left and right, unless the frame is artificially stretched by your TV to fill the full width, and most HD TVs can do that. You FPV goggles may not have that capability. Or the TV can fill that width by zooming in on the native frame, but then you lose part of the image in the vertical direction unless it is vertically compressed. Most TV's just crop the height of the image, but your goggles may not do that either.

The camera can ONLY put it's native 16:9 image into the locked 4:3 video out frame (producing black bars top and bottom), or stretch that 16:9 image vertically to make it 4:3 and fill the entire 4:3 frame in the video out stream. Whatever happens after that to resize it must be done by the display device.
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