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Old Sep 22, 2012, 08:11 PM
Dave the Rave
dmccormick001's Avatar
Joined Jun 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oetboy View Post
A comment and then a question:
1. The 808 cannot be placed safely "anywhere" on a PZ T-28, at least with the camera far out on the upper wing, controlling the aircraft proved extremely difficult and then impossible!!
This brings up something that "noobs", especially those flying small electric-powered park flyers, might need to be cautioned about. ANYTIME you attach something to a plane, regardless of how big the plane or the motor/engine, it's a good practice to place it as close to the plane's CG (Center of Gravity) as possible for at least the first couple of flights. That will minimize any effect the new object will have on the plane's performance and on it's trim, and allow you to shift it out laterally (wings) or move it forward or back until you get it where you want it. By placing your camera on the wingtip, you made the most drastic change to the plane's lateral balance you could make with that object, and to maintain it's balance, you should have added an equal amount of weight to the opposite wingtip. Next time start at the wing's root, and shift it out over 3 or 4 flights to make sure you don't make your model uncontrollable. Add weight to the other wingtip as you go if needed. Same goes for mountings on the tail, start with it mounted as close to the CG as you can, and move it back gradually. If you place it on the tail and you make your plane tail-heavy, it may become the hardest plane you ever tried to fly! I know, I've had it happen. Maximum pucker factor!
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Old Sep 22, 2012, 09:21 PM
FPV in Hawaii
iskess's Avatar
United States, HI, Kailua
Joined Feb 2012
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I think the weight wasn't the biggest problem. By placing the object on the top of the wing, he disrupted the airflow, much like a spoiler. Since it was on the outboard of the wing, it induced a strong roll which he naturally tried to correct with down aileron on that wing. Down aileron increases the AOA on that wing tip, causing a tip stall and an uncontrollable roll.
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Old Sep 22, 2012, 09:57 PM
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United States, TX, Colleyville
Joined Jul 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmccormick001 View Post
This brings up something that "noobs", especially those flying small electric-powered park flyers, might need to be cautioned about. ANYTIME you attach something to a plane, regardless of how big the plane or the motor/engine, it's a good practice to place it as close to the plane's CG (Center of Gravity) as possible for at least the first couple of flights. That will minimize any effect the new object will have on the plane's performance and on it's trim, and allow you to shift it out laterally (wings) or move it forward or back until you get it where you want it. By placing your camera on the wingtip, you made the most drastic change to the plane's lateral balance you could make with that object, and to maintain it's balance, you should have added an equal amount of weight to the opposite wingtip. Next time start at the wing's root, and shift it out over 3 or 4 flights to make sure you don't make your model uncontrollable. Add weight to the other wingtip as you go if needed. Same goes for mountings on the tail, start with it mounted as close to the CG as you can, and move it back gradually. If you place it on the tail and you make your plane tail-heavy, it may become the hardest plane you ever tried to fly! I know, I've had it happen. Maximum pucker factor!
Appreciate they insight... unfortunately, if you look back a few pages on this thread, before I attached my camera and flew my plane, I asked the forum about the "dos and don't" of 808 camera placement on a PZ T-28. I got the impression that I could put it just about anywhere on wing (including top or bottom) with minimal tinkering of trim settings. I took that advice and put the camera where I wanted to seeing as it shouldn't change the flight characteristics.

So, yes, admittedly, I'm a noob! But I'm a noob who feels I did my due diligence asking pertinent questions... I just got burned with some questionable advice.
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Old Sep 22, 2012, 10:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iskess View Post
I think the weight wasn't the biggest problem. By placing the object on the top of the wing, he disrupted the airflow, much like a spoiler. Since it was on the outboard of the wing, it induced a strong roll which he naturally tried to correct with down aileron on that wing. Down aileron increases the AOA on that wing tip, causing a tip stall and an uncontrollable roll.
This sounds like EXACTLY what I experienced! I did ok "flying straight" with corrective left aileron input, but totally lost control in a spiral dive when I tried to make a gentle turn right (same side camera was mounted on). I think at the moment my instinct was to try to let the plane "turn itself" right because that was the natural way the plane wanted to go and it would be easier to let it turn right rather than try turn left (I already had maybe 70% deflection of left aileron input just to fly straight... not sure I could have turned left as I didn't have much more left aileron deflection available). In retrospect, the right wing already had an "effective spoiler" (the camera) and I then made things worse by letting it turn right and taking away even more right wing lift. If I could do it all over again, I wonder if I could have kept the left aileron defection at 70% and steered the plane 180 degrees with just the rudder. Would that have worked?
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Old Sep 22, 2012, 11:10 PM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oetboy View Post
Appreciate they insight... unfortunately, if you look back a few pages on this thread, before I attached my camera and flew my plane, I asked the forum about the "dos and don't" of 808 camera placement on a PZ T-28. I got the impression that I could put it just about anywhere on wing (including top or bottom) with minimal tinkering of trim settings. I took that advice and put the camera where I wanted to seeing as it shouldn't change the flight characteristics.

So, yes, admittedly, I'm a noob! But I'm a noob who feels I did my due diligence asking pertinent questions... I just got burned with some questionable advice.
You obviously did not see or read or heed my post in response to your original post! You violated some key points and cautions about camera placement, and unfortunately got bitten. You'll get varying opinions on just about any question posted in these forums. Some are guesses, some are based on experience or direct knowledge, and some work better than others. Figuring which is which is not an easy thing to do, but erring on the safe side is best if you're not sure.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Sep 23, 2012 at 08:44 AM. Reason: better worded
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Old Sep 22, 2012, 11:44 PM
Grrr :-)
nerys's Avatar
Levittown PA 19057
Joined Aug 2006
438 Posts
hmmm normally I would say stick the camera anywhere you want it won't do anything BUT I have to remember I am doing this with airplanes so much heavier and larger than an 808 that the 808 really is irrelevant. wing root wing tip top bottom LE TE back front nose tail even the rudder the radian just does not care and has ZERO effect on trim.

SO rule of thumb if the 808 alters your trims "AT ALL" then be wary its probably heavy enough./ draggy enough to cause problems so you need to plan for them.
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 03:54 AM
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Denmark, kbh
Joined Jan 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mark the shark View Post
just a quick flight from today clear blue skies in the uk today need to sort a better mount out for jello enjoy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJtA2...1&feature=plcp
Mark,
Nice flying, nice scenery, and nice video! I don't often watch 6 minutes youtube FPV videos from start to end
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 04:29 AM
FPV in Hawaii
iskess's Avatar
United States, HI, Kailua
Joined Feb 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oetboy View Post
This sounds like EXACTLY what I experienced! I did ok "flying straight" with corrective left aileron input, but totally lost control in a spiral dive when I tried to make a gentle turn right (same side camera was mounted on). I think at the moment my instinct was to try to let the plane "turn itself" right because that was the natural way the plane wanted to go and it would be easier to let it turn right rather than try turn left (I already had maybe 70% deflection of left aileron input just to fly straight... not sure I could have turned left as I didn't have much more left aileron deflection available). In retrospect, the right wing already had an "effective spoiler" (the camera) and I then made things worse by letting it turn right and taking away even more right wing lift. If I could do it all over again, I wonder if I could have kept the left aileron defection at 70% and steered the plane 180 degrees with just the rudder. Would that have worked?
Actually you did the best thing by letting it turn right, the wing tip probably stalled when you tried to stop the right turn and level the wings again. This is the point when you would have needed the most left aileron.
Steering with the rudder possibly could have saved the plane. Aileron to stop the roll, and rudder to turn the plane. Easier said than done in the heat of battle, but useful to contemplate nontheless.
Sorry to turn this thread into an aerodynamic discussion.
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 07:45 AM
Dave the Rave
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Joined Jun 2007
876 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by iskess View Post
I think the weight wasn't the biggest problem. By placing the object on the top of the wing, he disrupted the airflow, much like a spoiler. Since it was on the outboard of the wing, it induced a strong roll which he naturally tried to correct with down aileron on that wing. Down aileron increases the AOA on that wing tip, causing a tip stall and an uncontrollable roll.
That's possible, but in either case the advice is still valid. If he had started with the camera near the root, it would have had much less effect then it did, and he might have had some idea of how the plane was going to react as he moved it out.

I'm sorry, too, for hi-jacking the thread and discussing aerodynamics, except that mounting and using the camera is part of it I think. A big part, if you wind up trashing your plane.
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 08:05 AM
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Denmark, kbh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dmccormick001 View Post
...I'm sorry, too, for hi-jacking the thread and discussing aerodynamics, except that mounting and using the camera is part of it I think. A big part, if you wind up trashing your plane.
I agree, mounting and size does belong in this thread. I always mount my cameras in the centerline of the plane and never on the wings.

[QUOTE=iskess;22809687...Steering with the rudder possibly could have saved the plane. Aileron to stop the roll, and rudder to turn the plane. Easier said than done in the heat of battle,...[/QUOTE] Very good advice. Anything resembling a spin should be recovered by rudder and neutral elevator and ailerons. Preferably with power off.
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 08:28 AM
Just thumbing through...
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United States, SC, Simpsonville
Joined Feb 2009
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Any new configuration including adding camera on the plane should first be maidened in a safe location.
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 08:49 AM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bobflyman View Post
I got some quite disappointing footage while paragliding today from my V1 16# with the new firmware. Poor light conditions admittedly, but some brown green colour hunting, just like the old 11# hd cam. Anyone else had similar? Can't say I'd ever noticed it before with this cam, but as I said it was late in the day and very grey.
Hmmm... I haven't seen any color hunting with the #16 like the #11 did. But if the light level in the scenes was marginal and changing a lot, you might have gotten a lot of exposure variations, and that can make colors change a little.
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 09:09 AM
Dance the skies...
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Incompatible Memory Card Update

A number of flash memory cards that did not work (stopped recording usually within the first minute) have been tested with the trial FW I referenced in this post, and the results are all positive. They now work!

But there's still quite a few problem cards that are listed in that post that we'd like to have tested before releasing this fix. If anyone has any of these untested problem cards and is willing to test the trial FW, please PM me with an email address where I can send the FW.

This trial FW is only for testing the card incompatibility problem, not other camera functions. So once the testing is done, a released FW from the download page here should be installed for ongoing camera use.
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 09:10 AM
Addict.
United States, NY, Binghamton
Joined Jul 2010
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v929 w/ 808 #16 - Hancock, NY (4 min 35 sec)


From a few weeks ago
I love this camera, an amazing piece of technology.
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Old Sep 23, 2012, 01:44 PM
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United Kingdom, England, Darwen
Joined Aug 2007
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[QUOTE=mike_o;22809616]Mark,
Nice flying, nice scenery, and nice video! I don't often watch 6 minutes youtube FPV videos from start to end




thankyou i enjoyed it..
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