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Old Apr 22, 2012, 12:32 PM
Ascended Master
Sparky Paul's Avatar
Palmdale, CA
Joined Oct 2000
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The video is just an ego trip. Not worth viewing. In poor taste.
And way too long.
For a smaller frontal area, remount the imager in an MD-80.. if it's not hardmounted.
Frontal area vanishes.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 12:37 PM
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Cranfield U.K.
Joined Mar 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fugitive_Bill View Post
RE: POST#5036, 'flying circus', I really hope you ....
B!LL. (who might need a Valium to calm down)
..... after 30 seconds..
+1, though being a bigot, i junked it after 3 seconds. Mike
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 12:41 PM
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hey guys quick question what video programs do most of you guys use to do your editing with the #16 camera???

I have been using youtube but it is so limited and half the time it dont work
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 12:42 PM
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Cranfield U.K.
Joined Mar 2004
3,960 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparky Paul View Post
The video is just an ego trip. Not worth viewing. In poor taste.
And way too long.
For a smaller frontal area, remount the imager in an MD-80.. if it's not hardmounted.
Frontal area vanishes.
bbbbbuutt that means buying 2 cameras (at least) then doing loadsa 'stuff' to very little, if any. effect mike
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 12:43 PM
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Thread Shut Down?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Taylor View Post
Maybe I'm just in a bad mood this morning but I'm getting really tired of wading through all these spy cam, car cam off topic posts and complaints. This is a RC web site and this is a Aerial Photography Forum. Maybe Jim Bourke doesn't mind paying for the network traffic and storage for all these off topic posts from users that have no interest in the advertizing here, but I find it increasingly annoying. This thread is now over 5000 posts and it appears to me that they are becoming more off topic all the time.

Please take your spy cam, car cam posts and how this camera doesn't have the features you want or need for your other uses somewhere else and leave this thread to those of us who want to use it for aerial photography.

Jim
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Taylor View Post
You missed the point of my post. I don't consider codecs and firmware, editing and anything that has to do with getting it to work or editing or converting the videos off topic. That's why I follow the thread. I don't even mind seeing other uses for the camera like your bicycle pictures (I use it on my bicycle also) and I even posted a OT link to a video of turkeys in my yard. Maybe I got up on the wrong side of the bed this morning but what is driving me nuts is all the posts whining about how it needs to be changed and how it doesn't do what they want it to do. It's a $39 camera (including shipping).....what do you expect. It does a pretty good job for aerial photography and a lot of other things. Use it for what it is and if you figure out how to modify it to do something else by all means post it, but don't keeping whining because it doesn't do what you want.

Jim

These posts pretty much says it all for me. I started this thread for AERIAL VIDEO discussion purposes, not for spying issues... not for car driving issues... not for other action sport use, or even for RC cars or boats, for that matter. But there is value to everyone in learning how to use the camera, troubleshooting, or even helping with some basic editing (common freeware editors only). I've considered those kinds of issues on topic, as well as some ground based flight video with the #16 camera, or even un-related short clips needed to demonstrate a problem with the camera or how a camera modification such as different firmware, different lens, etc. affects the cameras function.

But that is where the general purpose nature of this thread ends. If the #16 camera ever added AV out (a possibility!), I would want all discussion about that specific use moved over to the FPV Forum here since it will get into all kinds of side issues about downlink hardware, on-screen displays, GPS, logging, etc., etc. that are off topic in this thread, even though it involves video shot from an RC plane! And that added function would spawn tons of new users who want to use the camera for remote monitoring of the front/back door, the baby's room, sound and/or motion activation of the camera, etc. etc.. Again... WAY off topic for this thread. I hope this makes the intent here more clear for what is appropriate content and what is not.

Discussion has gone off in directions inappropriate for the intended audience. Some are treating the thread as their personal blog of camera usage that the intended audience here does not care about, and the sponsors of this thread do not want to pay for (is there an echo in here!?).

So I've come to the conclusion this thread may be at the end of its useful life span. If this current trend does not quickly come back in line with the intent of the thread, I will do one of two things. One option will be to have user registration cancelled by the moderators for those who continue to abuse the thread, so they will no longer be able to post here. The other will be to close the thread to any future posts altogether. I'm three clicks away from the latter right now. I started the thread and I will shut it down if it stays something other than what I intended. The latter would be a shame because there are some very useful changes to this camera being worked on that could become a reality soon.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 12:54 PM
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Indiana
Joined Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smittyplugs View Post
hey guys quick question what video programs do most of you guys use to do your editing with the #16 camera???

I have been using youtube but it is so limited and half the time it dont work
I am using Windows Live Movie Maker for Windows 7 its free. It will open the .mov file directly but I think it converts it first. So I have been running the .mov file through the mp4cam2avi program before bringing it into movie maker.

All that is in post #3 and more.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 01:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnGuard View Post
I am using Windows Live Movie Maker for Windows 7 its free. It will open the .mov file directly but I think it converts it first. So I have been running the .mov file through the mp4cam2avi program before bringing it into movie maker.

All that is in post #3 and more.
Sometimes, not always, WLMM will do an internal re-encoding when a long HD content video is loaded, but that is ONLY for use during the editing process to make the program work faster and smoother. During editing the image in the preview screen will look worse because of this, but the original file is retained, and that is what will be used to render your final edits. Your final output will look MUCH better that when viewed in the editor in that case, assuming you have used the right output profile for the HD content. There is only one re-encoding done to convert your original to the final edited Windows HD codec and WMV file format. Running the file through MP4cam2AVI does not add any value in this instance since WLMM can load in and edit MOV format files directly.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 01:45 PM
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Indiana
Joined Nov 2004
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Sometimes, not always, WLMM will do an internal re-encoding when a long HD content video is loaded, but that is ONLY for use during the editing process to make the program work faster and smoother. During editing the image in the preview screen will look worse because of this, but the original file is retained, and that is what will be used to render your final edits. Your final output will look MUCH better that when viewed in the editor in that case, assuming you have used the right output profile for the HD content. There is only one re-encoding done to convert your original to the final edited Windows HD codec and WMV file format. Running the file through MP4cam2AVI does not add any value in this instance since WLMM can load in and edit MOV format files directly.
Any recommendation on the output bitrate for WLMM, should I just stick to the default 10 Mpbs. I have custom settings at 3,4,5,6,and 7 Mbps. I normally save it at 7 Mbps.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 02:04 PM
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United Kingdom, England, Bristol
Joined Dec 2011
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From memory of the manual, there is little difference between the 7 & 10Mb/s in terms of quality, just a much bigger file. I think it records at a variable rate averaging about 7.4, so your 7 should be okay.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 02:04 PM
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United States, AR
Joined Mar 2009
520 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by flying circus View Post
These keychain cameras are designed to make discrete video ('spy cam'), usually hand held or body worn (on a hat). The selling points are small size, video quality, and value for the money.

Once the camera is running it is discrete, but starting it, in the heat of the moment can be a challenge, even with practice, and I've practiced. Improving that situation, for spy cam use, would be huge. If there was a version with a simple slider switch, that combined power and recording, I'd buy two more right now.

In the scene below the camera is mounted discretely on a motorbike helmet recording an encounter between a landowner, trespassers, and a sheriff deputy in a remote rural area. This is what the camera was made to do.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=luF4KLhPydc&lc
Why did you post this here? Start your own "ruin everybodys day because I'm a Territorial a#$%@hole" thread dude. Are you really proud of this video?
I apologize for my response to everybody else on this thread but this just hit a nerve. Hey Flyingcircus next time leave your crap on Youtube.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 02:04 PM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,279 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
These posts pretty much says it all for me. I started this thread for AERIAL VIDEO discussion purposes, not for spying issues... not for car driving issues... not for other action sport use, or even for RC cars or boats, for that matter. But there is value to everyone in learning how to use the camera, troubleshooting, or even helping with some basic editing (common freeware editors only). I've considered those kinds of issues on topic, as well as some ground based flight video with the #16 camera, or even un-related short clips needed to demonstrate a problem with the camera or how a camera modification such as different firmware, different lens, etc. affects the cameras function.

But that is where the general purpose nature of this thread ends. If the #16 camera ever added AV out (a possibility!), I would want all discussion about that specific use moved over to the FPV Forum here since it will get into all kinds of side issues about downlink hardware, on-screen displays, GPS, logging, etc., etc. that are off topic in this thread, even though it involves video shot from an RC plane! And that added function would spawn tons of new users who want to use the camera for remote monitoring of the front/back door, the baby's room, sound and/or motion activation of the camera, etc. etc.. Again... WAY off topic for this thread. I hope this makes the intent here more clear for what is appropriate content and what is not.

Discussion has gone off in directions inappropriate for the intended audience. Some are treating the thread as their personal blog of camera usage that the intended audience here does not care about, and the sponsors of this thread do not want to pay for (is there an echo in here!?).

So I've come to the conclusion this thread may be at the end of its useful life span. If this current trend does not quickly come back in line with the intent of the thread, I will do one of two things. One option will be to have user registration cancelled by the moderators for those who continue to abuse the thread, so they will no longer be able to post here. The other will be to close the thread to any future posts altogether. I'm three clicks away from the latter right now. I started the thread and I will shut it down if it stays something other than what I intended. The latter would be a shame because there are some very useful changes to this camera being worked on that could become a reality soon.
Tom,

Well stated. This thread is about aerial photography using the continually improving #16, $40, 15 gram HD key cam. The excursions into spycam usage, stereo sound possibilities, or any sound improvement is simply ridiculous for aerial photography. Who cares about having stereo wind or prop noise?

It might help to send a note to Chuck Lohr and have him change is characterization of this thread to reflect your intent for this thread.

Bill
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 02:07 PM
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 02:23 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OnGuard View Post
Any recommendation on the output bitrate for WLMM, should I just stick to the default 10 Mpbs. I have custom settings at 3,4,5,6,and 7 Mbps. I normally save it at 7 Mbps.
I normally target the same bit rate in WLMM that the camera shoots. The AC1 codec that WLMM uses is very good, but not quite as efficent at compression as H.264, so an "equivalent" quality would normally require slightly higher data rate in theory, but your eye cannot normally see what theory predicts with this camera due to the limited sharpness of the small CMOS imager and low cost lens. So I don't think you are losing anything by outputting at 7Mbps. In fact, I'd say I doubt you will see any visible difference in your video during play back if you record in the 7Mbps mode as well (I can't, anyway). So I never use the 10Mbps mode due to the much larger files it creates and the big hit in the recording time it produces (as high as 10 min. less).
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 02:26 PM
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United States, MA, Walpole
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Tom,
...
It might help to send a note to Chuck Lohr and have him change is characterization of this thread to reflect your intent for this thread.

Bill
Hmmm... I hadn't really looked at his link comments to be honest. Maybe that is why so many seem to feel this is the Official "eveything goes" #16 blog? I'll take a look... thanks.
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Old Apr 22, 2012, 02:32 PM
Ascended Master
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Palmdale, CA
Joined Oct 2000
13,371 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by empeabee View Post
bbbbbuutt that means buying 2 cameras (at least) then doing loadsa 'stuff' to very little, if any. effect mike
.
These things are throwaways... No user serviceable parts inside... except for the battery in the #16.
Compared to the point-n-shoots which can go for $100!!!!
And are way larger!
It's a solution to the otherwise complete reengineering of the package of the 808, which ain't gonna happen any time soon.
.
Pointing the imager on an 808 isn't that difficult.. a different hole in the case... but the image will be inverted and still in landscape orientation.
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