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Old Jan 31, 2012, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jmdlcar View Post
Do you know what date they started shipping the newer lens?
To quote Peter at eletoponline365 on 15th January, just before the CNY : 'We will have new lens with a little wider angle at our ebay store soon' - this was a sample and not purchased from his eBay store.
Let's hope a few weeks at most. I'm not sure if Tom has had chance to check yet, but there is an issue with this new shaped lens fitting correctly in the 808 case.
The front of the lens, been tapered won't clamp centrally into position and needs packing with foam. It's also shorter, leaving a sizeable gap between the PCB and the rear of the CMOS sensor.

Richard
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Old Jan 31, 2012, 06:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Sparky, you are way off base... again! The #16 camera does NOT use a tag.txt file! You are too locked into the old SD resolution 808 cameras. This one is different! Please make sure your suggestions are specific to the #16 cameras... it only adds more confusion otherwise. The GUI program outputs the config text file with date/time data as numbers... no chance for an error there. And the manual config file instructions show the necessary format (all numbers, but a "?" instead of numbers can be used to leave the date and time intact and not change anything). The original question you were replying to (I think... can't tell since you did not quote what your question your reply was meant for) was that there appears to be a bug in the firmware that causes the date not to be set if the config file has the camera auto shut-off time set to "0" (disables auto-shutdown). This will likely be fixed in the firmware when the bug is located.
.
Considering all the problems the #16 has as listed here, what's a slight deviation?
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Old Jan 31, 2012, 06:16 PM
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Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Originally Posted by jmdlcar View Post
Do you know what date they started shipping the newer lens?
According to the developer, most that were ordered during their CNY break (Jan. 20-28) and therefore not shipped promptly in their absence will likely have the 70 deg/ lens modules in them. This is not a guarantee!

And I need to point out the lens that has been shipped in the camera is not a "bad" one by any means! In fact, in some of my side-by-side tests in different lighting conditions, the "old" lens had slightly better color rendition! It varies with lighting, with low light, darker overcast days having the most noticeable difference as I showed in the image I posted. It's was just my opinion that the 70 deg. lens is preferred over a wide variety of lighting conditions. Others may actually prefer the old lens. I suspect that as the newer lens gets into wider distribution, some lens swapping might go on here (use PM please!) so some can still get the old lens if no longer avalable from the vendors.

The interesting thing, though, is how much the lens impacts the rendered video color rendition (possibly a function i=of the IR filter integrated on the rear element of the lens. And any new wider lenses being investigated that might be found suitable, might require a different firmware to get best results!
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Old Jan 31, 2012, 06:21 PM
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empeabee's Avatar
Cranfield U.K.
Joined Mar 2004
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Originally Posted by Sparky Paul View Post
.
what's a slight deviation?
As the blind man said as he broke his nose on a lamp post that had just jumped into his path. Mike
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Old Jan 31, 2012, 06:23 PM
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United States, MA, Walpole
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Originally Posted by timetec View Post
To quote Peter at eletoponline365 on 15th January, just before the CNY : 'We will have new lens with a little wider angle at our ebay store soon' - this was a sample and not purchased from his eBay store.
Let's hope a few weeks at most. I'm not sure if Tom has had chance to check yet, but there is an issue with this new shaped lens fitting correctly in the 808 case.
The front of the lens, been tapered won't clamp centrally into position and needs packing with foam. It's also shorter, leaving a sizeable gap between the PCB and the rear of the CMOS sensor.

Richard
The standard lens has some of those same issues, just not as much. Both of my cameras with the standard and 70 deg. lens had spongy, double-sided foam packing to help secure it and hold it near the front of the case. But I've found the #11 case to also not center the lens well, and with the #16, I got the ghost images with old and new lenses due to reflection off the lens hole in the case, so I've reamed a taper on the case hole and opened it up slightly anyway, so repositioning/packing the lens is not an unusual problem with the cameras for me. Easily corrected.
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Old Jan 31, 2012, 06:34 PM
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USA, OH, Marysville
Joined May 2010
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timetec View Post
To quote Peter at eletoponline365 on 15th January, just before the CNY : 'We will have new lens with a little wider angle at our ebay store soon' - this was a sample and not purchased from his eBay store.
Let's hope a few weeks at most. I'm not sure if Tom has had chance to check yet, but there is an issue with this new shaped lens fitting correctly in the 808 case.
The front of the lens, been tapered won't clamp centrally into position and needs packing with foam. It's also shorter, leaving a sizeable gap between the PCB and the rear of the CMOS sensor.

Richard
I must have the new lens. Mine was ship on Jan 19. I took a video today and it looks like it needs focus. I don't fly any rc planes so I would like focus from 0 to about 50 feet. I would like to fix it but I don't want to break it.
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Old Jan 31, 2012, 06:46 PM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
If you got that lens from eletoponline365, that should be the 70 deg. AOV (full diagonal) lens I was testing for the developer. I posted both indoor and outdoor side-by-side video comparison videos not long ago in this thread (I think). The lens/module is available for US $8.95 and cameras are now going to be shipped with this newer lens. The AOV difference is really quite small, but this lens has noticeably better color rendition with the v0.18 firmware.
Tom,

I just paid for a pair of the lens/modules via Paypal this morning. Next, is the wait for the shipping.

Bill
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Old Jan 31, 2012, 06:48 PM
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United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
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Originally Posted by Sparky Paul View Post
.
Considering all the problems the #16 has as listed here, what's a slight deviation?
I don't have any idea what all the problems you are referring to... most problems have now been corrected. So I don't know in what context your "slight deviation" reference applies to.

But let's leave it at this... A "slight deviation" is one that does NOT go into any problems or solutions applying to the old 808 camera designs! They are old and obsolete, with the case being the ONLY thing that they have in common with the #11 and #16 cameras. And there is a whole thread dedicated to those cameras already.. So any reference to problems/solutions with the old SD cameras are off topic here and only confuse reader when referring to them. The same actually applies to the #11HD camera.

The reason I'm so "anal" about this is over a year ago I started a thread for ONLY the #11 camera, just to get it out of the confusing discussion about the dozen other low res versions that are still in use. And when the #16 came out, it is different enough from the #11 that I starter THIS thread just for it, so people don't get confused with questions/answers that don't apply to their version of the HD camera. And I've spent months of my time trying to keep the focus of these two threads on their specific thread topic camera. And now the #1080 is starting a whole new ball game, hence the thread I started for it.

So I ask everyone to consider the thread topic when posting and whether the input is of value to those who come here for #16 specific information. That's how the thread methodology is supposed to work, but so many turn in topic-deviation-of-the-day blogs after a short while that they become worthless for people looking for help on the thread subject.

I think I've stated this at least once before..... or twice.....
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Old Jan 31, 2012, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Tom,

I just paid for a pair of the lens/modules via Paypal this morning. Next, is the wait for the shipping.

Bill
Did the US $8.95 include shipping? That would be a VERY fair price for a plug-n-play CMOS/lens module!
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Old Jan 31, 2012, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by jmdlcar View Post
I must have the new lens. Mine was ship on Jan 19. I took a video today and it looks like it needs focus. I don't fly any rc planes so I would like focus from 0 to about 50 feet. I would like to fix it but I don't want to break it.
Don't use the ship date as an absolute confirmation of the lens type. Look at the focusing knob configuration.

The lens, being very small aperature, has a VERY deep depth of field. In fact, normal focusing gives the best focus it can deliver from about 2 ft. to infinite. I don't know how that range extrapolates to your desired range. Close up in the range of several inches is getting in "macro" mode, and you'll sacrifice the depth of field in the process, so I doubt you'll get your wish of 0 to 50 feet. Some one here (or in the #11 thread) has done some close up tests... use the "search this thread" function to look for it if you haven't already found it.

Don't have any suggestions if you are afraid to try it, other than follow the tips linked in the FAQs, with the knowledge you can replace the entire lens and CMOS module for only $9!
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Old Jan 31, 2012, 07:10 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
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Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
Did the US $8.95 include shipping? That would be a VERY fair price for a plug-n-play CMOS/lens module!
Yes, the $8.95 each included shipping for the pair. Maybe when you buy just one he may charge for shipping. Peter was clear he doesn't normally sell just the lens which is what I needed, but rather "We did not plan to sell the lens only, but a whole camera module (with the sensor and cable), so user can replace with it easily."


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Old Jan 31, 2012, 07:35 PM
Cap'n Chaos
Joined Dec 2009
73 Posts
Patriot LX Series 4GB Class 10 Fails w v18 Firmware

Not really a surprise. It did work fine with v16 firmware. With v18 firmware results were similar to other class 10 cards: 30-90 seconds of recording and stalls, sometimes with the yellow LED illuminated.

In device formatting seemed to shorten record times to 30s, SDFormatter formats resulted in a typical 90s duration.

I'm curious if others have checked the random write speeds of their class 10 cards. The Patriot XL is similar or worse than my old class 4's in that regard.

Anyone have an idea of the amount of data that is written during a typical 'write to flash' operation?

As an 808 #3 user, this is a nice successor. Thank you to all who put in the extra effort to make it more useful.
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Old Jan 31, 2012, 07:47 PM
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Originally Posted by capnchaos View Post
Not really a surprise. It did work fine with v16 firmware. With v18 firmware results were similar to other class 10 cards: 30-90 seconds of recording and stalls, sometimes with the yellow LED illuminated.

In device formatting seemed to shorten record times to 30s, SDFormatter formats resulted in a typical 90s duration.

I'm curious if others have checked the random write speeds of their class 10 cards. The Patriot XL is similar or worse than my old class 4's in that regard.

Anyone have an idea of the amount of data that is written during a typical 'write to flash' operation?

As an 808 #3 user, this is a nice successor. Thank you to all who put in the extra effort to make it more useful.
Thanks for confirming another Class 10 card incompatibility! I wish I knew more about how/when the video DSP writes to the flash card.

I suspect some card maunfacturer's may be modifying their embedded controllers to favor sequential writing to get their CL 10 speed clas ratings, at the expense of random write speed, and without changing the memory structure itself to get faster writes.

I wish the card speed classification were expanded as a minimum, to take into account the random write speeds, or done away with entirely and just require a manufacturer to post their memory speeds in sequential and random read/writes for all to see up front. The speed class rating are SO misleading!
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Old Jan 31, 2012, 07:48 PM
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I bought a new 16 GB class 6 Transcend microSDHC card, but the camera is not working properly with this card. Video recordings stop after about one minute. I have configured the LED to blink during recording, and when the video stops, the LED stays either on or off, depending on the particular moment. The camera does not return to video standby, because when I press the power button, it does not switch to photo mode. Instead the yellow LED starts to blink very fast (~ 3Hz) until I switch off the camera.

Another problem is that the in-camera formatting does not work as described in the manual. In removable disk mode, I press the shutter button, pull the USB cable, and hold the shutter button for more than 10 seconds, but the red LED won't switch off. The format seems to be successful, because the card is empty afterwards.

As a test, I downgraded the firmware from 0.18 to 0.16, but that doesn't change the behavior. I completely tested the memory card with h2testw (Writing speed: 7.64 MByte/s). I tried the in-camera formatting on both Linux and Windows XP. The camera works fine with a no-name (brand "Traveler") 4GB card.

It seems that this camera is rather picky about memory cards. This is now the second card I bought for this camera that has problems. The first one (8 GB class 10 ADATA) wouldn't work as removable disk on Linux. I hope the developer reads this and is able to resolve these problems in a future firmware version.
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Old Jan 31, 2012, 08:09 PM
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Canton, Michigan USA
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Originally Posted by ds64 View Post
I bought a new 16 GB class 6 Transcend microSDHC card, but the camera is not working properly with this card. Video recordings stop after about one minute. I have configured the LED to blink during recording, and when the video stops, the LED stays either on or off, depending on the particular moment. The camera does not return to video standby, because when I press the power button, it does not switch to photo mode. Instead the yellow LED starts to blink very fast (~ 3Hz) until I switch off the camera.

Another problem is that the in-camera formatting does not work as described in the manual. In removable disk mode, I press the shutter button, pull the USB cable, and hold the shutter button for more than 10 seconds, but the red LED won't switch off. The format seems to be successful, because the card is empty afterwards.

As a test, I downgraded the firmware from 0.18 to 0.16, but that doesn't change the behavior. I completely tested the memory card with h2testw (Writing speed: 7.64 MByte/s). I tried the in-camera formatting on both Linux and Windows XP. The camera works fine with a no-name (brand "Traveler") 4GB card.

It seems that this camera is rather picky about memory cards. This is now the second card I bought for this camera that has problems. The first one (8 GB class 10 ADATA) wouldn't work as removable disk on Linux. I hope the developer reads this and is able to resolve these problems in a future firmware version.
In bold above. At the risk of being Capt. Obvious, If the camera works on no-name 4GB car why not use it? What class of 4 GB card? I have used Kingston 4 and 8 GB class 4 cards in my No. 11 and No. 16. No problems.
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Last edited by Prof100; Jan 31, 2012 at 08:52 PM.
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