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Old Jan 20, 2012, 10:36 PM
Drifting off the reservation..
JumpySticks's Avatar
USA, LA, Broussard
Joined Jan 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
If it were possible, instead of a blanket EV+/- I'd like that toggle to be a bottom centre, centre, top centre exposure toggle.
If you blanket EV+1 then when you're looking at (mainly) the ground then it will expose correctly and then increase brightness 1 stop. Not terrible but maybe a little annoying no? Only when you were pointing mainly at the sky would you get a better exposed ground, but for the rest of the time (straight and level) it might be poorer than current.
The best way for that (from a purely end user PoV) is maybe multiple firmwares but then that's even more for the dev to manage... and from experience, his job is already hard enough without doing annoying revision/version management.
A FW0.19 - with sub-versions FW0.19cw, FW0.19lw and FW0.19uw (centre, lower and upper weighted exposure respectively) which could do EV+/- would be more than enough for most of our applications I think. Depends how tricky it is to write in to the code.
(damned annoying customers! - sorry.)


That said, I would choose EV+/- control over volume control every time.
The contour camera uses a text file entry to set the variable in the firmware for selection of metering, among other settings.
It has three options, spot, average and middle...

Auto Exposure(AE)
(C)Center
(A)Average
(S)Spot
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Old Jan 20, 2012, 10:42 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,542 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
Wow, that is quite the science experiment. I liked the lower right best but have no idea if it reflects reality.
Lower right is essentially the v0.18 color control before the corrupt file changes were added, and with the different lens. That's definitlely the best combo, but like you, indoor video is not why I bought the camera. The colors are not bad with the lower right config, with incandescent light being the worst, but still good compared to prior firmware. Similar out door comparisons were also made, with the same firmware/hardware combo coming out on top, with colors VERY close to natural outside.
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Old Jan 20, 2012, 10:45 PM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
The contour camera uses a text file entry to set the variable in the firmware for selection of metering, among other settings.
It has three options, spot, average and middle...

Auto Exposure(AE)
(C)Center
(A)Average
(S)Spot
I'm not sure a 120 size heli can manage that though!
I honestly think unless you start adding an orientation sensor to the cam, centre weighted with EV comp is probably the best way to go unless you want to record in RAW format... :ugh:
For $40 I already think this is pretty amazing.
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Old Jan 20, 2012, 10:47 PM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
16,422 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
The contour camera uses a text file entry to set the variable in the firmware for selection of metering, among other settings.
It has three options, spot, average and middle...

Auto Exposure(AE)
(C)Center
(A)Average
(S)Spot
OK, but the Contour camera is $150 to $300. This key cam is $40.
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Old Jan 20, 2012, 11:05 PM
Drifting off the reservation..
JumpySticks's Avatar
USA, LA, Broussard
Joined Jan 2011
2,296 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Prof100 View Post
OK, but the Contour camera is $150 to $300. This key cam is $40.
I'm not bad mouthing the #16. I fly 2 jumbo 11's and two #16's. I'm just suggesting something for future improvement, manageable through the configuration text file, assuming there is room to modify the firmware for such a variable test. Wishin and hopin'...

I also have a contour gps and a bloggie, and I don't fly them any more. They are streamlined enough, mounted mostly inside a modified canopy, but both are pretty heavy and 1080p file size is impractical overkill.

The keycams at 1 oz or less, and very low profile, are the state of the art tool for RCAP.
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Old Jan 20, 2012, 11:09 PM
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Prof100's Avatar
Canton, Michigan USA
Joined Jul 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
I'm not bad mouthing the #16. I fly 2 jumbo 11's and two #16's. I'm just suggesting something for future improvement, manageable through the configuration text file, assuming there is room to modify the firmware for such a variable test. Wishin and hopin'...

I also have a contour gps and a bloggie, and I don't fly them any more. They are streamlined enough, mounted mostly inside a modified canopy, but both are pretty heavy and 1080p file size is impractical overkill.

The keycams at 1 oz or less, and very low profile, are the state of the art tool for RCAP.
I guess we can always ask. 2 years ago a HD key cam would have seemed crazy.
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Old Jan 20, 2012, 11:11 PM
If it spins, wear it.
whirlcap's Avatar
Northern Nevada
Joined Jan 2011
2,252 Posts
I think it's about time to admit it.... I think the #16 is everything we hoped it would be the day we all first heard about it. The firmware has come through to work out it's "bugs" and in a pretty short time frame too. The config setup gives us some control, maybe more than anyone asked for before it was here even. For the average KC user, I bet it's overkill already.

My hat is off to Tom Frank and the developers for all their hard work and time! I am more than pleased with the product now with the new firmware. Anyone wanting to split hairs over what more can be done should start making suggestions for the next generation camera and stop worring about what more can be done with this one. It's like asking Angelina Jolie if she can be just a little bit prettier?

My two cents, take it with a grain of salt as usual
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Old Jan 20, 2012, 11:15 PM
Drifting off the reservation..
JumpySticks's Avatar
USA, LA, Broussard
Joined Jan 2011
2,296 Posts
Contrary to the Star Trek intro, there really is no "final frontier". We will always want more. Angelina Jolie? She's yesterday.....
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Old Jan 20, 2012, 11:21 PM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,542 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by thwaitm View Post
If it were possible, instead of a blanket EV+/- I'd like that toggle to be a bottom centre, centre, top centre exposure toggle.
If you blanket EV+1 then when you're looking at (mainly) the ground then it will expose correctly and then increase brightness 1 stop. Not terrible but maybe a little annoying no? Only when you were pointing mainly at the sky would you get a better exposed ground, but for the rest of the time (straight and level) it might be poorer than current.
The best way for that (from a purely end user PoV) is maybe multiple firmwares but then that's even more for the dev to manage... and from experience, his job is already hard enough without doing annoying revision/version management.
A FW0.19 - with sub-versions FW0.19cw, FW0.19lw and FW0.19uw (centre, lower and upper weighted exposure respectively) which could do EV+/- would be more than enough for most of our applications I think. Depends how tricky it is to write in to the code.
(damned annoying customers! - sorry.)


That said, I would choose EV+/- control over volume control every time.
I agree with what you've said. It's possible, I think, with firmware rather than user toggles due to memory limits. The CMOS in the #16 has 16 available options for metering location/size and AGC.

But as long as we're pipe dreaming, for me, I would create memory space (if it were enough) for the other options by eliminating user toggles for data rate (7Mbps ave rate is plenty), auto shut off (1 min. or 2 min. fixed), No audio toggle (I can attentuate or kill it by other means), no loop recording (I'll never use it), no recording indicator option (always on... I'm not a spy) and just one fixed movie cycle (70 min. for the MOV firmware and 5 min. and 70 min. for the AVI firmware to accomodate the loop recording function.) So rather than 3 software versions just for moving metering area, have a version for those with better aerial photography in mind with the desired user toggles, and another version for those with other uses in mine where things like loop recording, volume control, no LEDs, longer/shorter shutdown time, and varied movie cycle times are considered more important.

But first there are still other things needing to be addressed with the #16, namely getting the 640x480 60fps mode to spit out 60 unique fps rather than the 60 fps frame-doubled output it had before that mode was pulled pending revision. Then the AVI firmware output needs to be revised with an editable AVI format, if that is even possible with the developer tool kit.

After that, who knows? We could be surprised again. The #16 showed up unexpectedly with all these neat toggles and other improvements!
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jan 20, 2012 at 11:35 PM.
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Old Jan 20, 2012, 11:22 PM
If it spins, wear it.
whirlcap's Avatar
Northern Nevada
Joined Jan 2011
2,252 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
Contrary to the Star Trek intro, there really is no "final frontier". We will always want more. Angelina Jolie? She's yesterday.....
There is "cute", "hot", "sexy" and the newest girl on the block but I was trying to think of a good example of "pretty".

Edit Angelina Jolie to <insert name of pretty girl here>
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Old Jan 20, 2012, 11:27 PM
that's gonna leave a scar
KCinNC's Avatar
United States, NC, Mooresville
Joined Aug 2007
3,475 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by JumpySticks View Post
The contour camera uses a text file entry to set the variable in the firmware for selection of metering, among other settings.
It has three options, spot, average and middle...

Auto Exposure(AE)
(C)Center
(A)Average
(S)Spot
my head just exploded
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Old Jan 20, 2012, 11:39 PM
Drifting off the reservation..
JumpySticks's Avatar
USA, LA, Broussard
Joined Jan 2011
2,296 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by KCinNC View Post
my head just exploded
No need to stress over it....it's not a political discussion.
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 12:05 AM
Team WarpSquad
Japan, Tokyo
Joined Jun 2011
2,871 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Frank View Post
I agree with what you've said. It's possible, I think, with firmware rather than user toggles due to memory limits. The CMOS in the #16 has 16 available options for metering location/size and AGC.

But as long as we're pipe dreaming, for me, I would create memory space (if it were enough) for the other options by eliminating user toggles for data rate (7Mbps ave rate is plenty), auto shut off (1 min. or 2 min. fixed), No audio toggle (I can attentuate or kill it by other means), no loop recording (I'll never use it), no recording indicator option (always on... I'm not a spy) and just one fixed movie cycle (70 min. for the MOV firmware and 5 min. and 70 min. for the AVI firmware to accomodate the loop recording function.) So rather than 3 software versions just for moving metering area, have a version for those with better aerial photography in mind with the desired user toggles, and another version for those with other uses in mine where things like loop recording, volume control, no LEDs, longer/shorter shutdown time, and varied movie cycle times are considered more important.

But first there are still other things needing to be addressed with the #16, namely getting the 640x480 60fps mode to spit out 60 unique fps rather than the 60 fps frame-doubled output it had before that mode was pulled pending revision. Then the AVI firmware output needs to be revised with an editable AVI format, if that is even possible with the developer tool kit.

After that, who knows? We could be surprised again. The #16 showed up unexpectedly with all these neat toggles and other improvements!
Sounds like you already have the solutions! I think I'll buy one now and use it while waiting for the 'ultra' FW!
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 12:28 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,542 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by timetec View Post
5.3.1 Manual white balance control
......
5.3.2 Automatic white balance control
...
Richard
I meant to ask since you have the developers manual, what does it say about the "lens correction" function? Is it for vignetting mitigation? If so, is some kind of automatic function once calibrated for a given lens, or does it have on/off toggles? How about the gain control?
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Old Jan 21, 2012, 12:36 AM
Dance the skies...
Tom Frank's Avatar
United States, MA, Walpole
Joined Dec 2003
17,542 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by ds64 View Post
I have a suggestion for the firmware developer. It would be nice if there would be a way to load a new syscfg.txt file without setting the time. Now you have to adjust the time and press the buttons at exactly the right time every time you want to adjust some setting.

One way to implement this is to skip the date/time setting when the digits are replaced by some other character like a dash. Another way is to add an extra field with a flag [1], that controls whether the date/time should be updated or not.
Looks like this post didn't get a response. There are two ways to load the sysconfig file without setting the time. The first, when using the GUI is trivial... select "no" under the "Set Date/Time" function and the date/time will NOT be reset (what else could it mean?). It can also be done by manually editing the config file and this is documented in post #4 (mandatory reading for all thread users). I was going to reiterate that section here, but I don't feel like typing it all over again, so I'll just ask you to read that section for the details.
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Last edited by Tom Frank; Jan 21, 2012 at 01:19 AM. Reason: corrected method references
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