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Old Nov 19, 2012, 04:40 AM
Team Park Pilot - Airborne
OzparkPilot's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Sydney
Joined Nov 2006
4,499 Posts
Ok.. How many hours do YOU have spinning in a full size ? I have over 120 ! ( 700 total time and alot of them intermediate aerobatics )

Not trying to compare dongles here but mate.. I have done SOLO spin training in glider. up to RV-8s .

Ian, I'm not disputing the fact that I own a $150k RV-8 but you have refined... and provided great testing for the X8 - You have added ALOT to the development but your not taking into account my real world FULL scale aerobatic flying... I

im no expert, sure I have won advanced IMAC many times and built several aircraft and tested them at the ripe old age of 17 ( full scale ) but Im all ears about your lessons.. Really..
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 04:51 AM
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Daemon's Avatar
Lakewood, Colorado
Joined Aug 2002
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I have no experience spin testing full scale conventional aircraft.
Likewise, you have no experience spin testing large heavy flying wings, full scale or otherwise. Correct?

Your full scale and IMAC honed instincts *will* get you into trouble trying to recover an X8
from a spin. The X8 does not have a rudder. Moving the rudder stick, will have
no effect. If you mix rudder to aileron (which I do, BTW), and then move the rudder stick
the same way you would on a full scale or IMAC plane to recover from a spin, it will not
recover for the reason I've already outlined above. This isn't theory, this is reality. I'm sure
you've seen my spin testing video by now. It sounds like you just didn't quite understand
the implications of it.

ian
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 04:57 AM
Team Park Pilot - Airborne
OzparkPilot's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Sydney
Joined Nov 2006
4,499 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
I have no experience spin testing full scale conventional aircraft.
Likewise, you have no experience spin testing large heavy flying wings, full scale or otherwise. Correct?

Your full scale and IMAC honed instincts *will* get you into trouble trying to recover an X8
from a spin. The X8 does not have a rudder. Moving the rudder stick, will have
no effect. If you mix rudder to aileron (which I do, BTW), and then move the rudder stick
the same way you would on a full scale or IMAC plane to recover from a spin, it will not
recover for the reason I've already outlined above. This isn't theory, this is reality. I'm sure
you've seen my spin testing video by now. It sounds like you just didn't quite understand
the implications of it.

ian

Thanks for the reply Ian.. I'm not trying to have a go.. really, you have by now done your homework and know my job

Yes, seen all your videos. great job. I have been watching and unpacked and repacked several times. Ok.. I'm unpacking again...
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 05:08 AM
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Finland, Pirkanmaa, Valkeakoski
Joined Sep 2012
498 Posts
In this context I would like to repeat my question if a vectored thrust system, like the one the Scimitar has, would be beneficial and could help get out of a stall?
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 05:21 AM
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Lakewood, Colorado
Joined Aug 2002
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Maybe.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 06:45 AM
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Finland, Pirkanmaa, Valkeakoski
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I'm just thinking... If the bird spins e.g. clockwise, vthrust yaw left would maybe help stop the spin. The demo videos of the Scimitar show the pilot putting the bird into a flat spin intentionally - and of course, recovering it.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 07:10 AM
dave2525
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Australia, NSW, Caringbah South
Joined Dec 2011
77 Posts
Is anyone else more concerned that a video just got posted on the internet showing a large rc plane going down directly over a highly populated area??? This sort of thing is what's fueling the anti rc plane/heli mobs....
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 10:17 AM
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Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dave2046 View Post
Is anyone else more concerned that a video just got posted on the internet showing a large rc plane going down directly over a highly populated area??? This sort of thing is what's fueling the anti rc plane/heli mobs....
Yeah, that was pretty stupid. One of those kids could have gotten beaned. Then we would have been talking about that rather than how to get an X8 out of a spin.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 01:16 PM
What goes up, must come down
crazy1pilot's Avatar
United States, MI, Midland
Joined Sep 2009
705 Posts
I think everyone should go up high, and practice spins. we hope it will never happen but when it does you will know exactly what to do and how to recover! just dont do it over populated areas and of course,,, make a video!

Crazy1
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by crazy1pilot View Post
I think everyone should go up high, and practice spins. we hope it will never happen but when it does you will know exactly what to do and how to recover! just dont do it over populated areas and of course,,, make a video!

Crazy1
This has been done by a few of us already. The problem with going up high is that unless you've got a cameraman who can track the plane and zoom in at the appropriate times, all you see is a spec in the sky. In this first video, I took it up very high as I half believed all the doom and gloom from those who post here about a stall being the harbinger of death for an X8. So, I went out and purposely stalled it over 1/2 dozen times just to see what would happen. Well, nothing! In all cases, I just made sure the throttle was off and I let go of the sticks. In most cases, it just flopped over and pointed nose down and when the airspeed was enough, I just pulled out without power. In 2 of those stalls, I purposely put it into a spin and with throttle closed, I let go of the sticks. (It would not go into a spin on its own.) It stopped spinning very quickly, pointed itself nose down and I pulled out when the airspeed was sufficient. In every case, the X8 recovered on its own in 50 - 100 feet of altitude. You can't really see all the times it stalls or spun. You just have to believe me -- or not. I have my X8 slightly nose heavy, with the CG set at about 15mm in front of the published recommended place. Most, if not all of the death stalls/spins we've seen were with FPV or autopilot flown X8s.
X8 Skywalker Wing - hat cam (6 min 39 sec)


On a subsequent flight, I mounted the camera on the X8 and took it up and stalled it a few times. Same thing happened - nothing!
Stalling X8, onboard Sony Webbie (4 min 3 sec)


Oh, and then comes a few who posted that you absolutely CANNOT install airbrakes (spoilers) on an X8 because it's a flying wing. So, I went out and installed them and flew it and got the video of several flights with them being used. Don't believe everything you see posted in internet forums. Some guys will post up stuff when they haven't even taken the plane out of the box. They'll even relate to us all their real world flying experience and apply it to the X8. Flying a real airplane can, at times, be NOTHING like flying an RC foamie. Build some of the RC foamies we fly into a full sized, manned aircraft and they'll likely fall out of the sky if you fart too hard.
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 04:11 PM
Never fly an A model anything!
jayb1rdz's Avatar
Antarctica
Joined Apr 2008
4,984 Posts
Hey XV, I take it when you center the sticks, you do not have an Auto-pilot engaged?

I would be coming up to nearly 100 flights on mine.... admittedly all short range by comparison to many here. Whilst I have never experienced the stall problem at all, I am happy that some pioneers here are testing the envelope.

Mine is light, uncomplicated and VERY reliable. It doesn't flip when it lands, It has no bad habbits at all. I fly with a smaller prop than most and probably a higher KV at 1190 , on 4s. It does me fine for my range and flying time.

I DO fly with an ear piece so I can hear RPM as ground speed is not the best indicator of air speed. Landing for me is almost a series of stalls. I cut the throttle and glide back to launch. I watch the nose drop, level each time stepping down in altitude and speed. A blip on the throttle to bring it on close,so I dont have to walk far. I will weigh mine next time out but there is not much to it with the flight pack a 4000 or 5000 mah 4s and 3s 2200 VTX pack. the usual flight gear but no GoPro or onboard recording . That's all done on the ground. J
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 05:25 PM
Team Park Pilot - Airborne
OzparkPilot's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Sydney
Joined Nov 2006
4,499 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by dave2046 View Post
Is anyone else more concerned that a video just got posted on the internet showing a large rc plane going down directly over a highly populated area??? This sort of thing is what's fueling the anti rc plane/heli mobs....
Whats kind of worring was the throttle kept engaging as he held it and we all know what kind of damage a X8 prop can and will do ( or any prop for that matter )

if you look at the very end of the video, you can see the police arrive and the guy holding the X8 goes and hides it lol...
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 05:27 PM
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Lakewood, Colorado
Joined Aug 2002
28,936 Posts
I'm sure the throttle was engaged intentionally. It ramped up and down smoothly, and not
like it would due to failsafe. He was trying everything he could think of, except for
the right thing.

ian
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 05:31 PM
Team Park Pilot - Airborne
OzparkPilot's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Sydney
Joined Nov 2006
4,499 Posts
and yet he clearly got the aircraft back
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Old Nov 19, 2012, 06:06 PM
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Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jayb1rdz View Post
Hey XV, I take it when you center the sticks, you do not have an Auto-pilot engaged?
I fly my X8 strictly manually and always by direct visual contact. I don't fly FPV or use autopilot. There's another fellow at my flying field who uses an X8 for commercial purposes and his is fully loaded with all the electronic and photographic gear. His even measures airspeed and he's programmed it to maintain a certain minimum airspeed at all times. Don't ask me what that is. His gear is way too complicated for me to understand. We ended up flying at the same time a couple days ago. I fly mine more as a glider and he flies his mostly on preset automatic parameters and was doing flight tests that day. He did follow me around a little bit at one point just to get some video feeds of mine.
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