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Old Jul 27, 2012, 12:39 AM
Team Park Pilot - Airborne
OzparkPilot's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Sydney
Joined Nov 2006
4,459 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
Center fin swept flying wings fly ok (less drag, bit faster, nice yaw tracking), until you hit em
with another combat wing, and then they spin and spin.. We'd always
go after them first in the combat swarm. Obviously a bit of a problem
trying to do that with a pusher prop in the way.

ian
so that was YOU !!!!!!!!!
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 01:58 AM
Fly like a bird
Beijing & ShenZhen, China
Joined May 2010
480 Posts
About the detachable of the wings, there is a precise plastic hold kit with golden electronical connection nodes is under development, will be released this year I think.

Hope my bad english can be understood.

BTW, don't forget the 10% discounts coupon code: bevrc2years, I only make it public in this thread.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 02:38 AM
Team Park Pilot - Airborne
OzparkPilot's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Sydney
Joined Nov 2006
4,459 Posts
Ohhh ! Its BevRc !! How... NICE !!!
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 09:37 AM
Look out! The lever!
bobthenuke's Avatar
United States, AZ, Peoria
Joined Feb 2005
2,601 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by idletime View Post
@ bobthenuke

Nice work......what I want to know is where you got the 'clips' that hold the wings on.

Pray tell.
These are "Strut Pins" and Retainer clips borrowed from my Hanger 9 25% Cub. I imagine that they are sold separately by Horizon Hobby. HTH

-bob
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 09:41 AM
Look out! The lever!
bobthenuke's Avatar
United States, AZ, Peoria
Joined Feb 2005
2,601 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by aviatorgeek View Post
I have this have black fiberglass cloth for finishing and strength. Bit on the heavy side (let the critics come out of the woodwork now) but probably similar in weight to that vinyl stuff that isn't going to add much, if any strength.

The lighter cloths used for modeling while they are lightweight, don't add as much strength as a heavier weave. Their glass to resin ratio is higher.

However, that looks great and gives me an idea of how mine will turn out.
Actually, the vinyl does increase the strength a bit, but you're right - nothing like bonding CF or FG cloth. I just didn't consider adding that additional work to a beer cooler foam airframe. Now, if it had a FG center section and sheeted foam wings that would be a much different story. :-)

-bob
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 09:45 AM
Look out! The lever!
bobthenuke's Avatar
United States, AZ, Peoria
Joined Feb 2005
2,601 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
Bad. And if you ever tip stall (which it would be more prone to do)
it'll enter a spin from which there's no hope of recovery.
The B2 has no winglets, and it takes "duckeron" style spoilers and
fast computers to keep it pointed into the wind consistently.

ian
I'm sorry to hear about that haven't flown mine yet. Is it possible that the recommended CG is a bit far aft? I set mine about .5 cm forward of the rear of the two finger holes. FWIW, I have a ZII which would stall in a heartbeat until I moved the CG about 1/4 " forward and it's as stable as a rock.

I also read where someone wants to increase the size of the winglets to help with yaw issues...if it's a real problem it may be worth looking into the system Rollin Klingberg used on his wings...very clever, effective and easy to modify the X8 winglets to operate the same way.

-bob
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 10:58 AM
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Daemon's Avatar
Lakewood, Colorado
Joined Aug 2002
28,380 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobthenuke View Post
I'm sorry to hear about that haven't flown mine yet. Is it possible that the recommended CG is a bit far aft? I set mine about .5 cm forward of the rear of the two finger holes. FWIW, I have a ZII which would stall in a heartbeat until I moved the CG about 1/4 " forward and it's as stable as a rock.
You're sorry to hear what? That a hypothetical X8 without winglets wouldn't fly
properly? Changing CG won't fix that.

Quote:
I also read where someone wants to increase the size of the winglets to help with yaw issues...
The X8 does *not* have yaw issues (like the ZII, or Foamaroo do).

ian
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 11:21 AM
AP-stick
ggtronic's Avatar
Montreal
Joined Nov 2005
1,627 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
The X8 does *not* have yaw issues (like the ZII, or Foamaroo do). ian
agree with this...
but i would not pretend that Z2 have yaw issue
Zephyr II weekend 2 (2 min 12 sec)


X8 have ROLL instability issue : you need to fly it FPV to understand...
nothing serious... it just make wide video shaky and ortho photo to ground
unstable...

it may have something to do with its flat bottom airfoil (big clark Y airfoil) ?

i would NOT make the winglet bigger, but smaller , further back
and with as much surface as possible under the wing :
Burt Ruttan already figure this...look at this electric airplane :



my X8 with moded winglet is ready for maiden... will give some news soon...
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 11:44 AM
Look out! The lever!
bobthenuke's Avatar
United States, AZ, Peoria
Joined Feb 2005
2,601 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
You're sorry to hear what? That a hypothetical X8 without winglets wouldn't fly
properly? Changing CG won't fix that.


The X8 does *not* have yaw issues (like the ZII, or Foamaroo do).

ian
Sorry, I missed that earlier post regarding flying it without the winglets. However, FWIW, I also fly a ZII and have no yaw issues with it.

-bob
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 12:04 PM
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Lakewood, Colorado
Joined Aug 2002
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggtronic View Post
agree with this...
but i would not pretend that Z2 have yaw issue
What's proven by posting a video flying in zero wind conditions?
It happens in the same bumpy air that makes most other planes roll.
I've seen a bunch of yaw wobbly ZII videos, and have seen several ZII
owners who complain of it. I don't fly one, so can only go by that.
Here's an example.
ZII EPIC FLIGHT (6 min 0 sec)

play it full screen, and just hold your finger in the middle of the screen.
Can see that it's fine until it hits a little turbulence, then yaw waggles
several times before stabilizing again. My Foamaroo does
the same thing. The X8 does not. Maybe it's the winglets, maybe not.
Foamaroo has same style winglets as the ZII though, so I'm curious
to see what results you get when you put them on the X8.

ian
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Last edited by Daemon; Jul 27, 2012 at 12:19 PM.
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 02:42 PM
Mum is the word!
Joined Jun 2003
6,781 Posts
For one thing Ian is these two planes are not even close in design , so comparing these is not even a good comparison .

With the differant planform layout of the X8 compared to the ZII and the foamaro the X8 is not somthing you would even attemp 80 % of the type of flying we do with the ZII.

The ZII is stubby platform and is made to do what it does, you do these things with the X8 and you will fluterly destroy it.
I doubt it will even clip a branch and stay together.

The yaw wobble on the stubby platform will be more inherant at lower speeds , but if the ZII is built , ballanced and piloted well its very very minimal if any.
A long swept wing like the X8 will be more yaw stable at lower speed than the ZII , we know that.

Seing you comparing these on a regular basis is getting old, compare apples to apples please.

The X8 is a great plane for what it is , and what it is, is not a ZII , the ZII has never claimed to be an X8.

Have fun with your X8!


Here is what the ZII does when piloted well and built and ballanced rite!


FPV Demon Maiden Flight (4 min 44 sec)


FPV ZII In Puerto Vallarta (4 min 27 sec)


The Coastline ZII FPV (4 min 12 sec)


ZII No Way Out FPV (3 min 19 sec)



Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
What's proven by posting a video flying in zero wind conditions?
It happens in the same bumpy air that makes most other planes roll.
I've seen a bunch of yaw wobbly ZII videos, and have seen several ZII
owners who complain of it. I don't fly one, so can only go by that.
Here's an example.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dWkGfTAfHlo
play it full screen, and just hold your finger in the middle of the screen.
Can see that it's fine until it hits a little turbulence, then yaw waggles
several times before stabilizing again. My Foamaroo does
the same thing. The X8 does not. Maybe it's the winglets, maybe not.
Foamaroo has same style winglets as the ZII though, so I'm curious
to see what results you get when you put them on the X8.

ian
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 03:56 PM
AP-stick
ggtronic's Avatar
Montreal
Joined Nov 2005
1,627 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
What's proven by posting a video flying in zero wind conditions?
It happens in the same bumpy air that makes most other planes roll.
I've seen a bunch of yaw wobbly ZII videos, and have seen several ZII
owners who complain of it. just hold your finger in the middle of the screen.
Can see that it's fine until it hits a little turbulence, then yaw waggles
several times before stabilizing again. I'm curious
to see what results you get when you put them on the X8. ian
i dont see much yaw problem in this video ian ? for most "wide" video audience , roll bump will mostly lead to complain ... and yes, roll stability is hard to achieve for any light plane...but X8 is not light...

i dont have Z2 either...but my polaris is way more stable than my X8
in the same "environement"...i'm just trying to fine tune the X8 for easy
APM2 mission and need to know if i will need to add camera roll stabilisation
for Orthophoto jobs...

Klique : what is the Z2 optimal speed (efficiency) ? i'm pretty shure its more
than 55kmh ?

X8 optimal speed (power efficiency) is 50-55kmh (30mph)
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 04:14 PM
Mum is the word!
Joined Jun 2003
6,781 Posts
Hi , I see a good window between 40 and 80 mph , the yaw will really smooth out at 45 and up , If you are doing much over 80 to 90 mph you need to build it to help with body fredom flutter.
This is the ocilation from the tips to the center that happens at higher speeds over 90 or so.

This is the reason I say that comparing these is just not a good comparison.
I never designed it for loitering at 30 mph.

The ZII was not originally kited for speeds over 90 mph m but can do it with ease with a few mods.
Efficiency wise its all how you set it up , it loves 45 to 65 mph and it can be very smooth and efficient if done rite.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ggtronic View Post
i dont see much yaw problem in this video ian ? for most "wide" video audience , roll bump will mostly lead to complain ... and yes, roll stability is hard to achieve for any light plane...but X8 is not light...

i dont have Z2 either...but my polaris is way more stable than my X8
in the same "environement"...i'm just trying to fine tune the X8 for easy
APM2 mission and need to know if i will need to add camera roll stabilisation
for Orthophoto jobs...

Klique : what is the Z2 optimal speed (efficiency) ? i'm pretty shure its more
than 55kmh ?

X8 optimal speed (power efficiency) is 50-55kmh (30mph)
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 05:07 PM
Look out! The lever!
bobthenuke's Avatar
United States, AZ, Peoria
Joined Feb 2005
2,601 Posts
Hey, Chris!

I had to figure you were monitoring this thread at some time. :-) I picked the X-8 from a guy who started it and didn't do the best job IMHO< but it was something I wanted to try. As you've read, I have no problems at all with the ZII and love it...the only problem I had was the first flight where the CG was a bit too far back but moving it up resulted in a great flying, stable, platform.

It's my opinion that unless one has an airframe and setup with initially horrible characteristics, a decent pilot/builder can get the most out of it based on it's performance window. I've found very few planes that just can't be flown and enjoyed as long as they're flown within the parameters and application they're designed for. It's certainly not possible to expect a stable camera platform on poorly trimmed Piper Cub compared to a full size Goldberg Valkyrie, calm weather or not, if you know what I mean.

Haven't flown this one yet (until tomorrow AM at Coyote Basin) but if it flies half as well as the ZII I'll be quite happy. Someone commented negatively on the ZII foam...can't imagine what they were talking about. Oh well.... As usual, typically classy and professional of you not to slam the X-8, even though sold by a competitor.

best regards,

-bob
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Old Jul 27, 2012, 09:33 PM
Registered User
Australia, WA, Perth
Joined Jul 2012
3 Posts
Hey guys fairly new to fourms so hopefully im in the right place Im waiting on my x8 to arrive for fpv use looking for long distance and endurance,I've done a traxxas summit with fly cam and v-eyes but I don't think it's going to cut it for the x8 any ideas thoughts would be gr8 I got about 3-4k to spend cheers also looking for a good tracking system and a yaggi combo thanx
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