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Old Jul 17, 2012, 08:21 PM
Team Park Pilot - Airborne
OzparkPilot's Avatar
Australia, NSW, Sydney
Joined Nov 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
I disagree.
With a flying wing, too much elevator throw will make a bad situation worse.
The only reason you'd purposely want too much elevator throw is if you want
to induce a flat spin at will.


ian
I second this and see this far to often ! In High Apha flight max throws are at home... in anything else... probebly not !
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Old Jul 17, 2012, 11:57 PM
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Lakewood, Colorado
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Added Kevlar reinforcement to the nose. All Kevlar cut on the bias (45 degrees) which makes
it easier to wrap around compound curves, stuck down with dusting of Super77 spray adhesive
and then finished with thin CA (rubbing it down with piece of tape over fingers). No accelerator
necessary, but do ventilate well if using this method.

I use thin CA because it bonds to EPO well, it wicks into Kevlar better than all but the thinnest
finishing epoxy, and it's fast. Where there are frayed edges of the cloth, I sand them smooth
and apply a little more CA to finish the surface.

Always work back to front with overlap so that you don't have any cloth edges facing forward.

ian
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 12:13 AM
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United States, GA, Buford
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Are you going to open up the holes in front?
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 12:18 AM
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Lakewood, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boredom.is.me View Post
Are you going to open up the holes in front?
Yes, just did that. I slit em down the center and folded the Kevlar back into the holes and
glued it down, which keeps the intakes smooth and strong.

I turned the nose of my first X8 into a jigsaw puzzle so many times, that I decided some reinforcement
here would be a good idea. It might come back to bite me if the stress is transferred to other
areas that didn't break before, but it'll still be useful for standard rough landings.

ian
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 12:25 AM
Team Park Pilot - Airborne
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Australia, NSW, Sydney
Joined Nov 2006
4,471 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
Added Kevlar reinforcement to the nose. All Kevlar cut on the bias (45 degrees) which makes
it easier to wrap around compound curves, stuck down with dusting of Super77 spray adhesive
and then finished with thin CA (rubbing it down with piece of tape over fingers). No accelerator
necessary, but do ventilate well if using this method.

I use thin CA because it bonds to EPO well, it wicks into Kevlar better than all but the thinnest
finishing epoxy, and it's fast. Where there are frayed edges of the cloth, I sand them smooth
and apply a little more CA to finish the surface.

Always work back to front with overlap so that you don't have any cloth edges facing forward.

ian
Great work Ian - So this is Number 2 ? First one ready for some wall time ? I was thinking about simply glassing the bottom and nose oin a similar fashion to you. I am pretty new to working with composites ( apart from helping my dad build his 60% FW-190 as a little kid ) so how would I use Kevlar ? Can I buy it in sheets or is it a wet layout type construction ? Thx Ian... G
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 12:42 AM
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First X8 is still going strong. It's just a bit beat up. Wanted a RTF spare.

Kevlar works like glass (dry cloth) but it's slipperier and you need a really thin epoxy (or thin CA)
to wick into the fibers, otherwise it can delam quite easily. It's more flexible, and less
brittle than glass. It's very hard to tear which is why a lot of composite planes use
it on the fuselage. I use the 1.7oz cloth from here. http://www.acpsales.com/OnlineStore.php?cat=4850
As you can see, it's not cheap, which is why I use it for reinforcement rather than trying to
cover whole fuse/wing etc..

BTW, it's also very hard to cut clean. The trick is to take a cheap pair of scissors and file straight
across the edges at a 90 degree angle (or use a coarse grinder). With roughened edges, even
the cheapest scissors will cut Kevlar (or glass, or carbon) cloth, like butter.

ian
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 01:52 AM
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I have some kevlar used to normally reinforce ARMOX steel plate in ballistic shielding. I wonder if that would work as well? It seems very slippery almost like it's little greasy in texture although it's completely dry.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 01:57 AM
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These guys have the best rates I have seen for all composite destined cloths.
http://www.solarcomposites.com/compo...itearamid.html
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 02:00 AM
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It might work. Sounds like it might be pretty thick stuff though.

ian
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 02:04 AM
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Ya, but I figured it would still be helpful to share.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 02:09 AM
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Lakewood, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boredom.is.me View Post
These guys have the best rates I have seen for all composite destined cloths.
http://www.solarcomposites.com/compo...itearamid.html
Very confusing hacked together site, but looks like their 5oz Kevlar cloth is about $20/yd.
That's a good price but it's also pretty thick cloth.
Ignore the Kevlar veil. It's a non-woven mat.

ian
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 02:11 AM
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I'm aware of the veils. My question is: where is the advantage in a kevlar veil? I can say ok to CF or FG, but kevlar doesn't "behave" the same.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 02:30 AM
Team Park Pilot - Airborne
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Australia, NSW, Sydney
Joined Nov 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Daemon View Post
First X8 is still going strong. It's just a bit beat up. Wanted a RTF spare.

Kevlar works like glass (dry cloth) but it's slipperier and you need a really thin epoxy (or thin CA)
to wick into the fibers, otherwise it can delam quite easily. It's more flexible, and less
brittle than glass. It's very hard to tear which is why a lot of composite planes use
it on the fuselage. I use the 1.7oz cloth from here. http://www.acpsales.com/OnlineStore.php?cat=4850
As you can see, it's not cheap, which is why I use it for reinforcement rather than trying to
cover whole fuse/wing etc..

BTW, it's also very hard to cut clean. The trick is to take a cheap pair of scissors and file straight
across the edges at a 90 degree angle (or use a coarse grinder). With roughened edges, even
the cheapest scissors will cut Kevlar (or glass, or carbon) cloth, like butter.

ian

So this tells me you love your 8 so much you need spare, X8`s so to speak

I have some Raw carbon fibre tape that I use to reimformce my motor boxes on some of my 5 KW electric 30-35%ers.. works great ! its rough however so no issues internally ( motor box etc ) but not suitable for a smooth external type surface. Will look into your info... My X8 is currently on a very LR flight... from china to Sydney !
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 02:39 AM
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Lakewood, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boredom.is.me View Post
I'm aware of the veils. My question is: where is the advantage in a kevlar veil? I can say ok to CF or FG, but kevlar doesn't "behave" the same.
If you're aware of veils then why ask me what the advantage is? There is none versus cloth.
It's useful for abrasion and impact resistance particularly when paired with other composites
but doesn't provide any real strength.
FG is strong in compression and potentially brittle. CF is strongest in tension, and most
rigid per unit mass, but also potentially brittle. Kevlar is neither rigid in compression or tension
but very strong and flexible, abrasion resistant, and not brittle. They don't make
bullet proof vests out of FG or CF.

ian
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 03:06 AM
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Lakewood, Colorado
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Quote:
Originally Posted by G-Forced View Post
So this tells me you love your 8 so much you need spare, X8`s so to speak
I've actually done this with several of my FPV planes over the years. 2 EZGs, 2 Funjets, 2 EZ*,
2 Skywalkers, 2 X8's.. etc.

ian
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