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Old Mar 16, 2012, 06:54 AM
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United States, CA, Chico
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So, where should I start as far as retracts go? If one of you were to put retracts on your X8, which set would you choose?

I've never done retracts and I don't have an X8, but looking at the geometry of the plane in pictures, it looks like I'll want a recessed nose wheel and a pair of main retracts at the back of the wing roots... so can someone that has an X8 and can look at the plane in person, tell me how they would install retracts?

Where would they be installed, how would they be reinforced, and what particular set of retracts would be used?

Then again, in the antenna tracking video posted above, he landed on some really rough ground! Will that damage the plane?
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 07:52 AM
Outta Sight
Australia, WA, Joondalup
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I agree with Ian, you are overthinking it now.
Step 1, get a plane, and for an X8 that's not easy at the moment.
Fly it, get to know it, then decide what and you are going to do.
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 11:13 AM
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I didn't refer to using glider retracts. I just suggested putting embedded nonretractable wheels.

If you are worried so much, just fiberglass the bottom. Make a skid plate.
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 12:26 PM
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my new WING X8 Video

Hello

my new wing x8 video:

WING X8 - BEV RC - NURI - Nurflügler - FPV (5 min 20 sec)
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 01:08 PM
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Didcot, UK, OX11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RolandS888 View Post
Angelos, what prop size are you running on that?
As previously mentioned the motor is an A3732 KV480 running from 6S with 80A Mystery ESC. The prop is Aeronaut 14x10.

I tested the combo with the Watt meter today. It gives 1300-1350W continuous with fully charged packs and the current was around 62A.

The motor got a bit hot after a 60sec full throttle run. It felt almost uncomfortable to hold but unfortunately I didn't have my IR gun with me to take a reading. My gut feeling is that the motor is probably slightly overloaded as I was expecting around 1100-1200W peak power from the 6S setup.

Nevertheless, I am very pleased with the power system. For now I will avoid using full throttle for long time (during my vertical climbs) and I will test one step smaller prop later on.

EDIT: On a second thought, the above test was done with the plane static. When the plane is moving the prop should be less loaded and the power could drop to the desired 1200W. FPVing it next week and will check the telemetry data.

-Angelos
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Last edited by Angelos; Mar 16, 2012 at 01:56 PM.
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 03:18 PM
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United States, CA, Chico
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boredom.is.me View Post
I didn't refer to using glider retracts. I just suggested putting embedded nonretractable wheels.

If you are worried so much, just fiberglass the bottom. Make a skid plate.
Well, a large part of what I wanted to do with retracts was make it capable of doing an ROG takeoff.
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 03:32 PM
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I think it may be possible to do retracts on the X8 and someone likely will pull it off, but I don't
think it'll ever be a good idea. Adds too much weight and complexity for virtually zero benefit.
Keep in mind, even with landing gear, you'd have issues with prop clearance as the
plane rotates for takeoff.

ian
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 03:42 PM
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Illinois, USA
Joined Aug 2009
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I with Ian, too much weight, Weight is much better spent on batteries. Maybe a drag chute for landing in small areas. Looks like a bungee or hand toss would easily get you airborne.
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 05:21 PM
hmph!
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United States, UT, Logan
Joined Dec 2008
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Been toying with retracts too. No good anywhere but paved airstrip. I don't like belly landing on pavement. Pavement grinds stuff off really fast. I've even ground through steel tow hooks in two landings on asphalt. Electric no-servo retracts are simple and easy to cut in. Extra weight could be an issue if you're already heavy. Without retract doors, the drag is another loss. Retracts really only make sense if the plane is too big to launch any other way.

I've started adding furniture slider pads to the vulnerable areas. Very light, replaceable, and slide very well.
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 05:52 PM
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Ok, I guess retracts are out. The main thing that has me convinced here is the prop clearance thing. It's just too complex.

Part of my grant proposal draft is increasing autolanding accuracy and implementing ROG takeoff in ardupilot (currently it does not exist, as it will require code for ground steering control and a transition to normal flight), so really my preference is for something that does have landing gear, but I also want great endurance and range, so I was really hoping to go for retracts for a cleaner airframe.

I can always just cut that part out of the proposal. Hand-launch and belly land is more versatile anyway.
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 06:03 PM
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So funny thing happened today. I am doing a research paper for college and was looking in the career of UAV's, the college by where I live happeneds to have a UAV program. NWM (north western Michigan) and I called the head guy and was talking to him about the UAV's and he said that they are waiting for the FAA rules to come out in 2013 before they will have a career in UAV's. While talking to him I couldn't help but ask what they use for the software and AutoPilot, they said they use the ArduPilot and the xbee uplink. I was funny thinking how thay are using a system that my friend uses as I use DragonOSD. But they only fly with 2.4 so my range is far superior with 433 . I had told him that I was waiting for a new plane, the X8 and he said "o yeah. We saw those and have placed an order" and so I asked if they joined the waiting club and he laughed and said yes. And hope to have it soon, to start testing. I was also invited to spend a day with them and see what the UAV thing is like. I can't help but want to bring my X8 when it is all finished and fly circles around them

It's weird to think a college has a UAV program that uses the same stuff I have. (boy won't that class be easy to pass )

Just thought I'd share my story

One last note. They said that there will be a requirement to have a UAV license to fly these. They just didn't know what the specs will be on size and such.

Crazy1
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 06:20 PM
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United States, TX, Mansfield
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jschall View Post
Ok, I guess retracts are out. The main thing that has me convinced here is the prop clearance thing. It's just too complex.

Part of my grant proposal draft is increasing autolanding accuracy and implementing ROG takeoff in ardupilot (currently it does not exist, as it will require code for ground steering control and a transition to normal flight), so really my preference is for something that does have landing gear, but I also want great endurance and range, so I was really hoping to go for retracts for a cleaner airframe.

I can always just cut that part out of the proposal. Hand-launch and belly land is more versatile anyway.

Sorry if this suggestion is nonsense, since I have never held an X8 in my hands, but it seems like you could EASILY build some sort of tall, removable landing gear which would allow you to do your ROG experiments, etc., but can be removed for flying efficiency when needed/desired.

I really think this is the best/simplest solution for your needs unless you just want the "cool factor" of having retracts [and there is nothing AT ALL wrong with that as long as you just admit it ]
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 06:36 PM
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Originally Posted by CTvxl View Post
Sorry if this suggestion is nonsense, since I have never held an X8 in my hands, but it seems like you could EASILY build some sort of tall, removable landing gear which would allow you to do your ROG experiments, etc., but can be removed for flying efficiency when needed/desired.

I really think this is the best/simplest solution for your needs unless you just want the "cool factor" of having retracts [and there is nothing AT ALL wrong with that as long as you just admit it ]
Oh, I have no problem admitting that.
The problem is the prop clearance on rotate, unless the retracts somehow extended back near the prop... but they still need to be probably 6" tall for a 14" prop, and that's a pretty big lever for some foam to hold on to. So I don't think it's realistic.
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 09:20 PM
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United States, VA, Stafford
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jschall View Post
Oh, I have no problem admitting that.
The problem is the prop clearance on rotate, unless the retracts somehow extended back near the prop... but they still need to be probably 6" tall for a 14" prop, and that's a pretty big lever for some foam to hold on to. So I don't think it's realistic.
are you able to change your requirements from land based to water based? would your customer allow that? Autonomous landing/takeoff would be so much easier from a lake/river or small body of water.

The second thought I had was landing on a cushion of air like a hover craft (I used to have an RC hovercraft that worked really well). You wouldn't want it flapping around under the bird in flight so reverse the fans to suck the "bag" up into its fuse.
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Old Mar 16, 2012, 09:25 PM
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Originally Posted by yellowstingray View Post
The second thought I had was landing on a cushion of air like a hover craft (I used to have an RC hovercraft that worked really well). You wouldn't want it flapping around under the bird in flight so reverse the fans to suck the "bag" up into its fuse.
It's been discussed before. This idea is completely impractical. You might as well just put real retracts if you dare think about a skirt.

Why:
- even more weight than retracts because you have a lot more "wheel" and you have the lift fan
- more energy consumed due to the increase weight and drag
- too much drag to be any type of efficient
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