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Old Dec 12, 2011, 01:44 AM
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Help!
Glow Fuel Proofing Latex Paint.

Hi Guys, I am an "old Newbie" (old dog trying to learn new tricks).

Despite the exhortations from colleagues to abandon glow in favour of gas, I still love my glow motors even though I have a few gas motors now.

I am excited by Ray Vallaincourt's excellent treatise on painting with latex & would like to try a glow plane finished this way. I never go higher than 15% Nitro in castor based fuel.

In reading the many excellent threads on the Forums on this & related subjects, I am not sure that I have heard a firm recommendation that was not contested or denied by other opinions----either that or I stupidly missed or miss read one. SO...............

Gentlemen:- What can I use over the top of waterbased latex paint to fuelproof my plane PERMANENTLY against fuel & exhaust residue from 15% Nitro fuelled glow engine?????

Thanks for your help!!!!
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Old Dec 12, 2011, 10:08 AM
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At Walmart.... look for a Minnwax product called Helmsman Indoor/Outdoor Spar Urathane.

Of course, normal procedure of letting the paint dry well for a week or so prior to the protective coat is good advice.
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Old Dec 12, 2011, 11:30 AM
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Glow Fuel Proofing Latex Paint

Quote:
Originally Posted by AA5BY View Post
At Walmart.... look for a Minnwax product called Helmsman Indoor/Outdoor Spar Urathane.

Of course, normal procedure of letting the paint dry well for a week or so prior to the protective coat is good advice.
Thanks AA5BY !!! I'll see if we can get this stuff up here in Canada (don't see why not).

Assume you have had success with this product,,,question..... "over what time period have you had this product on a particular plane?? & did you notice any yellowing or deterioration with time/sun????

Thanks again!
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Old Dec 12, 2011, 01:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dterer1 View Post
Thanks AA5BY !!! I'll see if we can get this stuff up here in Canada (don't see why not).

Assume you have had success with this product,,,question..... "over what time period have you had this product on a particular plane?? & did you notice any yellowing or deterioration with time/sun????

Thanks again!
I've had it over the paint on cowls for many years and it holds up very well. As to yellowing, that is a hard call for me as I'm pretty bad color blind but I'm thinking it does yellow some. I've not put it on a whole model.

I have used Top Flight's Luster Kote on the whole model with success so it might be safer about not yellowing.
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Old Dec 13, 2011, 08:12 AM
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Lustrekote would probably eat the latex, though.

Except epoxy and lacquer, most clear paints will yellow. Waterborne clears, such as Minwax Polycycrylic do not yellow, but have not proven to be fuel proof.

Warbirdcolors sells a waterborne clear, that is fuel prood and does not yellow, but it only comes in a flat finish.

Automotive clears do not yellow, either. But again, I believe that they would attack latex.

To me, I'd go with something other than latex, if I was going to go with a glo powered model.

I manufactured latex paint for over 30 years. I never once painted a model with it.
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Old Dec 13, 2011, 11:49 AM
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I've used the Vaillencourt latex instructions on a few planes now with very good results. The advantages, I think, outweigh the disadvantages. The achilles heel is the fuelproofing. This is my experience so far. I sprayed Nelson's Clear Coat over latex on a 1/5th scale Waco with good results, but it didn't spray very well here in very dry Utah. Others may have better results, and it was pricey. I sprayed another 1/5th scale Waco with Klass Kote clear over latex, also with very good results. It sprays better IMHO than Nelson's, but is even more expensive. Then, in an effort to try something affordable, I sprayed latex on my 1/6th scale Heinkel 51, sprayed a clear coat of Minwax polycrylic after the latex dried, and then fuelproofed with Lustercote. The Polycrylic acted like a barrier to keep the Lustercote from eating the latex, which it will do. I'm happy with the results on the Heinkel, but the Klass Kote is the better finish if cost is no object, IMHO. Hope this helps.
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Old Dec 13, 2011, 12:03 PM
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Why paint with latex?

I think Tom has a good point. 30 years in the paint industry and he has never used latex on a plane. No offense Tom, you're an excellent builder Why, I could even see latex on your current build! The thought of using latex paint on a model airplane seems absurd, but after reading Roy Vaillencourt's write-up I decided to try it. The latex is thinned with windshield washer fluid, so it goes a long way. A $10 quart would easily paint 5 large planes. You can buy small sample containers (for trim)for about $3 at Home Depot-any color you want! They can mix custom colors to match. It dries fast. It's easy to spray. Water clean up. No smell. What's not to like!
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Old Dec 13, 2011, 06:16 PM
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One year at Toledo, I talked to Roy extensively about using latex.

To me, it comes down to this. I do not feel that latex provides a realistic finish for our models. The fact that it needs to be fuel proofed adds to my discontent.

I am not a fan of clear coat. Besides adding weight, how often do you see a clear coated full size airplane?

A full size airplane has gloss differentiations, in that oil, grime, etc, is not the same as the gloss of the paint job. The no steps, etc, may have a different gloss, too. All this is extinguished if a clear coat is applied.

Latex is difficult to weather. Steel wool, which is my preferred method, does not work well on latex.

Nelsons, and Warbirdcolors, is not latex, and does accept the use of steel wool. I prefer these products to latex.

If I want to go the inexpensive route, I go with Rustoleum.
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Old Dec 15, 2011, 01:00 PM
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Glow Fuel Proofing Latex Paint

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Originally Posted by TomCrump View Post
One year at Toledo, I talked to Roy extensively about using latex.

To me, it comes down to this. I do not feel that latex provides a realistic finish for our models. The fact that it needs to be fuel proofed adds to my discontent.

I am not a fan of clear coat. Besides adding weight, how often do you see a clear coated full size airplane?

A full size airplane has gloss differentiations, in that oil, grime, etc, is not the same as the gloss of the paint job. The no steps, etc, may have a different gloss, too. All this is extinguished if a clear coat is applied.

Latex is difficult to weather. Steel wool, which is my preferred method, does not work well on latex.

Nelsons, and Warbirdcolors, is not latex, and does accept the use of steel wool. I prefer these products to latex.

If I want to go the inexpensive route, I go with Rustoleum.

GENTLEMEN: Thank you for you valuable thoughts & opinions. I think the various comments show that using latex paint in glow applications, is a tough road-----it CAN be done with:-
1)Warbirdcolours clear coat FLAT finish.
2)Minwax Polyacrylic then Lustrecote.
3)Expensive epoxies etc.

There does not, as I suspected, appear to be a simple cheap silver bullet. I think I'll keep the Vaillencourt latex approach for gas applications & use Century 21 Fabric or Monocote Films for Glow planes.
Thanks again for your help.
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Old Dec 15, 2011, 01:40 PM
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Just because there are difficulties, don't shy awat from painting glow models.

Both Nelsons and Warbird Colors, are fuel proof water borne paints. Both look good, and aren't difficult to spray.

For an inexpensive, fuel resistant, paint job, try a quart can of Rustoleum, and add an automotive hardener. While it isn't water based, it is relatively inexpensive. I can paint a quarter scale model for around $60.00, using two colors.

Below are models painted in these, three, suggestions.
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Old Dec 15, 2011, 04:13 PM
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Tom,
Thanks for your words. I must say your 3 planes all look mighty fine pieces of work!!!

I have read about Nelson & Warbird Colours & they seem both to have excellent products, if a little pricey for big planes--your experience confirms.

If I am hesitant, it's because I haven't learnt to spray yet & the thought of a 2 part epoxy in a spraygun scares me to death! I am planning to get a gun & will cut my teeth spraying latex on a 104 in Roadrunner floatplane (50cc gas) which is just getting covered in Super Coverite.

I would like to hear a bit more detail on your Rustoleum recipe---looks good ----& not too expensive for sports type planes.

Thanks again Tom.
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Old Dec 15, 2011, 05:41 PM
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Rustoleum quarts run around $9.00 a quart. A gallon of thinner (mineral spirits) is about $18.00. It's used to thin the paint, and to clean the gun. The automotive hardener, runs at $12.00 per each quart of Rustoleum. 1 can is added, per quart.

It's very easy to spray. I thin it about 1:1, or the viscosity of milk.

I use a production quality HVLP spray gun, but less expensive models will work, too.

The hardener can be purchased at autimotive paint suppliers.

Don't be afraid to paint. You can practice on a cardboard box. I'm still learning as I go, but you can't match the sense of satisfaction felt by doing it yourself.
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Old Dec 15, 2011, 08:08 PM
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... on the subject of latex and glow fuel

Hope you don't mind me joining in, wanted to share my experience of latex paint and the Nelson's clear coat as well as the use of LustreKote. I have done a fair mount of testing with both these products from the point of fuel proofing latex for glow fuels. I can say with first had knowledge that you can use LustreKote over latex with superb results that will last successfully under torturous usage. After building my field tote I finished it with Wally World latex and clear coated it with Lustrekote. I expected to find the area where the fuel container is mounted to the box and glow fuel is exposed to the surface, would over time suffer. Going into three years it has worked out perfectly with no evidence of deterioration. Excellent combination of finishes.

As for the Nelson's, since the primary reason for the latex finish was ease of use and multitudes of color variations, I wanted a finish that would also be easily repairable (in case I let someone else be at the controls of my bird you understand) and elected that having a water based finish throughout might be better since I estimated a repair with the Lustrekote may be more challenging. I made a test of a weakened mixture of the Nelson's clear flat w/ Nelson's Cross-linker (a fuel proofing additive for Nelson water based paint) on an anodized aluminum test strip. I used the anodized aluminum for two reasons, one because I could avoid reaction of other material in the test, and two because I wanted to know how well it would bond to the non-porous surface. The results were better than expected. I painted three areas approx 6 inches in length and two inches in width, and soaked the panted surfaces with glow fuel for a week, everyday adding a fresh layer of glow fuel.

The Nelson clear coat never softened which sold me on the product. Additionally, after the testing, I scraped and sanded at the painted surface checking for durability. I found that on the anodized surface the clear coat could be removed with effort and it would release from the aluminum as though it were adhesive tape, with a slight resistance. When peeled off, it felt similar to onion paper. My conclusion was I will use it at every opportunity, but have not at this time applied it to actual finishing. I used a badger air brush for the applications on all my painting.

In the past I have painted my aircraft with epoxy paints, automotive lacquer with plasticizer, and with hobby enamel and have been pleased with each method. Having had this new experience with latex as an option and ease of use, I think the durability of latex is just as outstanding and doubt I ever need to use anything else in the future. It dries lighter and is $$$'s less expensive. Did I mention I used latex primer on the field tote. Hope this helps those considering latex with glow fuel.

Sorry it's so lengthy, Monroe
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Old Dec 15, 2011, 08:36 PM
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an addtional thought, minwax

On my previous post, wanted to include I followed instructions for cure time of the latex, very important part of the process.

Because I wanted to move into the latex painting arena and have read many different methods, I decided to do my own glow fuel proof testing and this included testing minwax for durability by application. I used two different minwax products, Diamond, and another I don't currently recall, both water based.

I applied the minwax to the bottom section of an everyday flyer covered with Monokote. I sprayed the test area where the fuel was most likely to be in contact, on the belly of the low-winger where there is oil residue seems to collect. Over a period of several days/flights the minwax softened and began releasing from the Monokote. I understand this is an extreme test for durability but has shown decidedly poor results with the product for fuel proofing.

I didn't wipe down after every flight, only at the end of the days flying. I wanted the worst case scenario. I may use minwax for glassing but I don't recommend using it as a glow fuel proof system.
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Old Dec 16, 2011, 01:29 AM
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Tom,
Thanks again for sharing your experiences. I like the sounds of the Rustoleum method. I kinda like KISS methods, they are usually less prone to failing than complex ones. As I said I am going to get a spray gun, HVLP Devillbiss likely. & will try this method for a glow bird.
I have actually used TREMCLAD paints on glow planes & floats (these always take a beating with exhaust gunk, & had results----but not a fair long term test.
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