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Old Mar 09, 2012, 03:01 AM
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Mike,
Will adding a couple of rails along the top edges pull them straight? If not, it may be a case of cutting a duplicate cockpit floor, but with a cockpit cut out of the middle. Either way, the 1/64 ply surround will cover the mod.
Turning round one of the sides on the parts sheet is simple enough. What's the betting the next one warps in a sort of S shape?

Pete
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Old Mar 09, 2012, 06:06 PM
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I'd bet that it will. Or an S one way and C the other way.

I've stopped trying to figure out if it will warp or not.

And, you can straighten it. A bit of water spray, support the ends, and put a weight in the middle (don't soak it as I don't know if the glue is exterior grade).
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Old Mar 10, 2012, 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by portablevcb View Post
I'd bet that it will. Or an S one way and C the other way.

I've stopped trying to figure out if it will warp or not.

And, you can straighten it. A bit of water spray, support the ends, and put a weight in the middle (don't soak it as I don't know if the glue is exterior grade).
Thanks for the tip Charlie, I'll have to remember that next time I encounter the problem. I'll go ahead and give it a spritz then see if I can't straighten it out with some clamps and the addition of rails as Pete has suggested.

Mike
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Old Mar 11, 2012, 02:37 PM
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Pete,
I have another question in regards to the color/look of things. What color should the landing gear fairings be? What color should the bare wire be? If the fairings are to be natural then I would need to box in the wires completely but if they will be painted then I can use the totthpick groove method you have suggested on the plans. Also, only the most foremost and aftmost struts are wooden on the no. 3 so I'm wondering if that might actually be how the no. 5 was since their undercarriages look to be the same. I have the same questions about the rigging pylon, what color is it? The plans show it being faired with wood as well but the no. 3 pylon is of round tubing. I guess my question is, do you care if I copy the no. 3 when it comes to these details or should I stick with Walt Mooney's rendition? I sure wish we had a picture of this thing. I'm still wondering if Mooney had a true 3-view or if he simply added these details because he thought they should be there.

Mike
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Old Mar 11, 2012, 06:20 PM
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Mike,
How much detail, and precisely what detail, you add is entirely up to you mate. If you're happy to copy the N3 go ahead and do so. There's an awful lot of guesswork involved with this model, it's so poorly documented.
My inclination is that much of the struttery, especially the pylon, would be streamline tube. However, the u/c legs could just as easily have been wood. Stained wood with black metal brackets is how I have done it in the past.

Pete
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Old Mar 17, 2012, 12:10 AM
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I faired the landing gear wire with 1/16" balsa. Since I don't plan on painting this model I enclosed the wires and will stain the wood to match the bamboo skids(if I can) before doping. To finish off the legs at the skids I kept with the look of the lashing and wrapped them in thread followed by thin CA. I decided to leave the center leg unfaired because I think it looks better and goes along with the combination of wood and tubing struts Chiribiri used on his planes (at least the ones I have pictures of).
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Old Mar 17, 2012, 02:27 AM
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Looking REALLY sweet Mike. Can't wait to see her at the field this summer.
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 01:59 PM
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Looking REALLY sweet Mike. Can't wait to see her at the field this summer.
Me neither Matt, the vision in my head of it lifting off always gives me incentive to keep plugging away when I encounter methods to the build I'm unfamiliar with. Speaking of those....

Pete,
On the pylon you use a pulley for the warp cable but the pictures of the no. 3 show an idler cable (not sure what to call it) that allows the top cable to swing back and forth as the wings warp. I drew up the geometry of this system and it would appear that the wing would warp about the same distance as the length of this "idler cable". Have you had any experience or see anything wrong with this arrangement?

Mike
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 06:41 PM
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The pulley was my idea because it looked the best option. On the Ponnier, I just ran the cables through a wire loop and that worked fine. There are going to be losses whichever method you use, but the pulley just seemed the most free running - and the best looking option.

Pete
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Old Mar 24, 2012, 02:08 AM
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To straighten out the concave side I wet the ply then clamped it between two pieces of wood as shown below. I also added basswood rails to help straighten out the top side edges. Prior to lashing the pylon wires I cut a notch where the wire sits so I won't have the clearance issue I had on the bottom when I attach the cockpit surround. After lashing and soldering the pylon on, I blacked out the cockpit with paint then cut and glued the 1/64 ply surround on. Notice the rigging attachment loop/hook at the top of the pylon, the rigging ends will slip on and off this loop to make the wings detachable per Pete's design.

Pete,
I think the notches in the tops of the front and rear cockpit panels is the way to go. If you make them deep enough to accomodate the wire and the lashing then all four cockpit panels would be built with their top edges flush. Plus this gives the cockpit surround something to sit on spanwise without having to add any wood.

Mike
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Old Mar 24, 2012, 01:44 PM
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Balsa dowels

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Originally Posted by crawlspace View Post
In response to Pete's solicitation for prototype builds I have decided to take on his 71" span Chiribiri. While waiting for the cut parts from Charlie I have been perusing the plans and trying to find documentation on this plane in preparation for the build. What I have found is not much, not even a single photograph, so I am starting the thread to hopefully get some information on what it actually looked like (color, markings, rigging details, etc.). A 3-view would be great but I may be asking too much.

My other reason for starting the thread is to find a source for some of the building material I will need. Wing construction calls for spruce spars and trailing edge with a 1/4" balsa dowel for the leading edge. Again I am struggling to find these items. Can basswood be used in place of spruce, or should I be looking at hardwood?

Thanks in advance to anyone that can help me out,

Mike
If you're still looking for balsa dowels try these guys.

http://www.specializedbalsa.com/dowels.php

Gary
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Old Apr 10, 2012, 02:00 AM
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Gary,
Thanks for the dowel link. I've already gone ahead without them on this one but I'm sure I'll be needing them again down the road.

I've finally managed to get my hands on some tooling foil for the nose, I'm hoping that will do the trick so i can start working on those louvres.
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Old Apr 10, 2012, 03:05 AM
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Assembly of the empennage is pretty basic. The horizontal stab sits on the fuse with a rigging post up through it while the rudder is hinged to the rear of the tailpost. The stab piece has a precut hole in it while the fuse hole is drilled to fit. I filled the area under the balsa around the hole with 1/8" ply prior to drilling it out. The rigging post is made from a piece of 1/4" dia dowel chucked up in a drill press and shaped with sandpaper. The rudder hinge is made of brass tubing that will be glued into the rudder, this accepts a piece of bent music wire that is glued into the tailpost making a gate style hinge.
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Old Apr 10, 2012, 09:02 AM
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If THAT rudder comes loose you've got real problems. Probably take the rear fuselage with it.

Looking very good mate but I'm sure we'd all like some naked model shots before you start hiding it under covering. You can't have a build without naked model shots.

Pete
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Old Apr 11, 2012, 02:06 AM
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Wing rigging attachment points are made from aluminum tubing large enough to fit a 4-40 screw and some bits of 1/8" balsa. Maybe Pete could be coerced into adding those bits to one of the rib sheets for the next guy. I used Welder adhesive for the aluminum to wood because that stuff sticks to pretty much anything but I may reinforce them with some cloth and epoxy for good measure.

While test fitting all the parts I realized I put the exit point for the rudder control line too far forward so a little surgery was in order to correct that. I was also once again reminded to pay closer attention to removing warp in parts prior to assemby as the wing roots aren't quite lying flush to the fuselage. It's not a hard fix and it's primarily cosmetic but it could have been avoided with some forethought on my part.
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