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Old Jul 18, 2012, 07:07 PM
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Cape Coral, FL
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Originally Posted by batfire View Post
HI Derek

Wow you are really putting me on the spot. I really don't trust any quad or other multicopter over water. Your right it would be a total loss.......
Batfire,

I truly do not intend to put anybody on the spot. Just looking for a fair and honest opinion from somebody knee deep in the real thing. Thank you!!! That's what I needed to know.

I mainly want to know the real cost of taking my camera up with a realistic reliability rate. I can spend more, I just don't want to if I don't have to.

I will look into your other suggestions - thank you. I think it's only fair to Wow to keep this thread on the merits (or de-merits as it may be) of the X830.

I see Wow offers the X830-D with DJI Naza flight controller for $100 more. I am only just learning the various capabilities of the controllers. I mostly need proven performance to, at least statistically, minimize the chance of dunking my rig.

1) Here is my basic need:
Fly around with a fixed camera mount (the GH2) and snap photos as best I can with only Line of Sight flying. Land the bird, review the photos, then try again. With photos, I can crop and rotate, of course.
2) Then be able to expand into this:
Fly to a "good spot" with LOS, enter auto hover mode, look at a small monitor to "aim" the camera with a 2 axis gimble. Then snap the photo.
3) Eventually add:
Shoot smooth video with auto stabilized 2 axis gimble.

I really don't know enough to "know" if I will need advanced features like auto return home, waypoint navigation, FPV flying. I don't even know how to write the list!

If I can get good still photos now, with expandability for later, I will be happy as a pig in doo-doo.

Derek
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by DerekB View Post
Batfire,

I truly do not intend to put anybody on the spot. Just looking for a fair and honest opinion from somebody knee deep in the real thing. Thank you!!! That's what I needed to know.

I mainly want to know the real cost of taking my camera up with a realistic reliability rate. I can spend more, I just don't want to if I don't have to.

I will look into your other suggestions - thank you. I think it's only fair to Wow to keep this thread on the merits (or de-merits as it may be) of the X830.

I see Wow offers the X830-D with DJI Naza flight controller for $100 more. I am only just learning the various capabilities of the controllers. I mostly need proven performance to, at least statistically, minimize the chance of dunking my rig.

1) Here is my basic need:
Fly around with a fixed camera mount (the GH2) and snap photos as best I can with only Line of Sight flying. Land the bird, review the photos, then try again. With photos, I can crop and rotate, of course.
2) Then be able to expand into this:
Fly to a "good spot" with LOS, enter auto hover mode, look at a small monitor to "aim" the camera with a 2 axis gimble. Then snap the photo.
3) Eventually add:
Shoot smooth video with auto stabilized 2 axis gimble.

I really don't know enough to "know" if I will need advanced features like auto return home, waypoint navigation, FPV flying. I don't even know how to write the list!

If I can get good still photos now, with expandability for later, I will be happy as a pig in doo-doo.

Derek
HI Derek,

OK letís say you buy the X830. For the setup you will need a few things. I have most of them posted on my blog (click on my username takes you there). If you donít need all the frills yes the Naza and gps should be ok setup. For my money I would spend the little extra and get the WK-M system which if you decide to expand can expand with you. Unfortunately its not offered on the X830 as of yet only the T88. It also can be used on heli. So letís put a list together.

X-830-D Hmmm..... the one they show has no Tx or Rx You might be able to call them and have them put together a package with Tx and Rx and charger. If they will install a radio for you get the Devo 10 with Rx1002 nice radio and I am a spektrum person and this new Devo 10 kicks butt.

Estimate on quad with tx and rx 10 channel. (Believe me you will need extra channels getting in to cameras etc...)
Get the gps upgrade larger battery 5300mah 3s you need at least 3

Now we need skid and camera setup.

You will be getting into a weight issue if you get skids like Jeng, and I have so here is a way around that for weight issues.
Part Number: Turbo Ace Z8 Shock+ALA3CMV2+3xMG-D-9G+TA-X830-41
will give you 3 axis camera mount which will haul your camera. It includes the extended landing skid. But look at my blog and see how I have altered that skid for larger footprint.

This is handy in windy conditions and makes it harder to tip over. I use this skid on all my copters for testing due to the absorption capabilities when the copter feels gravity challenged. Not that I have any bad landings. Understand with the weight and value you wish to carry your testing should be with a sand bag first!!! This weight will require you to do a quick pop off the ground into a ground effect hover. If you just try to ease off ground like you do with heli it will just flip over. The auto-stab trying to balance the load along with the thrust hitting the ground causes this. You get use to it.

Ok lets add it up.
Quad $1100.00
GPS upgrade $169.00
Battery 5300mah 3s $90.00 I would buy 3 min.
Part Number: Turbo Ace Z8 Shock+ALA3CMV2+3xMG-D-9G+TA-X830-41 $369.90

Rough $1730.00

This is a minumum number to get you started. You are most likely looking more at $2200.00 or so for all up RTF which they can do at Wow Hobbies I would think. It will take a little longer to get the quad but it will be all set. Make sure they program your switches for the gimbals and such for gps use.

I would invest in one more item which is a http://www.bladehelis.com/Products/D...ProdId=BLH7500 This you can practice, practice and practice some more on. I have one of these and use my Spektrum Dx6i which if you get one i can pm you the setting for radio. I use this everytime I fly to get a few minutes in before I take up the X830. It also lets me know what to look out for in wind gusts etc....... I modified mine by taking off that stupid cover and I use small cardboard archs in its place to cover board, also less wind resistance.

You will need it.
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 09:29 PM
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x830s with Turbo Ace Z8 Shock+ALA3CMV2+3xMG-D-9G+TA-X830-41

Hey DerekB

Thought i might let you know i have the x830s with this camera mount setup like Batfire is telling you about. I have thankfully had no problems with mine ( knock on monitor glass ) But also like yourself i have been schooled by Bat and Jeng and they dont even know it. These two trully know their stuff. I have learn so much sitting here reading and feel bad that i cant jump in to help but they can. I can at least tell you i love the turbo ace and was about to order the x830d with naza very soon. I have been hesitate with Bat's findings so i will wait a bit longer to see if anyone else has the issues with the wiring and or motors - here is a pic of mine with the extended landing and mount
later
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Old Jul 18, 2012, 10:33 PM
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Hey guys,

I too have an X830. I ordered mine about 3 weeks ago and received it about a week after placing the order.

I went with the X830-D version to get the Naza. This is a fairly impressive quad - good size - good power - good stability. Overall, I am impressed.

I will say, however, if you order the X830-D (Naza) you may want to play with the default gains that WowHobbies sends the unit to you with. My first flight was an interesting exercise. I was descending from about 40 feet up and the quad started oscillating at fairly significant angles. For a minute there, it was so bad that I thought it was going to crash.
After that flight I went into the Naza assistant and turned the gains down quite a bit. I'm still playing around with the gains now, but it is much better.

Like TurboSpike I have been reading this thread with all of the great information from batfire and Jeng. Much appreciated!

In fact, I just took delivery today of the landing gear and gimbal that batfire recommended a couple of pages back.

Here is a pic of my X830:


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Old Jul 19, 2012, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by bitrate View Post
Hey guys,

I too have an X830. I ordered mine about 3 weeks ago and received it about a week after placing the order.

I went with the X830-D version to get the Naza. This is a fairly impressive quad - good size - good power - good stability. Overall, I am impressed.

I will say, however, if you order the X830-D (Naza) you may want to play with the default gains that WowHobbies sends the unit to you with. My first flight was an interesting exercise. I was descending from about 40 feet up and the quad started oscillating at fairly significant angles. For a minute there, it was so bad that I thought it was going to crash.
After that flight I went into the Naza assistant and turned the gains down quite a bit. I'm still playing around with the gains now, but it is much better.

Like TurboSpike I have been reading this thread with all of the great information from batfire and Jeng. Much appreciated!

In fact, I just took delivery today of the landing gear and gimbal that batfire recommended a couple of pages back.

Here is a pic of my X830:


Hi Birate,

Thanks for the nice compliments. I am looking forward to hearing about the Naza version like Derek from your flight trials. Yes you are correct you have to dial down the gains. I can give you gains for the V1 and V2 Xa FC's that have really made it a smooth flyer but don't know on Naza FC. I have never owned that flight controller, I have been only working with XA FC's to date but hoping they will put the WK-M on the X830 and offer it. I stay with the X-830 because there is no bigger non commercial quad out there. It carries the most weight. If you order the skid system get the 155 instead of the 200 and you can save a little weight. Jeng is already testing the 200mm skid and I will be testing it after I feel the quad is dialed in completely. We both found that it is close on the weight limit of 2 lbs with batteries and camera gear. Sure it can lift 5.2 lbs but I don't feel it will be stable or safe. One reason is you will have to trade the props for wood zinger props due to the originals can't handle that kind of weight im afraid. They would blow apart on you. So this is what Jeng and I were speaking of the other night. Jeng's the daredevil and I am more conservative. He doesnt mine kicking the tires and lighting the fires and see what happens. I take it slow, slower, slowest until I am sure its locked in and no gremlins. I cant wait to test the compass gps system on V2 to see what the differences might be. I do know I connected the gps last night and inside the house I was getting 9 sats in seconds and a pacc of 171, I was impressed. The V1 would hold 8 sats and 238 pacc at best and that was outside. Oh well keep us up to date with your Naza flights.
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 09:15 AM
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Cape Coral, FL
Joined Nov 2001
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Originally Posted by batfire View Post
HI Derek,

...... get the Devo 10 with Rx1002 nice radio and I am a spektrum person and this new Devo 10 kicks butt.
Batfire,

That's a great list. I will study and digest!!

Meanwhile, I'm most curious about the Devo 10 and Rx1002. I have a Spektrum DX6i and brand new DX8. I'm open to getting a Devo 10, but know nothing about them. You seem very impressed. In a nutshell, what's the main advantage over the DX8 as relates to Quad and aerial photo's. For example, I notice the DX8 has only one (just one!) variable knob. And it's hard to reach. Everything else is switches. So for a 2 axis gimble control, how could you point a camera and let it stay there with only one knob?

Derek
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 10:27 AM
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Damn right I'm the daredevil lol, I'm happy to see more people get involved with this thread and a big welcome to all of you.

I've acted more noobish then I really am on this subject actually but thats because I normally post here in frustration.

First two bench tests went well today with some changes in the gains, i've found that the gains that Batfire mentioned are the overall best way to go. I've played with the gps gains a bit to get more of a solid possition hold but all the other gains are on point.

-Jeng
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by DerekB View Post
Batfire,

That's a great list. I will study and digest!!

Meanwhile, I'm most curious about the Devo 10 and Rx1002. I have a Spektrum DX6i and brand new DX8. I'm open to getting a Devo 10, but know nothing about them. You seem very impressed. In a nutshell, what's the main advantage over the DX8 as relates to Quad and aerial photo's. For example, I notice the DX8 has only one (just one!) variable knob. And it's hard to reach. Everything else is switches. So for a 2 axis gimble control, how could you point a camera and let it stay there with only one knob?

Derek
Spektrums are good radios because of the ease of use and general reliability within it's range limits, Not to mention it's ability to just bind and fly. The walkera radios are pretty different then JR/Futaba, I have a Devo 10 for two of my walkera choppers that I fly 3D with and I've noticed that the range on the Devo's are far superior to the Spektrum radios but I would match them evenly on performance.

Personally I'm a Futaba guy from my plane flying experiences, I attempt to use my 10cap on any craft that responds well to it(turboace was not one of them). So I am flying my X830 with a DX7s which does very well but lacks the channels to fully unlock every feature available
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 11:59 AM
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Two more test flights today with reletive success, I'm running with ahrs and compass only and there is some significant drift that is pretty hard to solve with trim. It could be because it's gusty out today so I will wait for a calm test flight to be sure.Perhaps it could have been because I turned the attitude gain down -10 after the last flight ended in TBE

Bat was right about the difference in weight, It takes some strong throttle to "Pop" it off the ground to clear the ground effect. With stock gear like bitrate has I had no problem taking off gracefully but not with the new skids and 2x para'd 3s batts

Test flight videos will come soon
-Jeng
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by DerekB View Post
Batfire,

That's a great list. I will study and digest!!

Meanwhile, I'm most curious about the Devo 10 and Rx1002. I have a Spektrum DX6i and brand new DX8. I'm open to getting a Devo 10, but know nothing about them. You seem very impressed. In a nutshell, what's the main advantage over the DX8 as relates to Quad and aerial photo's. For example, I notice the DX8 has only one (just one!) variable knob. And it's hard to reach. Everything else is switches. So for a 2 axis gimble control, how could you point a camera and let it stay there with only one knob?

Derek
Hi Derek,

The Devoc10 has 2 variable knobs(Aux 4 and 5) which is nice. But to answer no if you have enough switches available then you will have tilt and roll to set up . I cant help on shudder since I wont be using that function so havent really looked at it. I use a gopro Hd on mine. On the tilt and roll once you set them up the FC takes over and auto adjust so that camera stays level in flight.

I too have spektrum dx6i and a new dx7 that i never have opened on shelf. That was going to one of my winged drones at some point.

I also have Devo 7 (nice unit but not enough switches for quad) and the Devo 10 that I really like but as I expand I now want Devo 12 More channels, I need more channels.
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Jengaleng View Post
Two more test flights today with reletive success, I'm running with ahrs and compass only and there is some significant drift that is pretty hard to solve with trim. It could be because it's gusty out today so I will wait for a calm test flight to be sure.Perhaps it could have been because I turned the attitude gain down -10 after the last flight ended in TBE

Bat was right about the difference in weight, It takes some strong throttle to "Pop" it off the ground to clear the ground effect. With stock gear like bitrate has I had no problem taking off gracefully but not with the new skids and 2x para'd 3s batts

Test flight videos will come soon
-Jeng
Hi Jeng,

Excellent! I knew you would hang in there. Make sure you go back if you are having drift issues, sorry to say, and start over. You need to put all trims on TX back to center and recalibrate AHRS with bubble level and test fly about 4-5 ft off ground to verify drift is out. If not go down my list in Tutorial 1 blog of possible issues causing drift and verify all of those are corrected. You will have the yaw drift. Once all roll tilt drift out with NO TRIM adjustments on TX then you can move to installing and calibrating Compass. This is where people go wrong and as they continue adding and flying the drift issues get worse.

So back to more test flying and adjusting for you. Take your time it’s now a lab experiment ie Man against Machine It just takes a little time to get the drift out but once you do and then add compass and retest you will be happy with results and it won’t feel as squirrely. I think I settled out on V1 with 36% on all gains in STICK GAINS. I will have to wait until I get home at midnight tonight and will try to post all gain settings on my V1 copter. It should be close to the same for V2 also except for the extra gains added.

Update: I did post my gains on the blogs but here they are for V1 which is same copter so should be close.

Stick Gains Pitch – 36, Roll – 36, Yaw – 36
Attitude Control Gain Pitch – 30, Roll – 30, Yaw – 25
Auto leveling gains Pitch – 40, Roll – 40
GPS gain – 30
Height gain – 35

While you are in there set Height gain to 35 and RTH gain to 35. The factory settings are to high.

Cant wait for the test flight videos with the new skids. You are way ahead of me on that end. I have finally started getting decent test flights. So Im ready now on the weekend to connect the compass and flight test. The skids are in the distance to add for now.

Heh I remounted the cam for FPV to the tilt/roll camera mount and the camera sits right in front right of gopro so that I can see exactly what the gopro is seeing. I think I like this set up better. With the auto stab on the camera gimbal system should give nice level viewing.
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 03:21 PM
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just ordered x4 motors, x4 escs,hub,arms,skids(pretty much everything except the FC) and I'm going to build that with the naza and gps I have sitting around and compare the two along side eachother.

Btw it came to about 700 bucks for everything except the FC so it makes me wonder why I paid the extra 500 bucks for them to send me something that I tore apart anyway.

-Jeng
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 04:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Jengaleng View Post
just ordered x4 motors, x4 escs,hub,arms,skids(pretty much everything except the FC) and I'm going to build that with the naza and gps I have sitting around and compare the two along side eachother.

Btw it came to about 700 bucks for everything except the FC so it makes me wonder why I paid the extra 500 bucks for them to send me something that I tore apart anyway.

-Jeng
Hi Jeng,

What size are you building? Give us the specs. I have not decided on motors for my own design yet due to I have not researched the market yet. I dont want key mounting props. I want to be able to use wood props. I havent looked into esc's yet either. I have 3 spare 35a escs for X830 but want to doing all motors/escs and wiring myself without TA equipment so can test V1 controller on its own. I want to stay at least in the carrying range I am now or a little more. Thinking 900mm-1000mm frame quad only.
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 04:58 PM
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I ordered all of the individual parts for the x830, so all I need to do is build it and add on my naza fc,gps and one of my spektrum rx's.
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 05:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Jengaleng View Post
I ordered all of the individual parts for the x830, so all I need to do is build it and add on my naza fc,gps and one of my spektrum rx's.
Ah ok so you are same boat as I. I have lots of spares on hand to build another one. I am short one esc and one arm but was thinking of using different motors and esc's so as to use zinger wood props on this one. My new design I put below in pics.

Craft completely surrounded by CF ring for strength and crash survivalbility. Using moldless design for build. The frame is fiberglass and arms are aluminum. This is next summer build. Still in planning stage. Onboard FPV gear not shown in these pics nor the gopro with mount.
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