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Old Jan 22, 2012, 01:32 AM
Bypass Ratio = Infinity
scatsob's Avatar
United States, NC, Jacksonville
Joined Apr 2006
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The Align is a big motor. The Suppo 3740 is 44mmx65mm and 370 grams. The Align is 52mmx63mm and 470 grams. The Align is also rated at 4000 watts continuous and 6600 watts burst, so ~150 amps at 44.4 volts. Not to bad for a motor people done seem to think is worth more than $50.

Just in case anyone is wondering, the CS 120mm fan and Scorpion 4035 weighs 28oz.
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Old Jan 22, 2012, 04:08 AM
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Melton Australia
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Motor for the Ramtec EDF

The Ramtec is currently powered by the specially made Scorpion 5035 @ 650kV around 21 lbs of static thrust on 12s and 180 amps. I have done a Neu motor powered type and the results are 590kv 14s 147amps and 20 lbs static thrust.
I have made all the tooling for the Ramtec myself and these tools don't owe me anything, but here is the problem why the Ramtec with motor sells for $475 USD. Scorpion have set the retail price of their motor at $400 USD (check out Hobbyking on a similar 5035 it also sells for $400 -actually $399)
The other factor is that I give my dealers a percentage off the retail price and it is a substantial value !
Now due to my dealers occasionally selling a unit here or there, I am seriously considering selling at factory prices - all I need is a better priced motor around the 600kv and up to about 6500 watts burst.
My price would come down to around $300 USD for the Ramtec with motor fully assembled and test run.
I am sorry for hijacking this thread but I did see some comparisons made in this thread to the Ramtec and another feature of this thread is how to get a fan at the best price. I may be able to bridge the gap between the high end fans and the Chinese knock-offs.
Best regards
Tony Roessen
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Last edited by Ramtec; Jan 22, 2012 at 05:08 AM.
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Old Jan 22, 2012, 06:01 AM
Bypass Ratio = Infinity
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United States, NC, Jacksonville
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You are good Tony. I only compared to your fan because I knew it was loaded more than the Dynamax so it would probably be closer to the CS with respect to the KV of the motor for a decient 12s setup. I can't remember where I read that people were using the 4035-560 for 12s at ~15lb static. Those are the numbers I am shooting for and it seems to have worked based on some limited testing.
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Old Jan 22, 2012, 06:33 AM
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United States, TX, Grand Prairie
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramtec View Post
The Ramtec is currently powered by the specially made Scorpion 5035 @ 650kV around 21 lbs of static thrust on 12s and 180 amps. I have done a Neu motor powered type and the results are 590kv 14s 147amps and 20 lbs static thrust....
Best regards
Tony Roessen
Buddy and I went to a field and saw a Formost 150 being pushed by a jetcat P60, this instantly turned a group of men into 12yr olds...P60s are 13-14lbs of thrust IIRC. Not everyone needs 20lbs of thrust to be astonished with the performance of a large scale model jet.

The turbine guys have a graduated pricing structure based off performance. Balancing butter smooth is always been a PITA for me so I would love that service.

Give SUPPO a call, they have some nice sized motors at 530kv. HK gets enough of the motors to sell for 37usd, the 910kv I have with the older CS 120mm fan I estimate will do 15lbs of thrust around 5k watts it's 95usd slow shipped.

Can't go to 14s with it but prolly wouldn't care either, until I need more speed then...well,
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Old Jan 22, 2012, 06:48 AM
Bypass Ratio = Infinity
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United States, NC, Jacksonville
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You run yours up on 10s yet ERH?
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Old Jan 22, 2012, 09:53 AM
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Originally Posted by LuvEvolution7 View Post
I understand that you are annoyed Stu. I would be too, but I think it's a little far fetched for you to say that you are losing money from any of the CS fans though. bottom line is that guys who love your fans will continue to buy them because the fans offer exactly what they are looking for at the price they are looking for. the folks who will buy these fans will buy them because they also love your fans but will never be able to afford them for whatever reason. so, for that reason, you've lost nothing except the actual design.

now, do I believe they owe you something for stealing the design? hell yeah! I feel your pain, honestly. I don't believe you should stop doing what you do, because as long as you do it, you'll sell to the folks who love your product and continue to make money at it. I think you would be doing a great injustice to all who swear by your products. I would love a Stumax fan, but I can't afford one. instead, I have to be jealous of those who can. now, along comes CS and gives me an option that I can afford and have one of my planes sound like a plane, instead of a pissed off mosquito on steroids. one day, I hope to be able to buy one of your fans, but till then, I'm like many others and have to stick to what I can afford. unfortunately, it's CS. is it fair? no. unfortunately, it's life, whether we like it or not. I don't think you should give up, despite what you are feeling. it would be as unfair to your existing customers, as the Chinese copiers are being to you.

Rich
It Makes sense, I would buy one but not 2, so the 2nd one, i choose CS for lower end use.... Stu always for hi end plane like JTM.
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Old Jan 22, 2012, 10:41 AM
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United States, TX, Grand Prairie
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Originally Posted by scatsob View Post
You run yours up on 10s yet ERH?

Not yet, hopefully will get to it tonight
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Old Jan 22, 2012, 03:45 PM
Do it Right, the first time!
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United States, MN, Hermantown
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Been reading bits and pieces of this thread, mostly towards the end. Checked out X-Flights site, and have a question. As I read it, most motors should have a 8mm shaft, and you talk of "grub screws", I only know them as allen or set screws, I live "up north". SO-----

How is the rotor held on to motor shaft? Don't they use a collet type shaft adaptor? Also, what is the hole id on the rotor? Thanks.
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Old Jan 22, 2012, 03:56 PM
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United States, NC, Jacksonville
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolerByTheLake View Post
Been reading bits and pieces of this thread, mostly towards the end. Checked out X-Flights site, and have a question. As I read it, most motors should have a 8mm shaft, and you talk of "grub screws", I only know them as allen or set screws, I live "up north". SO-----

How is the rotor held on to motor shaft? Don't they use a collet type shaft adaptor? Also, what is the hole id on the rotor? Thanks.
Most motors do not have an 8mm shaft that I have seen. Of course most NEU and HET motors one would put in this fan will have an 8mm shaft but a lot of heli motors that people are using are 6mm. My Scorpion had a 6mm, but Scorpion are turned down to 6mm from 8mm so all I had to do was replace the shaft with one that was not turned down.

The hole ID of the rotor is 8mm and it is held by four set screws. Just make four nicks in the shaft with a dremel for the set screws with some Loctite and you are good to go.
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Old Jan 22, 2012, 04:16 PM
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United States, MN, Hermantown
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Thanks, scatsob. I had the idea, it may be installed that way. Wouldn't it be possible to use a 6mm collect adaptor like this one: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXMSG6&P=M

8mm= .31496" and 5/16= .3125". I know that's spliting hairs, but has anyone tried this, or just not possible? If nothing else, I learned one more thing today! Mark

Sorry, the only fan I realy know about is my Dynamax/4030 set-up.
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Old Jan 22, 2012, 04:25 PM
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United States, NC, Jacksonville
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I actually have that adaptor but it’s on my contra-prop setup and my CS fan is all buttoned up. I think erh7771 is going to use that adaptor with his Suppo motors, I am sure he will chime in. The problems I see when those adaptors are no way to attach the nose cone unless you can find a threaded bolt that will work, and the rear opening in the fan is quite a bit bigger then 8mm. You would have to have a spacer machined for it to work. Other than that as long as you have plenty of bite on a 6mm shaft it should be OK.
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Old Jan 22, 2012, 05:15 PM
Do it Right, the first time!
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I see your point. I was lucky, in that I used the original nut from the Dynamax fan, which is 5/16x24. Spinner bolted right up. How ever, I could have save an oz or 2 going with aluminum spinner.
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Old Jan 22, 2012, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoolerByTheLake View Post
Thanks, scatsob. I had the idea, it may be installed that way. Wouldn't it be possible to use a 6mm collect adaptor like this one: http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...?&I=LXMSG6&P=M

8mm= .31496" and 5/16= .3125". I know that's spliting hairs, but has anyone tried this, or just not possible? If nothing else, I learned one more thing today! Mark

Sorry, the only fan I realy know about is my Dynamax/4030 set-up.
That shaft adapter fits CS's shaft adapter perfectly but the blades stick out of the shroud and that's if your 6mm shaft is not too long.

I'm going to hit CS up for the 6mm shaft for lower power apps, they put 9000watts through the fan with some 800kv motor...doubt there's a high percentage of people wanting to do that.

On the other hand it looks like 13.3lbs was hit unlipped and 100% fsa which would be around 15.9lbs if 20% thurst\watt increase is to be used which sound conservative. That was at 22500 RPM (40volts x 560kv) which would make for a 500kv motor for > 15lbs at 45 volts (22500 rpm \ 45 volts = 500kv motor)

Or the same numbers could be hit on 14s (22500 \ 52 volts = 430kv motor) with 430kv. With that you can go down to 400kv on 14s and tap the timing for more thrust cause of head room on esc and motor.

There are a number of 350 - 450kv 5065mm big bell outrunners that are around 30-40usd, the Ice 14s 120amp esc is 90usd from himodel

keeping it budget no doubt
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Old Jan 23, 2012, 12:15 AM
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United States, AZ, Queen Creek
Joined Feb 2004
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I know that I read that this fan's motor tube was 52mm diameter, but could I ask someone that has one of these in hand with a pair of calipers to measure the EXACT inside diameter of the motor tube please?

The Hacker Turnado has an 8mm motor shaft and is listed as 52mm diameter as well - so this might be close!

The A50-10L Turnado is 580 kV - might work really well if it will fit in the motor tube

Thanks
Mike
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Old Jan 23, 2012, 03:27 AM
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Joined Jan 2012
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Is there a cheaper alternative to the scorpion motor. Been looking on line and cant find a suitable motor that will handle the watts on 12s
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