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Old Nov 26, 2011, 12:47 PM
Coaxial to CP? *shrugs*
ShaneXman's Avatar
United States, CA, Laguna Niguel
Joined Nov 2011
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Walkera Genius CP for Beginners?

Hi All! Needless to say, I am new to the forum and helicopters alike. I have quite a bit of experience in the RC world, but a very amateur/modest amount of experience in the heli realm. My background is mainly RC cars and trucks, as I've been a hobbyist and racer in my earlier life. I have countless numbers of cars and trucks, both electric and nitro. Most notably, my newest truck is a HPI Savage XL 5.9 Gigante Truck.

Now that I am older and have more disposable income, I have decided to delve into the heli world...beyond the 3-Channel toys I've abused and played with throughout my life.

I currently own a pair of Esky 2.4Ghz Nano RTF 4-Channel Co-Axials, as well as an Exceed 2.4Ghz WarHawk 300 RTF 4-Channel Co-Axial (Police Blue), of which I have gained pretty valuable experience and technique.

I am looking to jump into the 6-Channel/3D heli group, and from everything I've read the Walkera Genius CP is an extremely versatile and forgiving helicopter. The aspects that are most appealing for me, is the fact that you can switch it from a "beginner" (6-Axis Mode) or 3D (3-Axis Mode), which will allow me to learn and master the 6-Channel format...and switch over to 3D when I am ready to start pushing the boundaries. Additionally, I've read many posts and I have seen many videos showing that it is nearly indestructible, which is a HUGE plus in my book. I also like the modular nature of the helicopter, which makes repairs and upgrades that much easier.

Anyways, I wanted to post up to say "hello", and to get everyones opinion and feedback on this helicopter for a beginner with minimal heli experience. I look forward to hearing your feedback, and I thank you in advance for any and all constructive information you can give me. Cheers!
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Old Nov 26, 2011, 05:07 PM
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Hi there, I own the BL genius and I love it so far, way more than the mcp x that was a "decent" but fix-er-up, mod it frankenstein. I'm no 3d guy....don't have the money to risk it lol.
The only downfall to this heli I see and googled so far is the landing gear attached to the frame, thanks walkera! But I have reinforced it by using plastic tubing and putting CA glue to it.
Just my two cents ALL

Anyone have some throttle curves for a Devo 8, having the issue of the heli wanting to slam the ground upon pitch change & throttle pump.... thx!
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Old Nov 26, 2011, 05:18 PM
Newb Rotary Pilot
Odenton, MD
Joined Apr 2009
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Check this thread here and you will see all the work that needs to be done to get the 6 axis to fly right. I tried it one time and it flew like crap so I just went to the 3 axis setting.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1536760

As far as it being a good beginner heli?? I am kind of torn because I love my GCP and I think it is super easy to fly but I have been flying CP for about 2 years and single rotor FP helis for about 1 1/2 - 2 years.

Tough for me to recomend a CP heli when your only experience is coax. Not saying it can't be done but would hate to see you get frustrated and quit.

So if you are up for a REAL challenge I would say the GCP would be good for you. If you are the type that is easily frustrated do yourself a favor and get a solo pro or an msr. Fly that around a bit untill you learn all your orientations and such. I would definitely recomend the genius to you after a few months of flying any single rotor FP heli for a few months.

The genius is super tough if you fly outside over grass and hit throttle hold before crashing. I dumped mine today no less than 50 times inverted in the grass today and no damage. Well the canopy got all busted but nothing some packing tape couldn't fix.

Good luck on whichever path you choose. This is a very rewarding hobby and the new technology is just making it easier to learn.

Happy flying!
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Old Nov 26, 2011, 05:49 PM
Coaxial to CP? *shrugs*
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United States, CA, Laguna Niguel
Joined Nov 2011
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Originally Posted by RcHeli_Newb View Post
Hi there, I own the BL genius and I love it so far, way more than the mcp x that was a "decent" but fix-er-up, mod it frankenstein. I'm no 3d guy....don't have the money to risk it lol.
The only downfall to this heli I see and googled so far is the landing gear attached to the frame, thanks walkera! But I have reinforced it by using plastic tubing and putting CA glue to it.
Just my two cents ALL
The Blade mCP X is another heli I was looking at, but I'm pretty sure I want to stick with Walkera. Like you, I'm not looking to be a "3D guy", but I'm definitely not counting it out. I would love to be able to fly extremely proficiently, and throw in a few 3D moves every now and then. Some great input, and I appreciate the heads up on the landing gear weak point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nytflyer View Post
Check this thread here and you will see all the work that needs to be done to get the 6 axis to fly right. I tried it one time and it flew like crap so I just went to the 3 axis setting.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1536760

As far as it being a good beginner heli?? I am kind of torn because I love my GCP and I think it is super easy to fly but I have been flying CP for about 2 years and single rotor FP helis for about 1 1/2 - 2 years.

Tough for me to recomend a CP heli when your only experience is coax. Not saying it can't be done but would hate to see you get frustrated and quit.

So if you are up for a REAL challenge I would say the GCP would be good for you. If you are the type that is easily frustrated do yourself a favor and get a solo pro or an msr. Fly that around a bit untill you learn all your orientations and such. I would definitely recomend the genius to you after a few months of flying any single rotor FP heli for a few months.

The genius is super tough if you fly outside over grass and hit throttle hold before crashing. I dumped mine today no less than 50 times inverted in the grass today and no damage. Well the canopy got all busted but nothing some packing tape couldn't fix.

Good luck on whichever path you choose. This is a very rewarding hobby and the new technology is just making it easier to learn.

Happy flying!
Thank you for the feedback, valuable info and positive reinforcement.

I thought that maybe starting with a 4-Channel Fixed Pitch heli would be the best learning route, but I was thinking that maybe I could get the best of all worlds with the Genius CP.

I am definitely not one to quit or get frustrated, and I have a lot of patience when it comes to learning and mastering a given task.

What do you think of the Walkera V120D02 vs. the Genius CP? Any benefit of one over the other? Is one easier to fly/learn on than the other? Seems like the Genius is the more versatile of the two, but I could be wrong.

If I did choose to go down the Fixed Pitched route, what do you think of the Walkera CB100? It seems to meet your single rotor, fixed pitch criteria. Would either the Nine Eagle Solo Pro or the Blade mSR be better choices than the CB100? If so, if you could educate me as to why that would be a HUGE help.

Sorry for all of the questions, I'm just trying to get as educated as possible before pulling the trigger on one. Thanks for your time and help!
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Old Nov 26, 2011, 06:23 PM
Newb Rotary Pilot
Odenton, MD
Joined Apr 2009
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Originally Posted by ShaneXman View Post
The Blade mCP X is another heli I was looking at, but I'm pretty sure I want to stick with Walkera. Like you, I'm not looking to be a "3D guy", but I'm definitely not counting it out. I would love to be able to fly extremely proficiently, and throw in a few 3D moves every now and then. Some great input, and I appreciate the heads up on the landing gear weak point.



Thank you for the feedback, valuable info and positive reinforcement.

I thought that maybe starting with a 4-Channel Fixed Pitch heli would be the best learning route, but I was thinking that maybe I could get the best of all worlds with the Genius CP.

I am definitely not one to quit or get frustrated, and I have a lot of patience when it comes to learning and mastering a given task.

What do you think of the Walkera V120D02 vs. the Genius CP? Any benefit of one over the other? Is one easier to fly/learn on than the other? Seems like the Genius is the more versatile of the two, but I could be wrong.

If I did choose to go down the Fixed Pitched route, what do you think of the Walkera CB100? It seems to meet your single rotor, fixed pitch criteria. Would either the Nine Eagle Solo Pro or the Blade mSR be better choices than the CB100? If so, if you could educate me as to why that would be a HUGE help.

Sorry for all of the questions, I'm just trying to get as educated as possible before pulling the trigger on one. Thanks for your time and help!
Nothing wrong with the CB100 I have never owned one but all the guys in the CB100 thread love them. One of walkera's better models for sure. It has a self stabilizing head like the MSR and solo pro. That means when you let go of the cyclic stick it will pretty much just stop where it is and hover.

With a CP heli you cannot let go of the cyclic for more than a second it requires constant tiny corrections to maintain a hover. The best analogy I have heard is imagine you have a sheet of glass about 1ft x 1ft square in your hand with a marble on it. Now try and run down the street with it without the marble falling off.

The CB100 is heavy though and even though it is a tough heli you will likely break parts faster than you would with the MSR or solo pro. I slammed my msr into the walls SOOOO many times and very rarely did anything break.

You do not want the V120D02 it is much more an advanced heli it is also considerably larger than any of these other micro helis so you WIL NOT be flying it inside unless you are in a gym or something and even then you will break it quickly being new. Since it has a tail shaft drive and not a motor on the tail it is VERY easy to strip the tail gears unless you mod them.

If you want to start with a CP and from your attitude it sounds like you might be able to do it succesfully get a Genius CP or MCPX.

I have both and love both as well. The genius is by far a better flier out of the box. The mcpx flies great stock too with a few simple mods.

Or if you want to do the FP route get either the CB100, solo pro, or MSR. You can't go wrong with any of those.

A good sim is always a big help to when you are learning I wish I had one to practice learning inverted but my computer is crap and if I bought a new 1 and a sim I would have to money left for my helis.
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Old Nov 26, 2011, 07:31 PM
Coaxial to CP? *shrugs*
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Originally Posted by Nytflyer View Post
Nothing wrong with the CB100 I have never owned one but all the guys in the CB100 thread love them. One of walkera's better models for sure. It has a self stabilizing head like the MSR and solo pro. That means when you let go of the cyclic stick it will pretty much just stop where it is and hover.

With a CP heli you cannot let go of the cyclic for more than a second it requires constant tiny corrections to maintain a hover. The best analogy I have heard is imagine you have a sheet of glass about 1ft x 1ft square in your hand with a marble on it. Now try and run down the street with it without the marble falling off.

The CB100 is heavy though and even though it is a tough heli you will likely break parts faster than you would with the MSR or solo pro. I slammed my msr into the walls SOOOO many times and very rarely did anything break.

You do not want the V120D02 it is much more an advanced heli it is also considerably larger than any of these other micro helis so you WIL NOT be flying it inside unless you are in a gym or something and even then you will break it quickly being new. Since it has a tail shaft drive and not a motor on the tail it is VERY easy to strip the tail gears unless you mod them.

If you want to start with a CP and from your attitude it sounds like you might be able to do it succesfully get a Genius CP or MCPX.

I have both and love both as well. The genius is by far a better flier out of the box. The mcpx flies great stock too with a few simple mods.

Or if you want to do the FP route get either the CB100, solo pro, or MSR. You can't go wrong with any of those.

A good sim is always a big help to when you are learning I wish I had one to practice learning inverted but my computer is crap and if I bought a new 1 and a sim I would have to money left for my helis.
Good to know! Yeah, I've read a lot of threads on the CB100, and I've been hard pressed to find anything bad about them. I do like Walkera's helis, so that will probably be the route I will take. Also, as far as I can tell, Walkera parts are much simpler to come by than Blade parts. But from the sounds of it, the mSR wouldn't require parts very frequently, so that's something to consider. Have you had any trouble getting parts for your mSR? Do you get them directly from Blade?

Additionally, I really like the new Walkera DeVention 8 radio (which is offered as an option on the Genius CP), but I wouldn't be able to purchase it and use it with the CB100 AND the Genius CP. This means that I would have to purchase separate radios for a 4-Channel FP and the 6-Channel GCP. This might be a dumb question, but is there any way you can program the Devo 8 to work on a 4-Channel helicopter such as the CB100, Solo Pro or mSR?

That is a phenomenal analogy. It actually reminds me of those marble labyrinth maze games, where you have to consistently change the angle of the board to get the marble to the end of the maze and in the hole.

I'm glad you gave me the heads up on the V120D02, so I don't continue to belabor the point of specs and comparisons. LOL

From the sounds of it, it sounds like I'm on the right path. The only question now is CP or FP. Let the research continue. I just don't want to invest in a FP, only to move on quickly to a CP. Can I learn all the same skills with the CP that I could with the FP without picking up any bad habits or less than stellar skills?

I looked into sims, such as RealFlight, but all of the ones that come highly recommended on the forum don't work on a Mac. I don't own a PC, so that makes things a tad bit more difficult. The only one I found that works on a Mac is the RC Helicopter Simulator by AlphaMacSoftware (http://www.alphamacsoftware.com/).

What is the best place to purchase helicopters, parts, etc.? I've heard a lot about Wow Hobbies, as well as XHeli. I know they don't carry Blade products, but I thought maybe you would know the "Go To" places in the RC Heli world.

Thanks again for all of your help. Cheers!
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Old Nov 26, 2011, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Nytflyer View Post
I have both and love both as well. The genius is by far a better flier out of the box. The mcpx flies great stock too with a few simple mods.
What mods would be required?

Nomad
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Old Nov 26, 2011, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by ShaneXman View Post
Hi All! Needless to say, I am new to the forum and helicopters alike. I have quite a bit of experience in the RC world, but a very amateur/modest amount of experience in the heli realm. My background is mainly RC cars and trucks, as I've been a hobbyist and racer in my earlier life. I have countless numbers of cars and trucks, both electric and nitro. Most notably, my newest truck is a HPI Savage XL 5.9 Gigante Truck.

Now that I am older and have more disposable income, I have decided to delve into the heli world...beyond the 3-Channel toys I've abused and played with throughout my life.

I currently own a pair of Esky 2.4Ghz Nano RTF 4-Channel Co-Axials, as well as an Exceed 2.4Ghz WarHawk 300 RTF 4-Channel Co-Axial (Police Blue), of which I have gained pretty valuable experience and technique.

I am looking to jump into the 6-Channel/3D heli group, and from everything I've read the Walkera Genius CP is an extremely versatile and forgiving helicopter. The aspects that are most appealing for me, is the fact that you can switch it from a "beginner" (6-Axis Mode) or 3D (3-Axis Mode), which will allow me to learn and master the 6-Channel format...and switch over to 3D when I am ready to start pushing the boundaries. Additionally, I've read many posts and I have seen many videos showing that it is nearly indestructible, which is a HUGE plus in my book. I also like the modular nature of the helicopter, which makes repairs and upgrades that much easier.

Anyways, I wanted to post up to say "hello", and to get everyones opinion and feedback on this helicopter for a beginner with minimal heli experience. I look forward to hearing your feedback, and I thank you in advance for any and all constructive information you can give me. Cheers!
Hi shane

Heres the thing, if you go with the genius cp rtf do not open the box charge it up and fly it right off the bat, you will crash crash crash crash.

If you're patient and set up your radio correctly and set up your heli correctly before you fly it you will be rewarded with a succesful hover. Out the box its a handful there is no expo to much pitch to much travel that will bind and eventually strip your servo gears.

Be alert that most these guys have some experiance with cp heli's and radio set up so they usually use their own settings rather the factory default settings before flying. Especially setting up a correct throttle cut/hold.

Do yourself a favor and learn everything you can about setting up a Cp heli before you fly

I'm sure Nytflyer (Leo) will be more then happy to go over radio and heli setup with you if not ill kick his butt

Same goes for the mcpx

Happy holidays

Cheers

Dave
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Old Nov 26, 2011, 09:02 PM
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Odenton, MD
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Originally Posted by Nomad57 View Post
What mods would be required?

Nomad
With the Genius......no mods required it flies great right out of the box bone stock!

With the mcpx you have to at the VERY least do the grommet mod which is where you disconnect your servo links from the swash take the extra canopy grommets that come with the kit and put them over the swash balls. If you don't the heli will shake itself like it has parkinson's

That is the only mod you have to do if you are new to CP and just learning to hover. Once you can fly and start trying tricks like flips and such you need to extend the boom by about 3/4" and get the new version 3 tailblade which is only sold with the whole tailboom kit so you have to pay 15 bucks to get a little plastic blade. Or you can get the KBDD tailblades for about 4 bucks for 2 but most guys say the V3 tailblade is better.

My mcpx is brushless and I use the sr120 tail motor on it which has a bigger shaft than stock so I actually use a walkera tailblade on mine or the stock sr120 tailblade.
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Old Nov 26, 2011, 09:11 PM
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You could get the mcpx and fly it out of the box with a little time in on the bench or you could buy the walkera and sit around and wait for parts or you could just wait till they release the next heli after they figure out that one does not work.
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Old Nov 26, 2011, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by ShaneXman View Post
The Blade mCP X is another heli I was looking at, but I'm pretty sure I want to stick with Walkera. Like you, I'm not looking to be a "3D guy", but I'm definitely not counting it out. I would love to be able to fly extremely proficiently, and throw in a few 3D moves every now and then. Some great input, and I appreciate the heads up on the landing gear weak point.
If you don't plan to do 3D, the soon to be released mSRx seems to be able to accomplish quite nice upright acrobatics. Heard it can also loop outdoors. It should fly like a CP in normal mode but still be more durable than a CP in crashes. Even when you do move on to a CP, the mSRx will be able to be the 'fun' indoor heli while the CP is the 'outdoor' one...Just remember that CP's are much more sensitive to crashes affecting their 'finely' tuned setups than FPs indoors, and your heli will act like a rubber ball against the walls even when you did not intend to 'bounce' it in the first place. Why risk more sensitive parts replacements/re-adjustments with the CPs indoors when it rubber balls against the house stuff? Might as well have more fun training and having fun with the mSRx indoors with less worry since you would most likely not do 3D indoors anyways.
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Old Nov 26, 2011, 09:48 PM
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Odenton, MD
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Originally Posted by ShaneXman View Post
Good to know! Yeah, I've read a lot of threads on the CB100, and I've been hard pressed to find anything bad about them. I do like Walkera's helis, so that will probably be the route I will take. Also, as far as I can tell, Walkera parts are much simpler to come by than Blade parts. But from the sounds of it, the mSR wouldn't require parts very frequently, so that's something to consider. Have you had any trouble getting parts for your mSR? Do you get them directly from Blade?

Additionally, I really like the new Walkera DeVention 8 radio (which is offered as an option on the Genius CP), but I wouldn't be able to purchase it and use it with the CB100 AND the Genius CP. This means that I would have to purchase separate radios for a 4-Channel FP and the 6-Channel GCP. This might be a dumb question, but is there any way you can program the Devo 8 to work on a 4-Channel helicopter such as the CB100, Solo Pro or mSR?

That is a phenomenal analogy. It actually reminds me of those marble labyrinth maze games, where you have to consistently change the angle of the board to get the marble to the end of the maze and in the hole.

I'm glad you gave me the heads up on the V120D02, so I don't continue to belabor the point of specs and comparisons. LOL

From the sounds of it, it sounds like I'm on the right path. The only question now is CP or FP. Let the research continue. I just don't want to invest in a FP, only to move on quickly to a CP. Can I learn all the same skills with the CP that I could with the FP without picking up any bad habits or less than stellar skills?

I looked into sims, such as RealFlight, but all of the ones that come highly recommended on the forum don't work on a Mac. I don't own a PC, so that makes things a tad bit more difficult. The only one I found that works on a Mac is the RC Helicopter Simulator by AlphaMacSoftware (http://www.alphamacsoftware.com/).

What is the best place to purchase helicopters, parts, etc.? I've heard a lot about Wow Hobbies, as well as XHeli. I know they don't carry Blade products, but I thought maybe you would know the "Go To" places in the RC Heli world.

Thanks again for all of your help. Cheers!
Yea you are pretty much right about needing 2 radios if you start with the CB100 and then graduate to the genius. But the CB100 RTF kit is only about 20 bucks more than the bind and fly so you are really only paying 20 bucks for the transmitter and charger which you will need the charger anyway.

You could get the 2801 with your CB100 and then when ready for the G you could get the bind and fly for like $150 and use the 2801 for both helis. I wouldn't recomend this though as the Devo serious is walkera's new radios and although they are releasing the new helis right now for both systems I am pretty sure they are going to ditch the 2801 line pretty soon.

I have a few walkera helis and most are fixed pitch. 4#3b, V100d01, and a 4#6s that I converted to flybarless. So I have to use my 2402 to fly the 4#6 and then I use the 2403 to fly my 4#3 and V100. I got my GCP with the Devo 6 and I absolutely love that transmitter. So I think if you got the GCP and wanted the devo 8 that would be an excellent choice.

Another thing to realize is that walkera transmitters will only work on walkera helis/receivers they use there own 2.4ghz technology. Blade helis use there own technology called DSM2/X.

Point is if you start with a FP you are pretty much gonna have to use the RTF transmitter so it really doesn't matter if you start with the MSR or the CB100 because once you upgrade to CP you will need another transmitter.

I am not sure where you live but if you are in the US almost every local hobby shop(LHS) sells blade parts. This is a HUGE advantage in the fact that if you break something you can run out to the LHS and get spares when you need them and not be down for 3 or 4 days while you wait for parts. So with the MSR and mcpx if you break something you can likely take a 20 minute drive get your parts and be home and back flying within an hour. None of my LHS sell walkera parts at all. So that is a big disadvantage to me because when I break stuff it takes me a minimum of 3 days to get the parts to fix.

Wow hobbies is actually my go to helicrack dealer I have been ordering from them from years and have had a few problems but they have always taken care of me I have never ordered from xheli but I have heard very good comments about them as well. And wow does sell blade helis and parts too BTW.

And as Farmer(DAVE) said research research research. Especially if you are going to start with a CP heli. If you get the CB100 or MSR charge it up and start practicing these are going to be much faster then your coax but they still self stabalize so if you get into a pickle you can just let go of the cyclic and it will pretty much just self hover in place.

I would suggest you go over to helifreak and watch finless bob's videos on CP setup. He also has videos specifically about the GCP and MCPX. You can find them here.

http://www.helifreak.com/forumdisplay.php?f=60

I think you have to register to watch them but his videos are great and will help you kind of get an idea what you are getting yourself into with a CP heli. FP helis require MUCH less setup.

Helifreak has great MCPX threads. I love RC groups but the mcpx threads here get kind of cumbersome to find information IMO. Helifreak is much more organized so it is easier to find what you are looking for over there on the mcpx and any other blade heli as well. Not really sure why but the walkera threads over there are pretty dead so RCG is where you want to be for that info. Lots of great guys over here with a TON of knowledge on walkera helis much much more than I have.

Just take your time with your decision bud and let us know if you have any other questions

Good luck and have fun!
Leo
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Old Nov 26, 2011, 09:49 PM
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United States, CA
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Originally Posted by stablehover View Post
You could get the mcpx and fly it out of the box with a little time in on the bench or you could buy the walkera and sit around and wait for parts or you could just wait till they release the next heli after they figure out that one does not work.
Awww the beginner blues

Genius cp requires no parts to fly just some time to set up which is a priceless learning experiance.

It will fly out the box as is no problem

But thats not the point. It will even do 3D out the box bone stock with out having to feather the collective worrying about tail blow out like the mcpx

Here you go stock genius cp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=cFyneIe6Siw

Happy holidays

Dave
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Old Nov 26, 2011, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by butter_fingers View Post
If you don't plan to do 3D, the soon to be released mSRx seems to be able to accomplish quite nice upright acrobatics. It should fly like a CP in normal mode but still be more durable than a CP in crashes. Even when you do move on to a CP, the mSRx will be able to be the 'fun' indoor heli while the CP is the 'outdoor' one...Just remember that CP's are much more sensitive to crashes affecting their 'finely' tuned setups than FPs indoors, and your heli might act like a rubber ball sometimes against the walls even when you did not intend to 'bounce' it in the first place. Might as well have more fun training and having fun with the mSRx indoors with less worry since you would most likely not do 3D indoors anyways.
Very good point butterfingers I forgot all about the msrx that would be a great option as well. Don't listen to all the walkera haters out there either bud.

Walkera has really picked up their game with their newer models.
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Old Nov 26, 2011, 09:51 PM
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Originally Posted by f.a.r.m.e.r View Post
Awww the beginner blues

Genius cp requires no parts to fly just some time to set up which is a priceless learning experiance.

It will fly out the box as is no problem

But thats not the point. It will even do 3D out the box bone stock with out having to feather the collective worrying about tail blow out like the mcpx

Here you go stock genius cp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=cFyneIe6Siw

Happy holidays

Dave
LMAO Dave exactly what I was thinking!
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