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Old Aug 01, 2012, 10:59 AM
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pkapps68's Avatar
Canada, ON, Waterloo
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Originally Posted by romandesign View Post
I'm in Oakville, western Toronto suburb. Where are you?
I live in Waterloo. Not too far away.
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Old Aug 01, 2012, 11:09 AM
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Canada, ON, Waterloo
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I live in Waterloo.
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Old Aug 01, 2012, 05:14 PM
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United States, FL, Valrico
Joined Apr 2012
607 Posts
Real Flight AT-6 Flaps

Banana Hobby shipped my plane today so I will be joining the ever growing air force of AT-6 pilots. Looking forward to the build and of course the maiden flight.

Can someone comment on how the flaps affect the model AT-6. In RealFlight 6, the flaps increase the lift of the plane - the plane increases altitude from level flight with the application of full flaps. The exact opposite occurs with the P-51 Mustang in the sim - the plane noses down and loses altitude rapidly with full flaps. I would like to practice with an RF6 plane that mimics how my AT-6 is going to perform.

From what I've found on the web, flaps are really overkill for most small RC planes - there more for the novelty of scale flying than needed to slow the plane down for landing. Also, I can't figure out why everyone mentions a flare on landing. The AT-6 has conventional landing gear (two mains and a tail wheel). I certainly don't want to pitch the plane back onto the tail wheel by flaring the plane on touchdown. Now if it were a jet with tricycle gear I could see the need for a light flare. Am I missing something?

I hope to have RF6 landings figured out (flaps or not) before the maiden flight.

Please let me know about the reaction of the plane to flaps drop. Thanks.
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Old Aug 01, 2012, 07:54 PM
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United States, FL, St Petersburg
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Originally Posted by pkapps68 View Post
Romandesign; Where abouts in Canada are you? It is nice to know I am not the only Canadian here. The advice this thread gives, has been great and I enjoy reading the goings on with other owners. I need a bit of help to start off. With the wind we have had up here I am a bit intimidated to wreck either of my planes.
I'm a Canadian too. I'm currently living in Florida for the last 5 years, but I was born, raised, lived and worked just east of Toronto. Thinking I might redo the markings on my AT6 to something a little more Canadian.
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Old Aug 01, 2012, 08:10 PM
Yes it was Abby Normal
Joined May 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowSpeedStall View Post
Banana Hobby shipped my plane today so I will be joining the ever growing air force of AT-6 pilots. Looking forward to the build and of course the maiden flight.

Can someone comment on how the flaps affect the model AT-6. In RealFlight 6, the flaps increase the lift of the plane - the plane increases altitude from level flight with the application of full flaps. The exact opposite occurs with the P-51 Mustang in the sim - the plane noses down and loses altitude rapidly with full flaps. I would like to practice with an RF6 plane that mimics how my AT-6 is going to perform.

From what I've found on the web, flaps are really overkill for most small RC planes - there more for the novelty of scale flying than needed to slow the plane down for landing. Also, I can't figure out why everyone mentions a flare on landing. The AT-6 has conventional landing gear (two mains and a tail wheel). I certainly don't want to pitch the plane back onto the tail wheel by flaring the plane on touchdown. Now if it were a jet with tricycle gear I could see the need for a light flare. Am I missing something?

I hope to have RF6 landings figured out (flaps or not) before the maiden flight.

Please let me know about the reaction of the plane to flaps drop. Thanks.
LSS, I have experienced the BH AT-6 will indeed initially lift if flaps are engaged right before the landing, causing a balloon effect. Therefore - engage the flaps very early in the apprpoach and keep power on with a nose down attitude allowing the AT-6 to establish a steady rate of descent and settle down into a flat and level landing path...not a gliding path. Of course reduce the speed for the beginning of the landing path and hold steady as you fly it down...anotherwords keep power on all the way until the AT-6 is rolling on the runway and then cut back...

I am landing on a grass runway and have better landings without flaps.....as the grass really shuts the plane down as soon as the gear hits the grass. I crashed from a ballooning - induced by the flaps as I switched flaps on right about 10ft above the runway during a landing run, it rose, continued to slow down and then experienced the dreaded wing drop with no room or time to apply enough power and speed to recoverrat the top of the balloon. I have executed flaps now on landings just for the fun of it, but I have found that you still need to power on all the way down after establishing a very long landing approach run. Either way we have to establish that flat rate of decent in both configurations.....don't try to operate the flaps at the last minute...this is a no no...the plane will train you alright.

I have even flown the BH AT-6 for full round block passes with flaps fully engaged and brought it down. In my opinion flaps tend to mute elevator reaction some...as if it takes a greater amount of elevator to affect flight. On this note I have mixed in a little bid of down elevator with flaps at 100% to help me land with flaps engaged.

Again the best "Approach" is a pretty long landing set up, allow the plane to establish its own rate of decent and fly it in flat....no flare ups.

Cross winds are tricky but not as bad as trying to take off in cross winds. Take offs in cross winds is a fine touch of throttle and rudder...as too much throttle will enduce tork roll with not enough speed to prevent the wing tip stall. So landing in stiff cross winds is where the flaps can really help...use the rudder and keep the throttle steady. Again no flare....best landings are low and flat...if it balloons don't slam throttle off either ......fly it down again with throttle on ...or abort and go round again.

I am operating my AT-6 on a grass strip with at least enough battery time for a secondary landing pass...landing just as my timer is singing at the six minute mark....so I am landing at or near a 5Min30sec mark on the Genesis 55C 2500 LiPo with about 3.8v left on each cell. I am usually flying at about 80% with burst of full throttle, loops, rolls, figure eights, hammer heads and near Touch-N-Go's (hard to do TNG on grass ...even very short nap grass). Bear in mind I have upraded my motor to a HeadupRC Power Up 15 motor and a 60A ESC...so using up a little more battery than usual.

There is a great write up of landing the BH AT-6 R/C on this thread.... essentially I tried to practice that thread at the field...it works...will try to find the thread again and direct us to it.

My two cents and hope this helps.....

I am also simulating with Real Flight 6...which AT-6 are you simulating on?

TwistedGrin
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Old Aug 01, 2012, 08:12 PM
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Canada, ON, Waterloo
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This is my plan too. I have the Canadian emblems, but need to find the RCAF letters. I just maidened and crashed my Cessna. Time to rebuild. It has been very windy here, a I lost control of it. Oh well
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Old Aug 01, 2012, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowSpeedStall View Post
Banana Hobby shipped my plane today so I will be joining the ever growing air force of AT-6 pilots. Looking forward to the build and of course the maiden flight.

Can someone comment on how the flaps affect the model AT-6. In RealFlight 6, the flaps increase the lift of the plane - the plane increases altitude from level flight with the application of full flaps. The exact opposite occurs with the P-51 Mustang in the sim - the plane noses down and loses altitude rapidly with full flaps. I would like to practice with an RF6 plane that mimics how my AT-6 is going to perform.

From what I've found on the web, flaps are really overkill for most small RC planes - there more for the novelty of scale flying than needed to slow the plane down for landing. Also, I can't figure out why everyone mentions a flare on landing. The AT-6 has conventional landing gear (two mains and a tail wheel). I certainly don't want to pitch the plane back onto the tail wheel by flaring the plane on touchdown. Now if it were a jet with tricycle gear I could see the need for a light flare. Am I missing something?

I hope to have RF6 landings figured out (flaps or not) before the maiden flight.

Please let me know about the reaction of the plane to flaps drop. Thanks.
Generally, on real aircraft putting down the flaps causes the nose to rise so you have to hold down elevator until you get your trim sorted out. On models, people with mix-capable TXers mix in some down elevator coupled with flap actuation to automatically compensate for this.

Whether you're landing a tri gear or tail dragger you still flair on the landing. The technique is to make your descending approach, round out and hold the plane level with the ground inches above it then, as the speed bleeds off and it wants to settle, ease back on the elevator stick (flair) so you gently touch down in a three point attitude. Same thing for a tri gear but you probably won't drag the tail.
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Old Aug 01, 2012, 08:25 PM
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Thanks Terry,

I first bound the RX with the throttle trim down and then again in neutral to no avail. Where is this little switch? I don't remember seeing anything movable on the sound card except for the volume control.
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Old Aug 01, 2012, 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted by krazyman View Post
Try binding the RX with the throttle trim in the nuetral position. After binding and turn on TX and set the throttle trim down untill the motor noise quits. If that does not work move the little switch on the edge of the sound board in the other direction. Hope this works for you.

Terry
Thanks Terry,

I first bound the RX with the throttle trim down and then again in neutral to no avail. Where is this little switch? I don't remember seeing anything movable on the sound card except for the volume control.
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Old Aug 01, 2012, 08:47 PM
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Originally Posted by pkapps68 View Post
Romandesign; Where abouts in Canada are you? It is nice to know I am not the only Canadian here. The advice this thread gives, has been great and I enjoy reading the goings on with other owners. I need a bit of help to start off. With the wind we have had up here I am a bit intimidated to wreck either of my planes.
Me too...Sarnia, Guelph, Vancouver and now living in Perth, Western Australia.
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Old Aug 01, 2012, 09:38 PM
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Tennessee
Joined Apr 2009
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AT-6 RIP

Flew 5 packs yesterday and was really enjoying this plane finally. Five flights and five greasers on grass with half flaps. Flight six was great until on approach with half flaps I approached a little shallower than i should have and had the brain fart idea to hit the full flap switch. When I did that it immediately stalled and dropped the wing like Twisted Grin mentioned. Of course it was in the only spot where my view was obstructed so I could not see it to recover and it crashed in a parking lot.

100% pilot error but I'm done with this one. That stall is nasty and unforgiving. One major rebuild is one thing but two after a dozen flights or so is more than I want to fool with. Good Luck to all and don't let my experience scare you. The plane is a good flyer just keep your approach steep and don't go from 1/2 to full flaps in level slow flight.

Regards
Alan
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Old Aug 01, 2012, 10:41 PM
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United States, AZ, Camp Verde
Joined Jan 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stelvio View Post
Thanks Terry,

I first bound the RX with the throttle trim down and then again in neutral to no avail. Where is this little switch? I don't remember seeing anything movable on the sound card except for the volume control.
The switch is 2/3 of the way back from the heatsink on the bottom edge of the board on the left side looking at the board from the rear with the heatsink at the front. It is a very small switch. If you can turn the board over you will see it.

Terry
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 12:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LowSpeedStall View Post


Also, I can't figure out why everyone mentions a flare on landing. The AT-6 has conventional landing gear (two mains and a tail wheel). I certainly don't want to pitch the plane back onto the tail wheel by flaring the plane on touchdown. Now if it were a jet with tricycle gear I could see the need for a light flare. Am I missing something?

I hope to have RF6 landings figured out (flaps or not) before the maiden flight.

Please let me know about the reaction of the plane to flaps drop. Thanks.



Sir, Every airplane in the world flares right before touchdown, well they are supposed to anyway. Tailwheel or nosewheel has nothing to do with it. There has been many a landing gear ripped out because the pilot did not flare and just flew the aircraft into the ground. The only aircraft I can think of that actually don't flare, and are designed that way, and just "plop" down onto the deck are aircraft carrier based fighter jets. Even the Space Shuttle flares right before landing. Have you flown RC before?
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 01:50 AM
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Originally Posted by krazyman View Post
The switch is 2/3 of the way back from the heatsink on the bottom edge of the board on the left side looking at the board from the rear with the heatsink at the front. It is a very small switch. If you can turn the board over you will see it.

Terry
Thanks a lot Terry. I'll pull it all apart again tonight and check it out. I'll be a happy camper if this solves my problem as I was just resigning to fly it as is with the sound on all the time.
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Old Aug 02, 2012, 08:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krazyman View Post
The switch is 2/3 of the way back from the heatsink on the bottom edge of the board on the left side looking at the board from the rear with the heatsink at the front. It is a very small switch. If you can turn the board over you will see it.

Terry
Well, I just pulled it all apart, found that micro switch and tried it in all three positions. In one position there is no sound, in the middle position it still fires up as soon as I plug in the battery. Same with the third position. I tried moving it just a hair at a time and even tried re-binding again but no luck. I guess it's just a bad sound module. Let's see if BH will pick up the ball on this. After paying a hefty $65 shipping to Australia I'm loath to pay any more return shipping charges. Thanks anyway Terry.
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