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Old Sep 26, 2003, 12:04 PM
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Mini-Review
Rafale by Aeronaut





Is anybody besides Ulf Herder and Joerg in Germany and K Saunders in the UK flying the Aero-naut Rafale?

I am looking at a setup with twin B50-18S (or L) or 22/30/2 with two Beats and 14 GP 3300 NiMHd cells each for each fan (I can buy nine packs for one equivalent LiPo HD pack ).

I am planning on having the Hackers modified by our machine shop to allow for large front and back cooling holes.
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 12:06 PM
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 12:38 PM
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Hey Herb what about C motors with XL rotor's, think it's worth it?


Barry
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 01:18 PM
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IMHO as long as you stay with a 1 kilowatt or so limit per motor there would be no reason to go for the bigger / heavier / more expensive motors on this twin. 2,000 watts should be enough even for Herb
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 01:28 PM
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I was thinking about 650 Watts per motor. That's about 1300 Watts total. For each motor about 14 V x 46 A = ca. 650 Watts peak.

5 minute flights should be plenty, as I said I don't know anybody that would want to fly the Rafale for more than 5 minutes or so anyhow .
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 01:42 PM
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a new Costa Mesa coastal defense fighter!
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Herb
I was thinking about 650 Watts per motor. That's about 1300 Watts total. For each motor about 14 V x 46 A = ca. 650 Watts peak.

5 minute flights should be plenty, as I said I don't know anybody that would want to fly the Rafale for more than 5 minutes or so anyhow .
Hi Herb,

I can tell you that you will find your own mental limit flying a fast jet for 8 to 10 minutes, depending on your mental conditions.

On saturday at Aspach I was able to do a 10 minutes show flight as I was in good mental conditions.
On sunday afternoon I was mental not so strong, so I decided to land after 8 minutes! The landing was not so perfect as the landing on saturday as I had problems with concentration.

5 to 6 minutes flying with a lot of power is plenty enough.

Regards,

Ulf
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 02:41 PM
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Thanks Ulf I have looked at your weight and power figures, and I'm planning on a similar setup for mine. Would the HW-620's be of any benefit? I suppose you can get the same efflux on a 90mm fan by just constricting the outlet.
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 03:59 PM
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rafale

Herb,
I have in partially assembled in my basement if you want retracts 620s are the only way to go.

Derrek
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 04:38 PM
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Thanks for the info, I was looking at the 600's as well:

http://www.retracts.com/600.htm

The first flight most likely will be bungee launched, with retracts out only for landing. And one GP 3300 pack only (instead of two).

I was considering twin JePe Spiderfans (220 grams each including carbon motors !! ) but most likely would have to wait a looooong time for those. They would shave off a hefty 8 oz (!) over the 30/2 setup, and 4 oz over the 20/3 setup.
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 05:35 PM
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Ref the ducts & retracts, Kevin S scratch-built his ducts to fit, and also arranged his gear's legs to twist and retract. I've already posted pics on this forum somewhere, but should be able to rustle them up again from archives if you'd like a re-print

Ref the GP3300s, I'm with you. I don't know how long they'll last at 48A max and farless on average, but my 2x20-cell packs certainly work well, better output than 22 CP1700 to such an extent that the planes don't notice the extra weight.

Gonna get more GPs.

Gordon

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Old Sep 26, 2003, 08:33 PM
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Herb, I'm not flying one but have one here awaiting assembly.
I have the all composit version. Glass wings and ailerons.
I'm not sure on motors yet but the Kontronik Fun 600-18 on 16 cells each is looking best to me at the moment. That will be 750 watts per side, mabey a little higher useing the GP3300's.

Speaking of waiting a looooong time for fans, .... I have two Schubeler DS-51-FAN- 3ph ready to spin into service.

As for the retracts I was originaly leaning to the EJF but the Spring Air's might be worth the extra weight for the no air/air leak fail safe of gear down peice of mind. What do you think ?
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Old Sep 27, 2003, 12:37 PM
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I am considering various power options. And the all-important crucial weight issue...

The Rafale with the springair retracts was apparently so overweight that it could not takeoff. Each fan/motor setup was reported to weigh 450 grams - ouch . I don't know if that situation has changed in the meantime.

http://www.rc-network.de/cgi-bin/ubb...c;f=5;t=000020

For my setup I have excluded the Fun-600 because of weight. I've considered the Fun-500 but almost certainly will go with the 20/3's saving another 2.4 oz.

For the price of two DS fans I can buy a second Rafale including twin WeMo fans so I will stick to either the JePe or WeMotec fans.

For the price of a LiPo pack I can buy two more Rafales with fans, so for now I will stick with a few $110 28-cell GP packs .
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Old Sep 27, 2003, 12:39 PM
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Ulf likes a long ramp for his:
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Old Sep 27, 2003, 12:50 PM
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Another option that's being considered by some Germans is a single fan (say 120 mm size) instead of a twin setup. You'd have to make your own ducts, but in the end the weight saving will be significant (very roughly about 10 oz),

http://www.rc-network.de/cgi-bin/ubb...5;t=000020;p=4

The cost and complexity is also reduced somewhat, all you need is a single Hacker XXL lawnmower motor & controller.

I am quite convinced by the German's claim that this setup will work well, having seen Robert's Rafale fly well with both twin MF and single Midi.

But the sound is imo totally different. A single fan just does not sound the same as two high pitched twins ....
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Old Sep 27, 2003, 01:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Herb
Thanks Ulf I have looked at your weight and power figures, and I'm planning on a similar setup for mine. Would the HW-620's be of any benefit? I suppose you can get the same efflux on a 90mm fan by just constricting the outlet.
Hi Herb,

there is no advantage to use a HW620E as the intake has plenty enough area for the MidiFan and the standard outlet area of the Rafale (74mm diameter) is also very good for the MidiFan. The outlet has 86.7% of the ring area of the Midifan, which is a very good setup for the Rafale.
If you use a fan, which I have designed use maximum 90% outlet area to get a good efficency. At the HW730E use always maximum 85%.
My fan's are designed for restricted outlet area's.

A very big advantage at my setup on the Rafale is that both engines are feeded by the same battery. You have less cable length at using one high voltage battery instead of two batteries with half the voltage. So less cable weight and less wire losses.
Also a high voltage motor has often a better efficency as a low voltage motor.
Another advantage is that if one engine shut down the second engine gets more voltage as the battery needs only to feed one motor then.

One time we forgot to connect one controller to the battery at the rafale from Matthias.
I started without problems and was able to to a loop from level flight. It was not so fast and the climb out was not so good as with two engines. That is a big safety issue.

Regards,

Ulf
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Old Sep 27, 2003, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Herb
Another option that's being considered by some Germans is a single fan (say 120 mm size) instead of a twin setup. You'd have to make your own ducts, but in the end the weight saving will be significant (very roughly about 10 oz),

http://www.rc-network.de/cgi-bin/ubb...5;t=000020;p=4

The cost and complexity is also reduced somewhat, all you need is a single Hacker XXL lawnmower motor & controller.

I am quite convinced by the German's claim that this setup will work well, having seen Robert's Rafale fly well with both twin MF and single Midi.

But the sound is imo totally different. A single fan just does not sound the same as two high pitched twins ....
Hi Herb,

you can get next year the single engine ducts from Aeronaut!
I don't think that a Hacker XL is strong enough for a 120mm fan.
You need a motor with a Kv of 700(32 cells) to 800RPM/V(28 cells) for the fan from Jörg. That means at a Tango or a HP370/30/A2S.

Regards,

Ulf
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Old Sep 27, 2003, 09:19 PM
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ULF - Would you please post your Rafale set-up here on The Ezone ?? Fans, motors, ESC's. batteries and overall impression of the AeroNaut Rafale ??
I have read through several or the German language Rafale pages that Herb linked to useing Babble Fish but it looses much in the translation.
Thank you.
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Old Sep 28, 2003, 06:05 PM
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I've found another pic of the Aeronaut Rafale, here launched off a JePe style dolly:
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Old Sep 28, 2003, 07:02 PM
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Here's what I understand to be Ulf's latest setup:

Battery is one pack 3S4P and a 4S4P TP8200 in series feeding two HP220/30/A5SP4 in parallel (each motor sucks 25Amps at full throttle). Twin WeMoTec MidFans. Average voltage is about 24Volts at 50Amps. Power around 24 V x 25 A x 2 = 600 W x 2 = 1200 Watts. 3.1kg flying weight.
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Old Sep 28, 2003, 07:12 PM
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JePe looking skeptical at the Rafale , "... now that lead sled would sure fly nicely on two of my fans" ..
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Old Sep 30, 2003, 12:13 PM
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There seems to be a consensus among the Germans who built the Rafale that there just isn't enough space to install retracts that will hold up to prolonged use.

In the twin edf setup the space between the duct and the fuse bottom is only about 1cm ... That's why none of the Germans edf'ers fly it with LG.

On the other hand if you go with the single 120mm fan option, there's a lot more space and retracts seem feasible. Ducting for a single 120mm fan (WeMoTec 750 for ex) should be available from Aeronaut in the spring...
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Old Oct 01, 2003, 09:16 PM
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Ralle Knalle has posted this excellent video of the Rafale:

http://modell-lackierung.de/Daten/Vi...edia%209MB.wmv
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Old Oct 01, 2003, 10:22 PM
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ZOOM baby ZOOM
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Old Oct 02, 2003, 01:18 AM
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Still so many projects to realise ..........

and now this interesting discussion of the Rafale, seams I got hooked .........

I think I have to order one .............

Heiner
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Old Oct 02, 2003, 12:14 PM
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Here's a very nice inflight picture taken at Aspach last week.
I believe this one is the one owned by Matthias Schulze, twin WeMoTec Midi fans:



There seems to be a consensus among all future Rafale owners that we shall meet at Ralle Knalle's garage sometime in the spring, for a weeklong german springtime airbrush celebration party ..
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Old Oct 02, 2003, 02:57 PM
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Found a other link http://home.zonnet.nl/mikokorthout/r...bouwrafale.htm
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Old Oct 02, 2003, 04:17 PM
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Very nice, thanks for the link. Yeah two ultralight JePe fans

The glass work looks really good.

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Old Oct 02, 2003, 04:47 PM
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I can see why you guys go for the composite planes truly outstanding glass work it would take me one year to get to that stage,maybe i am converted from being a balsa basher.

How many hours to get to that stage Herb?
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Old Oct 02, 2003, 04:56 PM
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So you got the all glass one too. I didn't know you had yours already.

That last in flight picture is the color scheme that I want on mine.
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Old Oct 02, 2003, 05:01 PM
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Next time I buy a mouldie I think it will be a Rafale....
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Old Oct 02, 2003, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Herb
Here's a very nice inflight picture taken at Aspach last week.
I believe this one is the single fan one, but I could be wrong.



There seems to be a consensus among all future Rafale owners that we shall meet at Ralle Knalle's garage sometime in the spring, for a weeklong german springtime airbrush celebration party ..
Hi Herb,

that is the Rafale from Matthias(yes, the one with 4.3kg).

Regards,

Ulf
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Old Oct 02, 2003, 05:53 PM
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Ok I get confused, too many Rafales .

So that's Matthias Schultze twin WeMoTec MidiFans, HP motors possibly even Schultze controllers ...

What does the top look like, I assume white? I don't think I'll have to think a lot longer about the color scheme ...



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Old Oct 02, 2003, 07:08 PM
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Were did you find that picture Herb ? That's the scheme I'll use except to leave the AMD.BA off the rudder.
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Old Oct 03, 2003, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Herb
Ok I get confused, too many Rafales .

So that's Matthias Schultze twin WeMoTec MidiFans, HP motors possibly even Schultze controllers ...

What does the top look like, I assume white? I don't think I'll have to think a lot longer about the color scheme ...

Hi Herb,

you can find some more pictures at:
http://www.silentwings.ch/news-downl...s_planes_d.htm

http://www.f5b.dk/Winterthur2002/alb.../edf%20039.htm

http://www.f5b.dk/Winterthur2002/alb.../edf%20001.htm

http://www.f5b.dk/Winterthur2002/alb.../edf%20003.htm

http://www.modellflug.ch/igejs/images/WI02-6.jpg

Best Regards,

Ulf
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Old Oct 03, 2003, 04:47 PM
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Hello Ulf, very nice pictures, thanks. hwh

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Old Oct 04, 2003, 01:55 AM
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EJF Rafale

Well I have a Rafale but its the EJF version its an older kit that I got second hand. The fuselage is nicely done so it must have been made when Robert had his good glass person working for him. It came with the presheeted wings and I am installing a single Midi fan I got the carbon fiber ducting and lasercut formers. I do need to make my own retracts plates and mounts for the spring airs. It should fly well I am not sure which motor to run in it. Any suggestions for motors, there is plenty of room for cells. I am also using full flying canards mixed into the elevons as the guys flying the big Raf use them. I will build this one and install the retracts and even gear doors. The cool thing about the fuse is that no hatches have been cut so I can make my own cuts and hatches. But I am with Haldor my next all molded ship will be a Rafale.
Joe
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Old Oct 04, 2003, 12:40 PM
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@Joe Elston,

your Email adress dosnt work!! I have got all mails back.


@Herb

....the marine version looks verry good.....




Ralle
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Old Oct 04, 2003, 12:49 PM
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Just noted the wingtip missiles are different ...

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Old Oct 04, 2003, 03:15 PM
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Emails

Hi Ralle, I did change my email last month but its been 6 weeks. I dont know why your getting them bounced back I just sent another now and I will send one through the forums.
Joe
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Old Oct 19, 2003, 03:11 PM
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Weight of what's shown without ducting, formers and fans 29.2 oz = 830 grams. Very nice gel coating on all surfaces ....
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Old Oct 19, 2003, 03:14 PM
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pic from front. Quite a small plane wingspan-wise, with a huge cavernous fuse.
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Old Oct 19, 2003, 03:29 PM
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Very nice keep them coming.
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Old Oct 19, 2003, 03:29 PM
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Very nice Herb
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Old Oct 19, 2003, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Herb
Just noted the wingtip missiles are different ...

Hi Herb,

if you compare the picture of the landing:


you will see that the red missile is missing.

The white one had problems with the ignition.

Best Regards,

Ulf
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Old Oct 19, 2003, 03:46 PM
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Herb,

The decals????? all right????
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Old Oct 20, 2003, 11:34 AM
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Ulf, Thanks for the explanation! I think I'll need the missiles too for the first flight!

Ralle Knalle, the decals are wonderful , much better than the original ones! It will be a while though before I am ready to put them on...
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Old Oct 20, 2003, 12:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Herb
Ulf, Thanks for the explanation! I think I'll need the missiles too for the first flight!

Ralle, the decals are wonderful, much better than the original ones! It will be a while though before I am ready to put them on...
Hi Herb,

the red missile(15g) has no payload only a 390g thrust rocket motor with 0.83sec thrust duration and a streamer!. The white one has stars as payload and the rocket motor has only 0.42sec thrust duration. The red one is perfect for self defence of the Rafale , it is very fast(not visible in flight only the smoke you can see). At 50m/s speed of the Rafale I calculated aprox. 250m/s speed of the red missile!

Best Regards,

Ulf
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Old Oct 20, 2003, 01:12 PM
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glassing the rafale

hi rafale fans
I was amazed at how excellent the glassed rafale looks above.
Can anyone direct me to a website that shows how to professionally glass a plane and paint it like in the above pictures
thanks
amit
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Old Oct 20, 2003, 02:12 PM
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in the above posting, i was referring to glassed rafale as seen in Herbs posting.
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Old Oct 20, 2003, 02:15 PM
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Aeronaut Rafale

Herb wow I can believe how light your Rafale is. My EJF single Midi which is about half the size of yours weighs 760 grams with the two ply formers installed but not the ducting! So yours is super light I think the next molded plane I will buy will be the big Rafale. Herb is there room for Mini Spring Air retracts in the Aeronaut Rafale? Are you making the canards fully functional for pitch control? I am on my Rafale mixed with the Elevons.
Thanks Herb
Joe
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Old Oct 20, 2003, 06:56 PM
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I got my Fun 600-18 and Beat 55-6-18 's for my Schubeler fans today. Now I have sone insperation.
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Old Oct 21, 2003, 03:09 AM
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Aeronaut should seriously consider investing the money in either buying or renting a CNC cut machine for the ply formers and the several other hardwood parts...

They are made out of just about the hardest plywood known to man and cutting through it is a major feat, at least without a well setup wood milling shop. After two hours of work I was finally able to pull one former out, without any finishing yet...
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Old Oct 21, 2003, 03:43 AM
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Narrow down a power plant yet Herb? I just watched that Vid and WOW! awesoem plane. Gotta put that on the list.


Barry
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Old Oct 21, 2003, 04:01 AM
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Hallo,

I ordered last week, hoping when I am back from Ireland next week, the Rafale is almost waiting for me.

How long will it take to bring her in the air out of the box? (without painting)

Heiner
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Old Oct 21, 2003, 04:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Herb
Aeronaut should seriously consider investing the money in either buying or renting a CNC cut machine for the ply formers and the several other hardwood parts...

They are made out of just about the hardest plywood known to man and cutting through it is a major feat, at least without a well setup wood milling shop. After two hours of work I was finally able to pull one former out, without any finishing yet...
Hi Herb,

I told the boss of aeronaut about the pain at cutting the former in Sinsheim this year. He was asking the guy which was responsible for the selection of the wood and the guy replied that he thought that it need to be very strong so he choosen the hardest wood he could get.

The electrical saw(250W) needed 4 cooling pauses, because it became to hot. My electrical Dremel contour sander(220V!) needed 3 cooling pauses and I needed a lot sanding tubes!

Best Regards and good luck at sanding,

Ulf
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Old Oct 21, 2003, 11:29 AM
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Yes it's ridicolous. It already costed me about $20 in Dremel replacement parts, and I only cut out one plywood part out of six ...
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Old Oct 21, 2003, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Herb
Yes it's ridicolous. It already costed me about $20 in Dremel replacement parts, and I only cut out one plywood part out of six ...
Sounds like you need a jigsaw and a drum sander on a drill press. Need help?
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Old Oct 21, 2003, 12:35 PM
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Thanks I have both , it's the finishing part that takes the most time as the plywood wood is quite hard & thick.
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Old Oct 21, 2003, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Herb
Yes it's ridicolous. It already costed me about $20 in Dremel replacement parts, and I only cut out one plywood part out of six ...
Hi Herb,

the two part looking like a flat w are not needed(they want to reinforce one of the main former with these two parts!

Best Regards,

Ulf
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Old Oct 21, 2003, 05:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by monkamarm2000
Narrow down a power plant yet Herb?
Not yet although I already have some ideas, just running the numbers for now. I am planning on a setup that will weigh no more than 90-95 oz (2.6 kg) with 16-18 GP 3300's. Total Amps below 60. Prefer lighter setup to heavier, at the expense of duration.

The twin fans look good though
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Old Oct 21, 2003, 05:51 PM
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Awesome

Herb, those fans look awesome installed in the former. Your thinking of twin Midi Fans? Or do you have any other ideas up your sleeve. You need to install a pair of high power Kontroniks or Hacker now.

You could always load the plane with 58 cells like the one that is flying in Europe on that amount of cells
I have no idea where he stuffed them all at but I hear its real fast

Just kidding Herb, thats far to many cells it must land like a brick

PS: You have mail
Joe
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Old Oct 21, 2003, 06:43 PM
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Herb are they Midi fans ? Whats with the color.

Joe - That 58 cell Raf is a one off homebuilt. Larger that the AeroNaut Raf.
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Old Oct 21, 2003, 06:46 PM
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Makes Sense

I see Kevin, I was wondering how he gets all those cells in that plane. It sure is fast from what I have read. Those look like Midi Fans to me Kevin. Looks like Herb may have painted them?
Joe
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Old Oct 21, 2003, 07:06 PM
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Twins does look cool. And I've been leaning that way myself lately on lighter setup's. Going light worked beyond my expectations in the M.E, and worked well in the Midi Mirage. I was pouring over the German Groups thread last night trying to decide if a single was even a worth while option. It would be nice to have just one fan, one pack, easily powered by Lipo's, not to mention the $$ aspect, still deciding myself.


And watch that paint it adds weight! LOL

Barry
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Old Oct 21, 2003, 07:59 PM
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Those are special high performance fans, I think they are labelled SE for Schwaebische Edition or Special Edition I'm not sure but they should fly the Rafale very well ....
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Last edited by Herb; Oct 21, 2003 at 08:05 PM.
Old Oct 22, 2003, 06:09 PM
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Re: Awesome

Quote:
Originally posted by Joe Elston
Herb, those fans look awesome ... PS: You have mail Joe
Joe, if you Internet Service Provider does not comply with sensible spam control policies, your e-mail will not reach me.

If you have any questions or comments feel free to post them here, or in a separate thread. If it's in regard to flying, we fly jets about every saturday at Fairview 12-5 pm. Sundays we leave to the brushless zagi burnt plastic smell wingo skyscooter crowd.

If you'll stop by someday you just might catch two JePe A-4 flying formation, or even five high powered MiG-15's. We usuallly have two bungee ramps setup, but lots of electrics rog on the flat dirt part of the field . And of course you could see the occasional foam parkflier jet getting sucked into a jepe fan ...
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Old Oct 22, 2003, 06:24 PM
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Email

Hi Herb, I dont have any problems getting through to anyone else. I just sent an email please let me if it went through. I had some questions for you that I didnt want to post to the world so if you would please return the email I would appreciate it.
Thank You.

PS: I will have my Jepe F16 in Thunderbird trim we can fly formation
Joe
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Old Oct 22, 2003, 06:47 PM
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Herb,

I replied to you're email a few days ago. It may be that you never got it since I didn't hear back. Please let me know, I have road runner and that may be the problem. I have no control over that issue if. It's the only highspeed provider I can get where I am.

Thanks Herb,

Steve
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Old Oct 22, 2003, 07:27 PM
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Road Runner

Herb, like Steve I too have Road Runner and use Outlook I cant figure out why you dont get my emails. I wanted to ask you a question that I did not want to broadcast to the whole world but I guess if I cannot get through to you then I will handle it myself. Can you tell me what you mean by

Quote:
Joe, if you Internet Service Provider does not comply with sensible spam control policies, your e-mail will not reach me.
I dont understand unless like Steve our ISP wont work with yours? I have no idea but its frustrating. If you can tell us what we are doing wrong then I will fix it otherwisw I wont worry about it.
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Last edited by Joe Elston; Oct 22, 2003 at 07:46 PM.
Old Oct 23, 2003, 06:54 PM
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I think more to the point Joe it's nothing you can do it's the fact that your on that provider. Like AOL alot of pweople dont want anything from or to do with them. If AOL is in the addy then it's diverted right away. I have same problem with some IRC's cause I used to be earthlink. They dont dislike me personally but it's a big hassle for there system to dael with my Earthlink stuff so there better off just blocking it all.
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 07:15 PM
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The glasswork is done well. Here's the fuse:
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Last edited by Herb; Nov 13, 2003 at 12:28 PM.
Old Oct 23, 2003, 07:17 PM
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business end
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 07:18 PM
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clean joints
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 07:20 PM
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hollow molded wings with spars
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 07:20 PM
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Awesome

I need to get myself one of those and ditch my EJF version It looks great Herb are you installing retracts in it or will it be a belly lander. Do you know how much the fuselage weighs by chance I would like to compare it to the weight of my Rafale.
Thanks Joe
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 07:22 PM
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hollow molded canards
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 07:23 PM
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hollow moulded elevons
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 07:23 PM
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Wow! What a nice job they do on it. I really like the way they setup the detachable section so that the root plates extend over it for supoort. Do they use those extensions for mounting the rear part also?

Barry
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 07:24 PM
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hollow moulded fin
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 07:27 PM
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supplied fiberglass-foam-fiberglass sandwich ducting
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 07:29 PM
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ducting detail
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 07:30 PM
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some lasercut wood, some you have to cut yourself (house still smells of burned wood)
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 07:32 PM
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hollow molded wing, tip
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 07:36 PM
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Wow

Your Killing me Herb that is one beautiful airplane which motors are you planning to run in the special HP Midi Fans? Would you compare its price to that of a fully loaded Jepe A4 or F16 or would it be more? And does anyone have the url for the website I cant get over how pretty that molding work is, thats turbine class work its a very sharp plane Herb I am sure that you will have a blast with it.
Thanks Joe
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 07:37 PM
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Ready for takeoff ? Not quite ... Got to open the garage door first
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 07:39 PM
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herb
where did u get this rafale composite from? I would like to buy one. Did u get one from EJF?
thanks
amit
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 07:40 PM
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Canards

Herb, are you using full flying canards in the plane. I have read about a couple of people that have and like them because you get better pitch control?
Joe
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 07:49 PM
The blade numbers go up to 11
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Herb, can you tell what the green core material in the sandwich layup is? It looks like Divinicell or similar PVC foam (heavy!) - how dent-proof is the skin? Thanks

Stu Maxwell
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 07:54 PM
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The canards are designed to be operable. One single servo or two. They do help slow down the Rafale on landings when the weight exceeds 4 kg or so. I am still debating which way to go. The glasswork is, as discussed already earlier in the thread, very light.
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 08:02 PM
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never mind
i see that this is a big version, much bigger than i want for now.
I thought this was the composite sold from ejf.
so why dont u put a turbine in it, much more powerful than electric engines.
amit
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 08:09 PM
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l/r wing fabrication & symmetry :
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 08:26 PM
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Taw, sorry forgot your ezone handle size comparison.
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 08:51 PM
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ducted fan
may I ask, where did u get the rafale smaller version in background. I ve being trying for months to get one, but have to wait for EJF to start molding them in glass. thanks
amit
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 08:58 PM
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Barry and Joe,

the size is only slightly bigger than the EJF one (41 in ws vs 33 in ws), and only slightly larger than the JePe A-4 (36 in ws).

The Aeronaut home page is here:

http://www.aeronaut.de/de/flugmodelle/rafale.htm

The glasswork quality is comparable to JePe's, but the thickness is fairly uniform, while the Dutch Master is very careful in putting the strength more where it's really needed .

I ordered mine directly from Germany, it took less than two weeks to have it delivered.
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Last edited by Herb; Oct 23, 2003 at 09:01 PM.
Old Oct 23, 2003, 09:13 PM
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that one from germany looks a lot bigger than EJF version, especially in length, not so much in ws, and weight is more.
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 09:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kevin Murray
... That 58 cell Raf is a one off homebuilt. Larger that the AeroNaut Raf.
Yes, the 58-cell one is 47 in ws, quite a bit larger than the Aeronaut one, and with larger 108 mm fans as well.

http://www.modellflugportal.de/jets_groba.htm
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 09:48 PM
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ductedfann
how did u get the composite so soon from ejf?
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 09:49 PM
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herb
the rafale u have there is certainly a monster compared to smaller rafale, with 58 cells and 2 shuluber fans with hacker motors? wow.
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Old Oct 23, 2003, 09:50 PM
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is this the real size of your rafale?
http://www.modellflugportal.de/frame_jet.htm


very big, too big for me
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