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Old Aug 05, 2012, 10:25 AM
Bob S.
France, Auvergne, Luneau
Joined Aug 2008
81 Posts
Thanks, Andy, will do. But all the same, is the theory correct? SHOULD I wish to adjust the motor/prop: veering to the RIGHT is corrected by rotating the motor unit CLOCKWISE seen from above? I have read so much about thrust in these forums, but nowhere did I find in which direction. (perhaps it is so obvious, sorry)
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 10:39 AM
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Andy2No's Avatar
Manchester, UK
Joined Nov 2005
3,830 Posts
Yes, that's what you'd do, Bo43.

Imagine the prop shaft extended out past the nose of the plane. Pushing on it from behind has the same effect as pulling on it from the front, and it's probably easier to picture the effect of pulling on it. If the imaginary extended shaft passes the left side of the nose it will tend to pull the nose over to the right as you give it more power. It needs to do that to some extent, to counter the torque of the prop causing it to yaw to the left. Usually that amount is just a couple of degrees. If it's too much it will make it yaw to the right, but only under power.

To decide if your (right) thrust angle is correct you just need to get the plane up to a decent height, point the nose down a little and cut the power. Trim it so it glides in a nice straight line, not sinking too quickly for comfort, but fast enough to keep up the airspeed. Now start the motor again and see if you need different stick inputs to keep it in a straight line (but get some more height before you experiment). Ideally, you won't need any - which means the amount of right thrust angle is perfect. Quite often it won't be, but if it's close enough it might be better to just put up with it and trim the plane so it's comfortable to fly.


Getting the vertical thrust angle right isn't any harder, but you probably will have to compromise and just get it comfortable, rather than perfect. If it noses down dramatically as you apply power, you need to raise the tail end of the prop shaft, e.g. by putting a wedge on the motor mount that's wider at the bottom, or using washers on the lower screws/bolts that hold the motor to the mount.
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 11:30 AM
Electric Coolhunter
Thomas B's Avatar
United States, TX, Fort Worth
Joined Jun 2000
14,640 Posts
The little Icon had it secound water outing yesterday at our clubsSsummer Float Fly. It really did a GREAT job handing the wavelets in the 10-12mph winds.

No real issues with it dipping a wingtip, even with the stock sponsons. The wind was on to the shore, so was easy to takeoff straight into the wind after releasing the model. We were landing at an angle to the shore. The little Icon woudl occasionally dip a wingtip in the crosswind, but never had any issue sailing it around a little with control input and throttle to get it pointed into the wind or straght back to shore. Proper application of aileron and rudder would get the wingtip out of the water and back to wings level for another takeoff run.

Was getting a fair amount of spray on the prop as the model accelerated to getting on the step, but not much once on the step.
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 02:33 PM
Bob S.
France, Auvergne, Luneau
Joined Aug 2008
81 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy2No View Post
Yes, that's what you'd do, Bo43.

Imagine the prop shaft extended out past the nose of the plane. Pushing on it from behind has the same effect as pulling on it from the front, and it's probably easier to picture the effect of pulling on it. If the imaginary extended shaft passes t
Andy,
Thanks a lot. That's given me a lot to chew over. Will wait for the flight tests before considering a thrust correction.
Bob
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 06:40 PM
Don't Panic!
GavDorro's Avatar
Australia, WA, Baldivis
Joined Jul 2011
291 Posts
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Originally Posted by Thomas B View Post
Sorry to hear that you got a real lemon of of a 1.09m Icon. Mine has been delightful with no significant issues. Still flying on stock electronics, after 25-30 flights, with two off the water.

Mine has a tendacy to dive some under full power, but I carry about 3/32" up elevator trim all the time and it does fine with that, with only a faint tendancy to dive while at lower airspeeds with full throttle applied. Seems to be about the right amount of elevator for the approach with power off, as well. A slight throttling back makes it fly level at normal flying speeds.

A thrust ine adjustment might help with the power/pitch issue. I would try angling the motor down a little towards the back, to give effective up thrust, but some will argue for downthrust (motor angled up at the back) with the motor being so far back.

Hope you get it all sorted out. It can be a delightful little water skimmer.
Thanks for the input Thomas. Am flying it with up elevator trimmed in.
Took it out again over the weekend. Tried running 1800maH Turnigys in it where was previously running 2200maH Nanotechs. Lower power, lower C, lower weight and it seemed to fly much better?! Never had a plane where too much power was a problem before this one!!

Did have the battery further back into the tray as well, so COG could be more of a factor than thrust angle, in my case? Like a few others here, I also had to reglue the motor mount before the maiden.

I would strongly recommend maidening this one on grass, minus the wheels, before you commit to the water. So, much easier to practice smooth, skim landings when you know there will be no swimming involved if you bounce the landing.

So I am starting to warm to this one, BUT still waiting for HK to come through to complete the build.
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 01:12 AM
Electric Coolhunter
Thomas B's Avatar
United States, TX, Fort Worth
Joined Jun 2000
14,640 Posts
I fly my little Icon with a 1300 3 cell battery placed in the middle of the radio tray under the canopy. I think anything larger battery wise would affect the nice flying qualities of this little model. It is short on wing area and does not need any increase in wing loading.
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 06:03 AM
MassiveOverkill's Avatar
United States, FL, Melbourne
Joined Feb 2011
5,462 Posts
If I recall, the weight of your battery was 122g. My 1800 is 138g .........you think that's still too heavy?

I'm thinking of putting conrol horns in the flaps with control rods and putting another control horn at the end glued to the wing with easy connectors on either end and just manually having flaps on. I don't care about going fast.........actually the slowest I can make the plane go and not stall\still be stable would be my goal. I guess I could also just surface mount flap 5g servos to the wing (maybe on top with curved pieces of foam in front for aerodymanics.

BTW the tail is very weak. I crashed on the water from about 6' high (on a take off) and it cracked it. I plan on re-gluing it but also reinforcing it with carbon rod...........I'll do land training from here on out as inconvenient as it is (my rescue boat and fishing pole do just fine in retrieving the plane)

The glue they supply is really good as far as being really sticky, but also not being permanent. Does anyone know if this is standard hobby glue that can be bought at your LHS? Hopefully not as viscous though...........I think my tube was partially dried out.
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Last edited by MassiveOverkill; Aug 06, 2012 at 06:09 AM.
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 10:33 AM
Electric Coolhunter
Thomas B's Avatar
United States, TX, Fort Worth
Joined Jun 2000
14,640 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassiveOverkill View Post
If I recall, the weight of your battery was 122g. My 1800 is 138g .........you think that's still too heavy?

........
The glue they supply is really good as far as being really sticky, but also not being permanent. Does anyone know if this is standard hobby glue that can be bought at your LHS? Hopefully not as viscous though...........I think my tube was partially dried out.
My Turnigy 3S 1800 mAh packs are more like 167 grams, which are 55grams/1.55 oz heaver than my Sky 1300 3s 40C packs at 122 grams. That 1.5 oz is a considerable amount on a model this small with the rather limited wing area. If yours is really only 138 grams, that is probably not a big deal but consider what that .5 oz is as a percentage of the overall model weight.

If you want your model to fly as slow as possible without stalling, first principals are to keep it as light as possible.

Glue wise, any of the good Uhu type glues work fine...real Uhu, if you can find it, Foam Tac (Depron USA and some hobby shops) , Beacon Fabritac from Walmart.
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Old Aug 06, 2012, 10:45 AM
MassiveOverkill's Avatar
United States, FL, Melbourne
Joined Feb 2011
5,462 Posts
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Originally Posted by Thomas B View Post
My Turnigy 3S 1800 mAh packs are more like 167 grams, which are 55grams/1.55 oz heaver than my Sky 1300 3s 40C packs at 122 grams. That 1.5 oz is a considerable amount on a model this small with the rather limited wing area. If yours is really only 138 grams, that is probably not a big deal but consider what that .5 oz is as a percentage of the overall model weight.

If you want your model to fly as slow as possible without stalling, first principals are to keep it as light as possible.

Glue wise, any of the good Uhu type glues work fine...real Uhu, if you can find it, Foam Tac (Depron USA and some hobby shops) , Beacon Fabritac from Walmart.
Thanks Thomas. I actually weighed my 1800 pack, and it's a true 138g. What about running with flaps on until I get my skills up? Thanks also for the glue recommendations.
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Old Aug 07, 2012, 05:09 AM
Bob S.
France, Auvergne, Luneau
Joined Aug 2008
81 Posts
Splash Guard MassiveOverkill

[QUOTE=MassiveOverkill;22347107]

I cut away part of the front mounting tab to make it easier to install the cockpit cowl with the clear splash guard installed, which also got trimmed:

You can see while inserting it the splash guard doesn’t gouge the front fascia (it did before the mod):
[IMG]http://img.photob

At last I see an answer to my problem with the celluloid, but....
mounted like that in the foto, water will trickle down the windscreen, and not finding any other exit, will slowly fill the compartment, surely.
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Old Aug 07, 2012, 06:33 AM
MassiveOverkill's Avatar
United States, FL, Melbourne
Joined Feb 2011
5,462 Posts
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Originally Posted by Bo43 View Post

At last I see an answer to my problem with the celluloid, but....
mounted like that in the foto, water will trickle down the windscreen, and not finding any other exit, will slowly fill the compartment, surely.
I haven't found a lick of water inside my compartment with about 10 minutes of water taxiing. The water deflector is glued to the top lexan canopy so water can't trickle in unless your bird is upside down.

You really need to find a solution to your anti-drainback valve though as it's important to keeping the compartment dry. Contact Hobby King and see if they'll send you a replacement valve or even see if that valve is sold seperately from other Icon vendors (I'm sure they all have it).
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Old Aug 07, 2012, 09:02 AM
Bob S.
France, Auvergne, Luneau
Joined Aug 2008
81 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by MassiveOverkill View Post
I haven't found a lick of water inside my compartment with about 10 minutes of water taxiing. The water deflector is glued to the top lexan canopy so water can't trickle in unless your bird is upside down.

You really need to find a solution to your anti-drainback valve though as it's important to keeping the compartment dry. Contact Hobby King and see if they'll send you a replacement valve or even see if that valve is sold seperately from other Icon vendors (I'm sure they all have it).
Ah, I see, the celluloid is actually glued at its top.
My last Canadair CL-415 did not have an anti-drain valve, so I wonder whether this is a speciality of the A5. Do you get water in the compartment?
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Old Aug 07, 2012, 09:33 AM
MassiveOverkill's Avatar
United States, FL, Melbourne
Joined Feb 2011
5,462 Posts
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Originally Posted by Bo43 View Post
Ah, I see, the celluloid is actually glued at its top.
My last Canadair CL-415 did not have an anti-drain valve, so I wonder whether this is a speciality of the A5. Do you get water in the compartment?
Only when I crash upside down

I've only been airborn for about 5 seconds. The other 9 minutes and 55 seconds have been trying to taxi on water (yes, I give up, wheels are going on for land-based training and\or flap implementation).

When I open up her up you can see water has gotten inside, but has immediately drained. My water tub test showed water draining without issues.

I would unplug the silicon you put in your tube and see if your check ball was sticking.....mine was initially but I just poked it with a stick and made sure it could move back and forth. Blowing on it like you did may have actually lodged the ball in the block water position, preventing it from draining when water got inside.

You also have to make sure that there are no leaks around the tube, which mine had, but was easily fixed with the supplied glue they give you.
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Old Aug 07, 2012, 09:52 AM
Bob S.
France, Auvergne, Luneau
Joined Aug 2008
81 Posts
Yes, will do. I think I will also keep to wheelless, long grass field training for some time until proficient.
By the way, any idea WHERE the water entered your plane? Cracks in hull, windscreen?
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Old Aug 07, 2012, 09:57 AM
MassiveOverkill's Avatar
United States, FL, Melbourne
Joined Feb 2011
5,462 Posts
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Originally Posted by Bo43 View Post
Yes, will do. I think I will also keep to wheelless, long grass field training for some time until proficient.
By the way, any idea WHERE the water entered your plane? Cracks in hull, windscreen?
Definately while it was upside down in the water so the wing\top of the cowling. The detachable mock cockpit can fill with water too, so before your first water flight, I'd do the tub test with it to make sure water can't get into it as it will add alot of drag if you have to do a water rescue with a rescue boat\fishing line.

I didn't get any water entry when taxiing upright, bone-dry.
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