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Old Sep 26, 2003, 05:08 AM
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As if we needed another reason to hate France

Have a peek at this:

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/europe....ap/index.html

This guy is pretty amazing, particularly his book.

Matt
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 05:21 AM
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Please note - the topic title is tounge-in-cheek. You cannot hold an entire nation responsible for the acts of one fool.

Matt
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 06:27 AM
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ROFL, it appears that some French understand the free world as much as they understand personal hygine.LOL
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 07:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Luxor
ROFL, it appears that some French understand the free world as much as they understand personal hygine.LOL
That would appear to be the equivalent of close to 60 million ad hominem attacks.
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 07:51 AM
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That's a bit heavy isn't it luxor?
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 08:22 AM
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Actually, that deck is probably closer to reality than many of us would like to admit. While I don't discount the atrocities committed by Sadam and his associates, something has to be said for the war pretexts and misinformation (lies) propogated by the Bush administration.

At least Osama and the like are honest about their intentions - destroy pretty much everything. But, with governments and politicians, you never know what the real motivation is (usually $$).

I think this deck is equally as apropriate as the Iraqi deck.
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 11:17 AM
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The author of this deck of cards published a book claiming that no plane ever hit the pentagon on 9-11.

Guess my friends didn't really die, then.

Face it, the guy is a complete and total idiot.

Matt
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 11:32 AM
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What's with the France-hating anyways?? Just because their government did not believe it was yet time for war in Iraq and stood up against America is not betrayal. As an independent nation they had the right to examine the evidence and come to their own conclusions. Were they wrong? Was America under imminent threat? The "coalition" was only three nations - most of the world's nations sided with France - are they now enemies of America too? The worst the French media did was call your president a "cowboy" for his eagerness to go to war. How did the American media treat France? You now hate France because you were told to.
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 12:35 PM
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The title was tongue in cheek. The entire French people are not culpable for the frank stupidity of the author od this deck.

I don't hate France because I was told to. I don't think much of them as an 'ally', but this i hardly the first time the French have shied away from conflict. Witness their refusal to let US aircraft overfly French airspace during the UN-sanctioned strikes on Libya.

Matt
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 12:44 PM
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Many France supporters conveniently forget that the French have engaged in terrorism themselves. Witness the 1985 bombing of the Rainbow Warrior, resulting in the death of a photographer.

The bombing was carried out by members of the DGSE, the French intelligence service.

Matt
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 12:51 PM
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Well Matt you are right about them being a poor ally. They have NEVER been an ally of AYN one. Well unless they needed a little help with the germans
But every body needs to give this hating the French thing up. Thats just how they are and have allways been. There the French for gods sake

All though I would say next time we {every body not just the US} let the gremans keep em.

Lee
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 01:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by MattLarson29
Many France supporters conveniently forget that the French have engaged in terrorism themselves. Witness the 1985 bombing of the Rainbow Warrior, resulting in the death of a photographer.

The bombing was carried out by members of the DGSE, the French intelligence service.

Matt
There are very few major powers that have no skeletons in their cupboards
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 01:36 PM
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Matt, you might want to be carefull what Nation you accuse of terrorism, the hands of the U.S. are not exactly clean now are they?

While I agree that the Rainbow Warrior incident was a horrible act of violence "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" comes to mind here.



T.D.
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 02:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Tony D.
Matt, you might want to be carefull what Nation you accuse of terrorism, the hands of the U.S. are not exactly clean now are they?

While I agree that the Rainbow Warrior incident was a horrible act of violence "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" comes to mind here.

T.D.
It's easy to compare one violent conflict with another and "declare" them equal in terms of violence (terrorism?).

Buy you would have to be an unabashed America hater if you are going to suggest that the MOTIVES for armed conflicts are in any way similar. And it is motives that define the difference between opposing sides in a conflict, and who the "real" terrorists are.

Let's try these on for size:
America went to war in Afghanistan and Iraq in order to kill every Muslim that lives in those countries BECAUSE they are Muslims...
OR...
Radical Muslims' stated attempt is to kill every living person on this planet that refuses to convert to Islam.
Only one of those statements is true? Which one?
Who would you suggest is the "terrorist"? After all, both sides are killing people on the other side. But again, who's the terrorist.

or how about:
In the 1990 Gulf War, America waged war in order to acquire all of the oil assets of Iraq and the Middle East...
OR
Hussein made a move to take over Kuwait in order to acquire all of the oil assets of Kuwait.
History has shown that the first scenario was not true (even though leftists are still try to sell it) while the second scenario isn't disputed by anyone, even the left, so it is patently true.
In both cases, you could claim that each side were terrorists (and many do), yet who's motives clearly determine who the "good guys" were and who the "bad guys" were.
When we stopped the Iraquis from there brutal aggression, we went home. Oh wait, we didn't go home, we stayed to put out all the oil well fires that Iraquis started... shame on us. What were we thinking.

And let's keep going:
In the current Gulf War, those on the Democrat/Socialist/left are beating there dead horse position that it is the Americans who are the aggressors and that the Iraqis are being victimized by the US.
Yet, tens of thousands of graves have been uncovered full of Iraqui citizens who have been brutally tortured and executed for simply saying unagreeable things about the Hussein government.
But the US are the bad guys, right? Yea.. riigghhht.

As a group, one of the difficulties that liberals have is to bring themselves to make a real honest-to-goodness judgement about things. They are terrified of being "judgemental". There's no right or wrong, it's all just a blurry shade of "whatever feels good".
So they don't make a judgement where one is clearly due.. they just sit back and avoid that responsibility by declaring that "they're all terrorists".

Highflight
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Old Sep 26, 2003, 03:31 PM
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[[[Radical Muslims' stated attempt is to kill every living person on this planet that refuses to convert to Islam.
Only one of those statements is true? Which one? ]]]

Both wrong. Even the radical muslims had logical beefs with the west. military presence in their homeland. longstanding manipulation of their countries. propping evil regimes. designing an economic order that deems arabs irrelevant. siding with israel regardless of justice.

[[[Hussein made a move to take over Kuwait in order to acquire all of the oil assets of Kuwait.]]]

Wrong again. Hussein went to the UN on several occasions complaining about US calls for saudi flooding of oil on the market, sidedrilling of their oilfields by kuwait[zapata oil, formerly headed by none other than George Bush], what they called economic warfare by kuwait. He even consulted with his ally, the US before he moved on it and was assured of noninterference by april gillespie. hussein also has valid reason for having a problem with the arbitrary borders layed down by the west, designed to capitalize on tribal friction to control arabs.

[[[Yet, tens of thousands of graves have been uncovered full of Iraqui citizens who have been brutally tortured and executed for simply saying unagreeable things about the Hussein government.]]]

You really need to study your history. Those tens of thousands were encouraged to revolt by George Bush and in doing so went on a killing rampage in small villages. Hussein rightly sent his military against them. He was even given special permission to fly choppers to do so. When those tens of thousands did revolt, they were given the distinct impression that George would back them. A lot like the bay of pigs. Those tens of thousands were murderous hoodlums. This is all history.

[[[As a group, one of the difficulties that liberals have is to bring themselves to make a real honest-to-goodness judgement about things. They are terrified of being "judgemental". There's no right or wrong, it's all just a blurry shade of "whatever feels good]]]

I have no problem judging that we, the US should never have propped up that thug Hussein in the first place. Our ousting of his democratically elected predecessor to back another murderous strongman was wrong. We shouldnt have backed the mujahadeen[later the taliban], which spawned Bin Laden. We shouldnt have backed Noriega, who killed many of his people. We shouldnt have backed Mushareff, who will undoubtedly become a
monster that would make Sadaam jealous. Indeed, he Does have nukes. We shouldnt be trying to oust Venezuela's pres. to control that vital countries oil supply. We shouldnt be giving military aid to the murderous Columbian gov. Nor Turkey's, nor Indonesia's. Most if not all of these places have greatly to do with oil. All are dangerous and costly to deal with when they become monsters and kill many of their countrymen. Why wouldnt those peoples hate us for meddling. Read history, dont depend on Rush to do your thinking.
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