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Old Mar 04, 2012, 08:50 PM
September 2010
Outback Joe's Avatar
United States, OR, Lakeview
Joined Oct 2009
332 Posts
Sitting here and looking at this plane I don't see enough control surface for elevator and aileron running them separately.

If this is truly a wing why not treat it like all the other wings that I have and run elevons. I may be breaking an unknown rule but this should be fine running 2 servos with a reverse module on one for elevons. Since everyone has just left I think I am going to spend some time and set it up. Maybe having another day to think things over was a good thing. All I can do is rough up some foam in a not so sweet landing.

If anyone can think of something that I may have missed please chime in, like the rest of you I hate to ruin a new airplane.

I have the feeling that we are on our own as far as setting up CG and control surfaces.

Joe C.
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Old Mar 05, 2012, 12:04 AM
CNC Cutter
birdofplay's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Dec 2005
8,709 Posts
Hey Joe,

I know where you are coming from, but, this is a higher aspect ratio wing than a Zagi, and
I would try doing some Mixing to achieve the effect you want,
so that you can go back and forth to verify your thinking at the flip of a switch.

There's a CG calc at the top of the Wing forum in a sticky.

I found on the big foamy electric FOX that it needed a LOT more throw than was actually
available, so the group re hinged and moved the servos for authority.

Now with a Wing I expect a bit more surface sensitivity so I'm just going to do a normal
throws with a little mechanical differential on the ailerons.
Probably Mix the Ailerons into the Elevators as stated above.
AS much rudder as I can get out of it.

With all the detailed help and informative pictures on the instructions,
I cant imagine why you'd say we are on our own ;-} sigh ..............

Don't rush going to the field and hard as it may be at this time of year,
try to find some unmowed thick grass to test over !

L8r

Bob
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Old Mar 05, 2012, 12:19 AM
Field of Dreams Flyer
Mikemynameis's Avatar
San Pedro,Ca
Joined Sep 2004
9,312 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by birdofplay View Post
Hey Joe,

I know where you are coming from, but, this is a higher aspect ratio wing than a Zagi, and
I would try doing some Mixing to achieve the effect you want,
so that you can go back and forth to verify your thinking at the flip of a switch.

There's a CG calc at the top of the Wing forum in a sticky.

I found on the big foamy electric FOX that it needed a LOT more throw than was actually
available, so the group re hinged and moved the servos for authority.

Now with a Wing I expect a bit more surface sensitivity so I'm just going to do a normal
throws with a little mechanical differential on the ailerons.
Probably Mix the Ailerons into the Elevators as stated above.
AS much rudder as I can get out of it.

With all the detailed help and informative pictures on the instructions,
I cant imagine why you'd say we are on our own ;-} sigh ..............

Don't rush going to the field and hard as it may be at this time of year,
try to find some unmowed thick grass to test over !

L8r

Bob
It has plenty of elevator but you could mix aileron with the elevator for more turning because when I had mine I had to use as much throw as posible to turn it. The best thing to do is do a powered off test throw to check cg
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Old Mar 05, 2012, 11:37 AM
September 2010
Outback Joe's Avatar
United States, OR, Lakeview
Joined Oct 2009
332 Posts
To sweep or not to sweep

Well I was hoping that today would be half way nice and its not working out that way. Its windy and cool and looks like rain and snow is in the forecast for the next 2 days.

birdofplay and twiztidbowler, thanks for your suggestions!!! I have a nice place to test the glider once the weather changes into something favorable. I like the idea of using differing mixes. I have the plane set up on my DX6i right now but may move to the DX7 that has better mixing capabilities.

This wing is so different than any of the others that I have since the aspect ratio is so much different. The thinnest wing that I have is the RiteWing 48 inch Lighting but its a much different wing. The thing that I see as a big problem is that the wing is not swept back. Mine is straight as an arrow from tip to tip at the leading edge. The sweep seems to gives the wing more stability. I think that my Assassin has the most sweep and has a very thick x-section, its the only wing that does not need any vertical stabs or fins of any kind. So I am wondering if we need to introduce some sweep with new horizontal fins? Since its nose heavy something at the rear of the fuse or on the vertical tail?

This is all moot till I try a test flight and see what the real problems might be. I would love a wind tunnel, maybe since NASA is going out of the Space Biz, I can get one at a deep discount
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Old Mar 05, 2012, 12:51 PM
CNC Cutter
birdofplay's Avatar
United States, IN, Indianapolis
Joined Dec 2005
8,709 Posts
NASA is only going out of the Space business because
Obama wants to spread spread the wealth around !
Which is not the Constituionaly defined roll of the Government.

As a species we will DIE on this planet if we dont figure a way to get off of it !

Space research is the only place that Govt investment actually paid a dividend.

Our Hobby Included !

We are being doomed to Blade Runner City life, only worse.
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Old Mar 05, 2012, 04:57 PM
September 2010
Outback Joe's Avatar
United States, OR, Lakeview
Joined Oct 2009
332 Posts
Birdofplay, I see much the same thing in where we are going. Its really sad for someone like me to see this crap happen to NASA, I was raised by parents that were deeply involved in the Mercury thru Apollo 14 missions. It tears me apart to see what has happened, I will let it go with I LIKE YOUR ATTITUDE!!!
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Old Mar 09, 2012, 07:27 PM
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USA, CA,
Joined May 2001
1,744 Posts
My New Red and White Pioneer **

Hi Guys,
I deceided to change the looking of mine, so I added some balsa the top of the fine to make it look right!
Then some red and white Paint., re- did the canopy in Blue Met. Now the finish
up installing the servos and covers, and find the CG I should have moved the firewall back 1/4" when I had the chance, so the spinner would be flush with the nose!
Joe
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Old Mar 10, 2012, 03:39 PM
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USA, CA,
Joined May 2001
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Hi Guys,
Any one get there Pioneer Airborn as yet!! ? How about you Joe, I am geetting close and I sure would like to here from some one that is Flying theres right now!! Please
Joe
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Old Mar 11, 2012, 11:59 AM
September 2010
Outback Joe's Avatar
United States, OR, Lakeview
Joined Oct 2009
332 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Pierson View Post
Hi Guys,
Any one get there Pioneer Airborn as yet!! ? How about you Joe, I am geetting close and I sure would like to here from some one that is Flying theres right now!! Please
Joe
Still waiting on the weather and we had a solid offer on our house so we are getting ready for an inspection.

I hope that the weather will improve this week, its a soaker out there today. The forecast is for rain all week. And I really wanted to be the first.
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Old Mar 11, 2012, 05:27 PM
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Hi Joe,
Same here, Rain all week lots of wind so I will not be flying this week so waiting on you
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 12:49 AM
Keep calm and don't blink
KiwiKid's Avatar
Hamilton, New Zealand
Joined Jun 2005
2,066 Posts
Hey Joe I love what you have done with your model - looks pretty flash. Those graphics totally mess this model up.

I have a number of flying wings and have found that, as well as the CG being critical, it is vital to have the right amount of reflex dialed in. Did any of you notice in that vid on the other thread (from the German retail site) how much reflex he had on the elevators and ailerons.



Looks like about 8/10mm on the elevators and 2/3mm on the ailerons. This is VERY important or you will suffer extreme pitch down tendancies, particularly on power up. I am surprised that the German guy had enough elevator throw left to do quite a tight loop, indicating that the model is quite pitch sensative, which you would expect.
The model seems a bit lethargic in turns (certainly haven't seen anyone do a roll yet) and I would tend to agree with Joe C that it would be an interesting experiment to play around with the set up. One option would be to extend the elevator further out towards the end of the wing, then run the controls as elevons (with reflex!) - just by Y leading the servos I guess or by mixing.
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 01:04 AM
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Glad you like it! Yes I also noticed, the reflex, and already have it in mine! You have a good eye In the instructions
they wanted 5mm up on the elevators. Its been raining for two days now, but we really need it.
Joe
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Last edited by Joe Pierson; Mar 18, 2012 at 01:28 AM. Reason: added text
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 10:44 AM
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United States, NY, Bronx County
Joined Nov 2008
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Maybe he is flying very nose heavy that why why for the large reflex. That is a lot of drag.
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 11:03 AM
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Cottonwood Arizona
Joined Aug 2003
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Can you post a link of the entire video? Thanks



Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiKid View Post
Hey Joe I love what you have done with your model - looks pretty flash. Those graphics totally mess this model up.

I have a number of flying wings and have found that, as well as the CG being critical, it is vital to have the right amount of reflex dialed in. Did any of you notice in that vid on the other thread (from the German retail site) how much reflex he had on the elevators and ailerons.



Looks like about 8/10mm on the elevators and 2/3mm on the ailerons. This is VERY important or you will suffer extreme pitch down tendancies, particularly on power up. I am surprised that the German guy had enough elevator throw left to do quite a tight loop, indicating that the model is quite pitch sensative, which you would expect.
The model seems a bit lethargic in turns (certainly haven't seen anyone do a roll yet) and I would tend to agree with Joe C that it would be an interesting experiment to play around with the set up. One option would be to extend the elevator further out towards the end of the wing, then run the controls as elevons (with reflex!) - just by Y leading the servos I guess or by mixing.
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Old Mar 18, 2012, 02:54 PM
Keep calm and don't blink
KiwiKid's Avatar
Hamilton, New Zealand
Joined Jun 2005
2,066 Posts
You can view the video on this commercial retail site: http://www.tempohobby.eu/index.php/s...ugzeug/pioneer

The Pioneer is also available on E-bay.
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