HobbyKing.com New Products Flash Sale
Reply
Thread Tools
Old Dec 15, 2012, 02:44 PM
Registered User
Gordysoar's Avatar
USA, KY, Louisville
Joined Oct 2002
683 Posts
brake programming didn't work :-(

Usually when you put the throttle at full, then plug in the speed control's power you'll get four beeps then a second set of beeps. If you move the throttle to low during those second beeps, it should turn on the brake, but it doesn't seem to work.

IF anyone figures it out it would be a huge help because the prop free wheeling is a lot of drag.
Thanks
gordy
Gordysoar is offline Find More Posts by Gordysoar
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Sign up now
to remove ads between posts
Old Dec 17, 2012, 11:50 PM
Registered User
Gary, IN, USA
Joined Jul 1999
940 Posts
That works on a typical ESC, but I have never seen one like this long style before. It may to late for me to get a maiden in this year, but a new ESC may give you brake and lighten up the whole weight.
Come on now, spend some of what you saved buying the bargain and get a new ESC...
Gordy, I did a dumb and tried flying it myself....and the fat body is like gripping a football. You're right about the control horns not being glued right. One elevator horn was loose that really messes things up. All are secure now. Had a few medium ground thumps on the launch attemps and the aileron hinges started ripping. Fixed them with Blenderm tape. Fixed the flexible rubber wing with 3M Extreme tape ironed on the bottom. Also ding-proofed the leading edge with 3M clear tape.
I've flown many flying wings as power and slope gliders. I think part of the stability "twitchy-ness" reported so often may be from the large rounded body shape. It may be acting as a lifting body..canard ?. I have a similar effect with my MIG-15 EDF and the large forward canopy at slow speeds.
This sure is a nice looking wing and I like the effect the level stabilizer has.
Jim Petro is offline Find More Posts by Jim Petro
Last edited by Jim Petro; Dec 18, 2012 at 12:32 AM. Reason: Added more details
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 18, 2012, 10:28 AM
Registered User
CFrench's Avatar
United States, MD, Rockville
Joined Nov 2000
271 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Petro View Post
Fixed the flexible rubber wing with 3M Extreme tape ironed on the bottom.
Jim

You have a link for that tape?
CFrench is offline Find More Posts by CFrench
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:32 AM
AMA 937634
United States, AK, Anchorage
Joined Jan 2010
1,579 Posts
It's available at many local hardware stores but here's a link to Tower's site:

http://www3.towerhobbies.com/cgi-bin...tape&search=Go

It's stronger and lighter than duct tape and it's a lot stickier than some other types of tape.

The thing to remember with Extreme tape is that it really doesn't like UV and will begin to yellow and break down over the summer months. Keep an eye on it and you'll be fine.

-Mike
Stone1295 is offline Find More Posts by Stone1295
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 18, 2012, 09:48 PM
Registered User
Gary, IN, USA
Joined Jul 1999
940 Posts
I got my last rolls in Miejers, Walgreens or Menards. Yes, the previous stuff was affected by UV, but I haven't seen this this year. The reinforcing filliaments run lengthways and crossways. A sharp knife allows you to easily cut the 2" wide tape to narrower sizes guided by the strands. It come in a applicator roll. 34-8704 is how the number starts.
The adhesive gets even better if you heat bond it with your covering iron set at 212 degrees. It even shrinks a little.
I especially like to use it on foam stabilizers; They are ususally thin and flexible, but the 3M strip on top and bottom stiffens it nicely.
Jim Petro is offline Find More Posts by Jim Petro
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 18, 2012, 11:53 PM
Registered User
Joined Feb 2007
100 Posts
Bought my first rolls a few years ago at Office Depot. Extreme tape is great for leading edge protection on combat wings and skid plates for belly landing foam planes in the desert gravel. Has anyone tried New Stuff or Monokote on these wings yet? I have regular laminating film, it works great for making foam wings stiff without carbon spars but heavy like extreme tape.
faa51408 is offline Find More Posts by faa51408
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 19, 2012, 08:48 PM
Registered User
Gordysoar's Avatar
USA, KY, Louisville
Joined Oct 2002
683 Posts
Its NOT down thrust!

Hi guys, one of the posts talked about how the motor had a lot of down thrust...and others reported hard to launch, the model crashing into the ground in front of them.

Its not motor thrust line, its prop wash creating a lot of down pressure on the leading edge of the wing near the fuselage.

Launch with only 1/2 to 2/3 throttle and she'll fly right out of your hand, give it a really good push but it does not need a throw.

A huge improvement will be to either mix ailerons to elevators (elevons) or cut the adjoining materlal next to the elevators to increase their length...buy joining those pieces to the elevators.

You can see mine on flat land, and slope. Balance is 44mm, make linkages connections into the lowest holes on the servo arms and second from the top on the surface horns. then reduce travel adjust to no more than 1/2" up high rate and 3/8" up, low rate.

I got a 6 minute thermal flight off a 200m launch (ALES shut off switch). I have my motor altitude limit switches set so that they will not allow the motor to be restarted after the launch hits 200m.

Its really hard to see at that altitude, so thermaling is tough to control.

I didn't find any reason so far to stiffen wings or surfaces.

I did DS mine but there wasn't good energy, so only got a few laps before the energy ran out...and not very fast.

Good times ahead!
Check out my YouTube Channel for the videos "GordySoar"
Gordy
Gordysoar is offline Find More Posts by Gordysoar
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2012, 12:35 PM
AMA 937634
United States, AK, Anchorage
Joined Jan 2010
1,579 Posts
@ Jim Petro

That's good news about it not being as affected by UV as the previous versions.

I haven't seen any difference on my usage but I may have a couple of rolls of the older stuff? I do see that it's yellowing on one of my planes that's been taped for 2 years now.

I guess the take home message for me is to keep checking my tape on my preflights to look for signs of it coming apart.

Thanks!

-Mike
Stone1295 is offline Find More Posts by Stone1295
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2012, 09:19 PM
Electric Coolhunter
Thomas B's Avatar
United States, TX, Fort Worth
Joined Jun 2000
14,474 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordysoar View Post
Hi guys, one of the posts talked about how the motor had a lot of down thrust...and others reported hard to launch, the model crashing into the ground in front of them.

Its not motor thrust line, its prop wash creating a lot of down pressure on the leading edge of the wing near the fuselage.

Launch with only 1/2 to 2/3 throttle and she'll fly right out of your hand, give it a really good push but it does not need a throw.

A huge improvement will be to either mix ailerons to elevators (elevons) or cut the adjoining materlal next to the elevators to increase their length...buy joining those pieces to the elevators.

......................

I didn't find any reason so far to stiffen wings or surfaces.

..........................................

Good times ahead!
Check out my YouTube Channel for the videos "GordySoar"
Gordy
While some of the effect could be downwash (not completely sold on that theory), I think a thrust line adjustment will still help things out. When doing a low gliding fly by and then powering up to full power, the model does want to pitch down, even moving along. At higher speeds, the elevator reflex starts working and cures the issue.

I am not a fan of near full span elevons on flying wings with a little forward sweep. The Larry Renger designed Toucan, a FS (forward swept) slope wing from the learly 1990s helps prove that full span elevons have issues on a FS wing model. The DCU T60R update of the Toucan went to elevators and ailerons, like the Marske Pioneer.

I could see making the elevators a little longer in span, but I would not mix the ailerons into elevons, personally.

The best reason to reinforce the wing is so that you do not have to watch it flapping like a bird in turbulence.... That is the main reasn I do so on any foamy with excess structural elasticity in the wing.

On the subject of some expo in the model: I think expo is a personal choice. I flew from 1972 until the early 1990s with no expo capable radio and had no issues doing so, including some sailplane competitions. Since the late 1990s, I have been using programmable radios and I like the way most models fly with some expo, including the Pioneer. If you fly with some expo and if you already like expo, a somewhat softer center stick effect will not cause you any issues and the slight flex of the Pioneer is a non issue.

Even though the Pioneer is a little flexible in the control surfaces as well as the airframe, that does not present any issues with using a little expo. At the speeds the foam Pioneer was designed to fly at, there will not be any issues with the controls flexing enough to create any adverse effects. There is simply not enough load on the surfaces at normal flying speeds and normal climbing speeds. A look at the servo power requirements calculators that help folks to size servos to a model's flying speeds and control surface sizes demonstrate that.

Sure seems like there are a lot of better glider choices out there for doing DS and for flying hard and fast than this one, which was never designed to do so. Different strokes for different folks, though.
Thomas B is offline Find More Posts by Thomas B
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: 2014 events and travel
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 20, 2012, 10:11 PM
Registered User
Gordysoar's Avatar
USA, KY, Louisville
Joined Oct 2002
683 Posts
So what you got out of all my comments is that I got it to DS?
What you should have gotten was that I flew it flat land thermaling, and on the slope...both front and back side a bit...and got the video.

I've DS'd the Waserkuppe, a dune in Dubai, the backside of Aruba, a club site in Venezuela and Parker with JW and Pat Bowman and a few hundred other slopes around the USA like Frankfort Kentucky. You fly what you got on the day ;-).

I do then write, so you'll definitely read what I find after I convert it to elevons. As the world's leading Simitar fanatic, I've flown over a hundred tailless Simitars with forward, straight and sweep leading edges...so no fear guys, it'll will be okay :-)

The Pioneer is NOT a glider...in this case its an electric launch sailplane...gliders are any airplane that lands with out a motor, a sailplane is a plane a pilot can make go up without a motor....Most guys who bought it bought it as a tailless powered airplane. They want to rip around the sky with a cool looking airplane....that's fun too!

The Pioneer is not going to out thermal my current build project...156" span, 63oz sailplane....but under the thumb of a competant thermal pilot the Pioneer thermals pretty well...and looks great on the slope. For those of you who would like it to be really great, You could do what I planned from the start....just use the fuselage and bag up a serious set of wings...cuz I like fun building projects and I know which airfoils to use for them.

As far as downwash goes, theory is something untested, but again I have about a thousand hours of flying low wing powered tailless models..and even wrote the article...after testing what's already in use on full scale planes with the leading edge pressure thing.

I don't want anyone to take my word for it....test it! Take some down thrust out! It is very likely there is too much...why? Simply read throught this thread and the other Pioneer thread, 90% of the guys who got the model move the CG forward instead of turning down their rates...(you can still use expo if you like sloppy centers :-). When the nose gets heavy the tail has to be tuned upwards....apply throttle and the nose zooms upwards with the increase in airspeed...the producers knew guys would likely not set the CG where they had it but likely forward of that...so to compensate...add downthrust.

Try this stuff, then write about the results. That's what helps.

One hour before the end of the world.
Gordy
Freezing in Kentucky
Gordysoar is offline Find More Posts by Gordysoar
RCG Plus Member
Reply With Quote
Old Dec 21, 2012, 12:34 PM
Electric Coolhunter
Thomas B's Avatar
United States, TX, Fort Worth
Joined Jun 2000
14,474 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordysoar View Post
So what you got out of all my comments is that I got it to DS?
What you should have gotten was that I flew it flat land thermaling, and on the slope...both front and back side a bit...and got the video.

I do then write, so you'll definitely read what I find after I convert it to elevons. As the world's leading Simitar fanatic, I've flown over a hundred tailless Simitars with forward, straight and sweep leading edges...so no fear guys, it'll will be okay :-)

The Pioneer is NOT a glider...in this case its an electric launch sailplane...gliders are any airplane that lands with out a motor, a sailplane is a plane a pilot can make go up without a motor....Most guys who bought it bought it as a tailless powered airplane. They want to rip around the sky with a cool looking airplane....that's fun too!

......................

I don't want anyone to take my word for it....test it! Take some down thrust out! It is very likely there is too much...why? Simply read throught this thread and the other Pioneer thread, 90% of the guys who got the model move the CG forward instead of turning down their rates...(you can still use expo if you like sloppy centers :-). When the nose gets heavy the tail has to be tuned upwards....apply throttle and the nose zooms upwards with the increase in airspeed...the producers knew guys would likely not set the CG where they had it but likely forward of that...so to compensate...add downthrust.

.....Gordy
Freezing in Kentucky
I "got" more than the DS part and read what you wrote about the other parts, but they did not seem as silly as DSing it...

Once the motor is turned off at altitude and the prop is folded, This model is then a glider, with a little extra drag around the nose..... Whether or not it was powered or towed to altitude no longer matters. If you find lift, this glider goes up just like the ones with no motor installed.

Like I said, what is "sloppy centers" to you is a soft center to others and it is all about how you like the feel of your aircraft. I prefer one that is a little soft around the centers and that is still has everything available as needed. Given that you still have full throw, you give up nothing for the feel that some pilots prefer.

I have a number of flights on the various Simitars as well, plus lots of Plank variations. Note that the Pioneer is rather a higher aspect ratio than the average Simitar. If you read Jim Marskes book on his flying wing designs, he makes a good case for separate controls and not elevons on his designs.
Not long ago I had a discussion on the topic of FS flying wings and control configurations with the owner of DCU, Mark Hambelton (DCU is no longer in the RC biz, but he does some composite and CNC contracting for me where I work.)There IS a reason the T60R he produced has separate control surfaces as compared to the original smaller Toucan.

Like I said, different strokes for different folks. Worth having multiple opinions and experiences here in the thread, I think.
Thomas B is offline Find More Posts by Thomas B
RCG Plus Member
Last edited by Thomas B; Dec 21, 2012 at 12:42 PM.
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 09, 2013, 08:10 AM
Registered User
The_RattleSnake's Avatar
Joined Jul 2007
745 Posts
I'm interested is one of these.

Are Nitroplanes good to deal with?
The_RattleSnake is offline Find More Posts by The_RattleSnake
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 09, 2013, 12:21 PM
Electric Coolhunter
Thomas B's Avatar
United States, TX, Fort Worth
Joined Jun 2000
14,474 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by The_RattleSnake View Post
I'm interested is one of these.

Are Nitroplanes good to deal with?
I have had good luck with Nitroplanes. Not the best source for newcomers, as the after sale service can be problematic, but with the single problem I had, a broken glass fuse on a sailplane, it was replaced promptly once I posted a picture of the problem on one of the on line Nitroplanes support forums.
Thomas B is offline Find More Posts by Thomas B
RCG Plus Member
Latest blog entry: 2014 events and travel
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 09, 2013, 03:48 PM
Registered User
The_RattleSnake's Avatar
Joined Jul 2007
745 Posts
I had a look at ordering a yellow one (kit) as I have enough spare bits here.
But they are trying to charge me $161 just for postage! on a plane that costs $129
are they trying to sell these or not?

That amount of postage is just stupid.
The_RattleSnake is offline Find More Posts by The_RattleSnake
Reply With Quote
Old Mar 17, 2013, 08:17 AM
Registered User
The_RattleSnake's Avatar
Joined Jul 2007
745 Posts
Does anyone know where to get one of these without paying $160 for postage?
The_RattleSnake is offline Find More Posts by The_RattleSnake
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Similar Threads
Category Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Discussion Figuring out electric engine size for my flying wing. peternemser Flying Wings 5 Nov 07, 2011 04:08 PM
Wanted 48" Flying Wing/Combat Wing Electric wbrannies Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 8 Sep 30, 2011 08:20 PM
For Sale electric boomerang flying wing glennjunior1 Aircraft - Electric - Airplanes (FS/W) 4 Jul 25, 2011 10:36 AM
Discussion Will this Wing work for flying electric kallie20 Flying Wings 7 May 09, 2011 04:23 AM