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Old Nov 15, 2011, 09:47 PM
Low rates are for wimps
bwoollia's Avatar
United States, CO, Colorado Springs
Joined May 2008
3,403 Posts
New Product
KDS 550E / 600E / 700E Innova FBL

Well, I figured it was time to upgrade from my trusty Flasher / T-Rex 500 to a larger helicopter and join the flybarless revolution. Lots of choices out there, but a new line from KDS caught my eye. I like KDS, I've flown one of their 450 series and their Flymentor works as advertised.

I purchased the "KDS Innova 600FBL Flybarless Helicopter Super Combo" from SN Hobbies, this includes the following:
http://www.snhobbies.com/product_inf...60c0a162f6b15b

-Flybarless Helicopter
-KDS E-Bar (perhaps not a great name for something that isn't a clone)
-CF Blades
-KDS N680 digital cyclic servos
-KDS N690 digital tail servo
-KDS BL -5052-500kv motor
-KDS 120A HV ESC (the manual reads suspiciously identical to a HobbyWing Platinum ESC)
KDS 8A UBEC

The kit also included all the little extra doodads like velcro straps and loctite. The manual is very comprehensive, it reads like an Align manual and covers both the flybar and fbl versions.

The CNC machining appears very good. The frame and head come assembled, however there is a bright red sheet on top of the the box contents that warns that the helicopter has to be reassembled with loctite before flying. Overall, the fit and finish appears very good.

The canopy on the box appears blue and white, however the one that came with the helicopter is red and yellow with a black top. I prefer the red and yellow.

I'll be putting this together slowly over the next few weeks, posting photos now and again. My goal is to upgrade to a unique, flybarless 600 sized helicopter.

KDS Innova 600E FBL Box Opening (5 min 56 sec)






















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Last edited by bwoollia; Nov 20, 2011 at 01:57 PM. Reason: Expand thread scope
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Old Nov 16, 2011, 10:56 AM
Umm what just flew off my ship
GhostFlyer1's Avatar
Joined Jan 2010
1,016 Posts
Im Running that speed controller on a Chaos 600. There were no Castle Ice2's to be found when I converted my 600 to 10s. The soft start feature is not quite as soft ad the ICE2 but im ok with that. That canopy is very nice looking but it sure has alot of black on it. I may have to have one made with brighter colors when my 700 comes in. My eyes are not what they use to be. Keep us posted on the build, things you like, things you dont, things you would have done different.

Very nice looking heli.... cannot wait to get mine.
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Old Nov 16, 2011, 11:04 AM
Low rates are for wimps
bwoollia's Avatar
United States, CO, Colorado Springs
Joined May 2008
3,403 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by GhostFlyer1 View Post
Im Running that speed controller on a Chaos 600. There were no Castle Ice2's to be found when I converted my 600 to 10s. The soft start feature is not quite as soft ad the ICE2 but im ok with that. That canopy is very nice looking but it sure has alot of black on it. I may have to have one made with brighter colors when my 700 comes in. My eyes are not what they use to be. Keep us posted on the build, things you like, things you dont, things you would have done different.

Very nice looking heli.... cannot wait to get mine.
I have a HW Pentium 80A on my 500, the soft start is about 8 seconds and I'm expecting this one to be about the same - is that what you're getting?

The canopy is a little dark, I'm hoping that the size of the model will help. I'm having less orientation issues than I did than when I was a baby heli pilot, now as a, let's say "tween" heli pilot I don't fret over it as much. We'll see how it works out.

I have received some feedback, pms and private messages about the servos. Everybody says that the N680s won't last. Searching on RCG, helifreak, google, bing, youtube reveals only positive reviews. I'm not sure where the bad rep is coming from, I suspect it's part of the view that KDS is a Chinese clone pusher rather than a serious player. I still plan to run them for now, and I'll keep my eyes out for legitimate failure reports.
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Old Nov 16, 2011, 01:58 PM
Umm what just flew off my ship
GhostFlyer1's Avatar
Joined Jan 2010
1,016 Posts
Yes its about 8 seconds or so. I have heard the same thing about the servos but the object of this excercise is to rate it for someone who is not a stick smashing 3million flips in 3.5 seconds kind of pilot. I do some big air 3d but nothing hardcore. I am willing to bet they will be just fine for a while...
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Old Nov 16, 2011, 01:59 PM
Low rates are for wimps
bwoollia's Avatar
United States, CO, Colorado Springs
Joined May 2008
3,403 Posts
Yeah, that's my school of thought too. I've had all kinds of good luck with Chinese servos.
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Old Nov 16, 2011, 06:10 PM
Team Innova
Helihope's Avatar
Joined Sep 2011
120 Posts
here is photos of my 700..... not finished but wanted to see how see looked


http://rc.runryder.com/helicopter/gallery/85205/
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Old Nov 16, 2011, 06:15 PM
Team Innova
Helihope's Avatar
Joined Sep 2011
120 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by bwoollia View Post
I have a HW Pentium 80A on my 500, the soft start is about 8 seconds and I'm expecting this one to be about the same - is that what you're getting?

The canopy is a little dark, I'm hoping that the size of the model will help. I'm having less orientation issues than I did than when I was a baby heli pilot, now as a, let's say "tween" heli pilot I don't fret over it as much. We'll see how it works out.

I have received some feedback, pms and private messages about the servos. Everybody says that the N680s won't last. Searching on RCG, helifreak, google, bing, youtube reveals only positive reviews. I'm not sure where the bad rep is coming from, I suspect it's part of the view that KDS is a Chinese clone pusher rather than a serious player. I still plan to run them for now, and I'll keep my eyes out for legitimate failure reports.

I too have looked around in many places to find tru reports but nothing so far Kds tells me that there servos hold up find and im not sure if its the fact that people just don't want this soo called Clone (that to me is very very impressive in its self) Hope you enjoy your 600 and please let us know thank you


Team Innova
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Old Nov 16, 2011, 09:06 PM
Low rates are for wimps
bwoollia's Avatar
United States, CO, Colorado Springs
Joined May 2008
3,403 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Helihope View Post
I too have looked around in many places to find tru reports but nothing so far Kds tells me that there servos hold up find and im not sure if its the fact that people just don't want this soo called Clone (that to me is very very impressive in its self) Hope you enjoy your 600 and please let us know thank you


Team Innova
Yeah, it's going together very well, the fit and finish is very good. Carbon is carbon, and the CNC work is very good. Quality is not an issue at all here - so far this is turning out to be an excellent helicopter.
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Old Nov 16, 2011, 10:23 PM
Team Innova
Helihope's Avatar
Joined Sep 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bwoollia View Post
Yeah, it's going together very well, the fit and finish is very good. Carbon is carbon, and the CNC work is very good. Quality is not an issue at all here - so far this is turning out to be an excellent helicopter.
it only gets better as you go
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Old Nov 16, 2011, 10:33 PM
Low rates are for wimps
bwoollia's Avatar
United States, CO, Colorado Springs
Joined May 2008
3,403 Posts
I managed to get a bit more work done today. First I installed the tail rotor assembly to the boom, threading the belt into the boom. Most of the bolts are held in place with locknuts, maybe three or four bolts need loctite. I then proceeded to install the belt / main gear / main shaft.

What a pain.

It's a nice setup, but a bit of a puzzle. First, get the shaft through the top two bearings and through the tail belt gear and washer (you'll drop that washer about fifty times). Make sure you orient the belt correctly (with no twists, the tail rotor should be pointed at the floor). Then slide in the main gear with its washer in place. These should all be kind of loose now. Next, take the main shaft lower sleeve and work that onto the shaft, making sure you leave space between the two gears to put in the little locking pin that keeps the belt gear rotating with the main shaft. This has to go through the sleeve AND shaft, then the shaft and pin slides into place on the belt gear. Finally, put the lower shaft spacer on the shaft below the main gear, and install the lower main shaft bearing and holder. Whew. Now go wash the oil off your hands and lie down for a bit.

I've attached some pictures from the manual for the process.

The fit of these parts is excellent - everything fits together perfectly with no slop.







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Old Nov 17, 2011, 09:12 AM
Team Innova
Helihope's Avatar
Joined Sep 2011
120 Posts
LOL you have now completed the hardest part of the build...... Now is all fun
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Old Nov 18, 2011, 08:36 AM
plank n shankbone pilot
red_z06's Avatar
Dumont, NJ
Joined Feb 2005
869 Posts
I would recommend you take out the 088 screws from the tail drive pulley and at least CA glue them in or JB weld them.

During our 700 testing, those screws backed out in flight with part 087 dangling by a single screw when landed.

Also, replace the tail grip bolt to ones that have smooth shoulders where they contact blade bushing. I ended up with much brass shavings inside the tail grips with the stock screws. BTW, changes and improvements in these areas are coming.



Quote:
I too have looked around in many places to find tru reports but nothing so far Kds tells me that there servos hold up find and im not sure if its the fact that people just don't want this soo called Clone
We are testing all three versions and to report back issues back to KDS along with the recommendation for improvements. The president of KDS recommended that we do not use the stock servos on the 700.
The servos are plenty strong to handle the speed and torque requirement of 700 helis. But, the gears might have some durability issues for hardcore fliers.

But, above info is based on the owner of the company and their number 1 factory pilot Jae-Hong Lee. So, although I have not tested them myself, I would be inclined to heed their recommendations.
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Old Nov 18, 2011, 10:02 AM
Umm what just flew off my ship
GhostFlyer1's Avatar
Joined Jan 2010
1,016 Posts
But they would probably hold up for most of us normal weekend pilots I am assuming. You have to admit Jae, Justin and the other hardcore pilots like that beat the snot out of them...

You might post what you do like vs what you dont like. It might be helpful to us average guys

Thanks......

On a side note I am having UPS for breakfast this morning.... grrrrrrrrrrr my 700 should have been here last night but the driver was being lazy..... said first attemp to deliver customer not available and I was home all evening....
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Old Nov 18, 2011, 10:14 AM
Team Innova
Helihope's Avatar
Joined Sep 2011
120 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by red_z06 View Post
BTW, changes and improvements in these areas are coming.
Thank you for your incite and i am tracking of the issues and changes to the Innova line of helicopters as i am dealer for KDS. your incite is always welcome.
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Old Nov 18, 2011, 10:16 AM
plank n shankbone pilot
red_z06's Avatar
Dumont, NJ
Joined Feb 2005
869 Posts
Quote:
But they would probably hold up for most of us normal weekend pilots I am assuming.
That might be true. But, being in a new product development as a profession, I do feel that we HAVE to test what will be sold to 110-120% capacity and survive. So, average users will not experience fatigue related failures. In other words, no one should be juggling just below the failure point as these things can get out of hand and hurt someone.
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Last edited by red_z06; Nov 18, 2011 at 10:26 AM.
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