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Old Mar 01, 2012, 06:21 PM
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Joined Jan 2012
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Hey guys,my 9116 has been a trooper for a long time But today it started to get a mind of its own Without any rudder input she decides to do piros on her own and sticks have become sluggish any Ideahs? and if what I think might be the case whats the best US friendly link for the PCB so I can order (I have a 9100 for other parts)
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 07:53 PM
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Majic1's Avatar
United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Dec 2011
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roadglidec View Post
Hey guys,my 9116 has been a trooper for a long time But today it started to get a mind of its own Without any rudder input she decides to do piros on her own and sticks have become sluggish any Ideahs? and if what I think might be the case whats the best US friendly link for the PCB so I can order (I have a 9100 for other parts)
I bought a spare PCB for my 9116 back in the middle of January from a place called Goldwing Hobby. There are located in Garden Grove, CA, I believe. You can get them from China for about $12.00, but when you buy them locally they are a lot more. I think I paid $25.00 for the one I have.

I'll sell you my extra one if you can't find one...

I think the site is: http://www.goldwinghobby.com

btw, they don't show them on their site. You have to call them to see if they are in stock.


Good Luck,

~Mike
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 08:00 PM
Tom
United States, AZ, Tucson
Joined Dec 2011
248 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadglidec View Post
Hey guys,my 9116 has been a trooper for a long time But today it started to get a mind of its own Without any rudder input she decides to do piros on her own and sticks have become sluggish any Ideahs? and if what I think might be the case whats the best US friendly link for the PCB so I can order (I have a 9100 for other parts)
Mine just failed this afternoon so ordered one from these folks:

http://www.rcroanoke.com/

Less than $18 shipped. Mine failed because of my own stupidity - flew it after a rainstorm when the grass I land in was wet and the board got pretty soaked. Tried drying it out to see if it would fix itself but it just keeps making intermittent contact .
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 08:22 PM
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Australia, TAS, Launceston
Joined Nov 2011
1,498 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom4416 View Post
Mine just failed this afternoon so ordered one from these folks:

http://www.rcroanoke.com/

Less than $18 shipped. Mine failed because of my own stupidity - flew it after a rainstorm when the grass I land in was wet and the board got pretty soaked. Tried drying it out to see if it would fix itself but it just keeps making intermittent contact .
Unlucky mate, mine went a foot underwater when the wind drifted me over our pool once, I dove and reached in and grabbed it before it went to the bottom (nearly lost the tx in the water too!). She still flies!
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 10:07 PM
Eugene
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Australia, VIC, Delacombe
Joined Oct 2006
918 Posts
Ok everyone that is having problems with the tail rotor there is only 4 things that could be at fault they are:

1 Tail Motor or wireing
2 PCB
3 Gyro
4 Main Motor


To Replace the Tail

Take off the canopy and unplug the wires for the tail motor and the tail light ( Tail motor is the blue and white wires and the tail light is the red and black ones)
cut the cable ties holding the wires to the body, undo the 2 center screws on each side of the tail block and pull the tail out allong with the wireing. Now replace the tail unit in the same way as above but in reverse.
If you wish to check the wireing of the tail unit then you would remove both tail fins and the bar retainer and the bars as well, then undo the 2 tail rotor unit screws and remove it and carefuly remove the wires from the boom and check them for any wear or cuts in the covering and fix it with a few coats of Nail Polish as you won't be able to use tape etc as it will foul in the tail boom and you wont get the wires to thread back in the boom and then reasemble it as above in reverse.

To Replace the PCB


Take off the canopy and unplug everything on the board marking them as you go then undo the 2 screws holding the PCB.Then unscrew the 3 screws on each side on the base of the body of the heli and remove the 2 bars going to the tail, then unscrew the 2 screws for the switch and then unclip the floor and remove it by expanding the body frame slightly then it will come out along with the PCB.
Unsolder the 2 power wires the Red and Black one that are at the top side of the board next to each other, some boards come with the switch installed and some don't if yours dosn't you will have to unsolder the 2 black swich wires from the board as well remember to mark them so you know where to resolder them back on. What I did was to put a piece of masking tape on each of them and I numberd them 1-4. Now solder the wires in place on the new PCB and reinstal it in the reverse as stated above but remember to install the switch first before you install the floor.

To Replace the Gyro

If you have a spare PCB that has had to be replaced due to flight damage ect take the Gyro of it and replace it with the suspect Gyro on your existing PCB. Just undo the 2 screws on the board and pull out the plugs marking them as you go flip the board over and unsolder the legs on the Gyro from the PCB and resolder the spare one in place of the suspect one and reassemble.

To Replace the Main Motor

Take off the canopy and unclip the servo linkages on the swash plate then undo the retaining screw in the main gear and remove the shaft and then the main gear.Unscrew the 3 screws on each side on the base of the body of the heli and remove the 2 bars going to the tail then unclip the floor and remove it by expanding the body frame slightly. Unplug the motor from the PCB and remove the 2 screws holding in the motor and remove it, now replace the old motor with the new one and reasemble in the reverse order as above.

Note! If you wish to save your self allot of bother the next time you want to replace the motor, you can do the following:

Now that the heli is apart also remove the ON/OFF switch and everything on the PCB so you can remove the floor completely and mark and drill 2 x 3/16" holes in the floor so they line up with the motor screws so you can remove the motor without haveing to take the heli apart.
The next time you need to replace the motor all you will have to do is to remove the linkages from the swash plate undo the main gear screw and pull out the shaft and the main gear then undo the 2 screws and replace the motor and reasemble it.

I hope this has helped.
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Old Mar 01, 2012, 10:12 PM
Eugene
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Australia, VIC, Delacombe
Joined Oct 2006
918 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom4416 View Post
Mine failed because of my own stupidity - flew it after a rainstorm when the grass I land in was wet and the board got pretty soaked. Tried drying it out to see if it would fix itself but it just keeps making intermittent contact .
Hi Tom,
Try taking it out and givining it a good spray with Electronic Conact Cleaner and let it dry overnight as it will remove any left over moisture and hopfully fix the intermiting short you are getting.
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Last edited by Whizgig; Mar 02, 2012 at 12:06 AM.
Old Mar 02, 2012, 01:08 AM
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Here's a little tidbit of info I recently discovered.

For those that use training gear, I found instead of using zip or cable ties to fix it to the landing skids, I use o-rings, that are used for hose snap fittings. You slip the end of the train gear leg into the o-ring, then wrap the o-ring around the landing skid, then back over the training gear leg. It holds it firmly, but is reuseable, unlike the cable ties.

I don't have my training gear legs on all the time, as the heli won't fit on my shelf while they are still attached.



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Old Mar 02, 2012, 02:31 AM
Eugene
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Australia, VIC, Delacombe
Joined Oct 2006
918 Posts
Cool Mick I'll have to go to bunnings and get some for the 450's training gear.
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Old Mar 02, 2012, 02:46 AM
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I found some thinner ones, but roughly the same diameter as the o-rings pictured, so they slide through a lot better and don't place as much stress on the landing gear itself, as you are sliding them through. I bought an o-ring multi-pack from the local bargain store for $2.00, so I've got plenty to experiment with.

Does anyone find the plastic clip that holds the ends of the training legs snaps fairly easily? I've snapped two in the last couple of days. Maybe an alternative can be made from aluminium alloy.
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Old Mar 02, 2012, 06:58 AM
Tom
United States, AZ, Tucson
Joined Dec 2011
248 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormforce View Post
I found some thinner ones, but roughly the same diameter as the o-rings pictured, so they slide through a lot better and don't place as much stress on the landing gear itself, as you are sliding them through. I bought an o-ring multi-pack from the local bargain store for $2.00, so I've got plenty to experiment with.

Does anyone find the plastic clip that holds the ends of the training legs snaps fairly easily? I've snapped two in the last couple of days. Maybe an alternative can be made from aluminium alloy.
The retainer on mine is more of a solid piece without those arms on it. Just imagine a solid disk with holes drilled where the rods enter and meet in the center. I've busted off several zip ties with some "aggressive" landings but the retainer remains intact.

I figured out yesterday that I was being way too timid with my 450. Kept trying to hover it a few inches off the ground but it kept skittering off in different directions because of ground effects. Got frustrated and finally just popped it up about 3 feet, much like I do the 9116. The difference was amazing! I could actually get it into a pretty stable hover with minimal stick input. Did a couple of FF and then piros to turn around and come back. Landing was still a bit sticky as it got closer to the ground and start moving around again so just used the throttle kill and dropped it down fairly hard from a couple of feet up. Hard for me to believe I'll someday be able to fly it without training wheels
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Old Mar 02, 2012, 07:06 AM
Eugene
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Australia, VIC, Delacombe
Joined Oct 2006
918 Posts
Cool Tom,
I'm in the prosess of setting up my Titan 450 Pro for it's first flight but so far eveyday the weather has been wet and windy. All I have been able to do is the setup and the runups I can't wait to get it outside and try some hovering.
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Old Mar 02, 2012, 01:51 PM
Mr. Blade Strike
Joined Mar 2012
6 Posts
Thought I'd drop in a quick thanks to everyone who's contributed to this thread. I started researching my next purchase four days ago, and literally just finished reading the whole thing. Very good info, thanks for sharing!

Having purchased a DH9100 about a month back and being unhappy with it's lack of roll adjustment (the only way to make mine hover is nose-in in an 8' circle) I decided to do some research and see what could be done with it, and somehow found this thread. I thought it would be a nice, easy step between coaxials and a single rotor 4ch but I guess I should have done more reading. Never the less, after covering the first couple dozen pages here it became evident that a 9116 would be a better learning tool on my way to a real 6ch CP machine, with the added bonus of having a 9100 to cannibalize for parts. So I ordered one from amazon and then after a little more reading ordered the necessary parts to convert the 9100 to a 9116.

Anyway, after three days of reading I have a couple quick questions and an observation.

Q: Has anyone tried "potting" the PCB in epoxy or some other protective coating to make it more tolerant to abuse? The only concern I have is whether the coating would attenuate the microwave antenna (2.4ghz rx). The solder pads for the power and on/off loop would need to be masked off as would the connectors, but otherwise I think this would do a lot to "battle harden" the board.

O: I don't consider myself knowledgeable on the subject, but it appears to me there's no way this thing will fly at all without the flybar. Unlike a CP machine, the rotor head is not articulated to directly follow the motions of the swashplate. The only thing that's directly controlled by the swash is the attitude of the flybar, which then indirectly controls the blade pitch. Another way to think of this is to imagine the flybar as a gyroscope rotor, and the swashplate's function is to move the heli's CG underneath the rotor assembly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think shortening the flybar would in effect reduce the responsiveness and stability. If my assumtion is correct, I doubt there's any way to eliminate the possibility of flybar crashes without limiting the servo throw. Which leads me to my next question.

Q: Is it possible to limit the servo throw (range)?

Thanks again for all the good info. I forget who exactly posted it, but the soup can blade balance trick worked a treat!
~Scott
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Old Mar 02, 2012, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom4416 View Post
The retainer on mine is more of a solid piece without those arms on it. Just imagine a solid disk with holes drilled where the rods enter and meet in the center. I've busted off several zip ties with some "aggressive" landings but the retainer remains intact.

I figured out yesterday that I was being way too timid with my 450. Kept trying to hover it a few inches off the ground but it kept skittering off in different directions because of ground effects. Got frustrated and finally just popped it up about 3 feet, much like I do the 9116. The difference was amazing! I could actually get it into a pretty stable hover with minimal stick input. Did a couple of FF and then piros to turn around and come back. Landing was still a bit sticky as it got closer to the ground and start moving around again so just used the throttle kill and dropped it down fairly hard from a couple of feet up. Hard for me to believe I'll someday be able to fly it without training wheels
I've found that with the negative pitch associated with throttle levels below 50, the heli is forced to the ground. The idea is if the heli is caught in a wind updraft or gust of wind, one can reduce the amount of lift to still be able to lower the heli in altitude and land, rather than it to be carried away.

This is where the finer stick control comes in. Fine the balance point between the positive and negative pitch and work the throttle stick so it comes down gently. I think our minds have been trained with the 4ch, that if we get into trouble, we just snap the throttle shut and the heli will fall, unfortunately if you do that with a CP, you actually drive it into the ground, resulting in very hard landings, and you all are probably like me, you damage the landing gear in the process.

It would be easier to have a throttle hold, to have a constant rotor head speed, and then to just adjust the pitch angle of the blades to increase or decrease the amount of lift.

I'm interested in where you got that retainer ring for your training gear, tom. I only seem to find the ones I already have.

Maybe I'll just have to make one.
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Old Mar 02, 2012, 05:10 PM
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1,246 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by spfautsch View Post
Thought I'd drop in a quick thanks to everyone who's contributed to this thread. I started researching my next purchase four days ago, and literally just finished reading the whole thing. Very good info, thanks for sharing!

Having purchased a DH9100 about a month back and being unhappy with it's lack of roll adjustment (the only way to make mine hover is nose-in in an 8' circle) I decided to do some research and see what could be done with it, and somehow found this thread. I thought it would be a nice, easy step between coaxials and a single rotor 4ch but I guess I should have done more reading. Never the less, after covering the first couple dozen pages here it became evident that a 9116 would be a better learning tool on my way to a real 6ch CP machine, with the added bonus of having a 9100 to cannibalize for parts. So I ordered one from amazon and then after a little more reading ordered the necessary parts to convert the 9100 to a 9116.

Anyway, after three days of reading I have a couple quick questions and an observation.
Welcome Scott, and good luck with the conversion.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spfautsch View Post
Q: Has anyone tried "potting" the PCB in epoxy or some other protective coating to make it more tolerant to abuse? The only concern I have is whether the coating would attenuate the microwave antenna (2.4ghz rx). The solder pads for the power and on/off loop would need to be masked off as would the connectors, but otherwise I think this would do a lot to "battle harden" the board.
I have thought a similar thing, but decided clean access to the components was more important, and I used double sided foam under the antenna pcb to give it a bit more protection and a solid feel, so it wouldn't be damaged from being "jarred" during a hard landing or minor crash, that way it was removeable later on if it was needed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spfautsch View Post
Q: I don't consider myself knowledgeable on the subject, but it appears to me there's no way this thing will fly at all without the flybar. Unlike a CP machine, the rotor head is not articulated to directly follow the motions of the swashplate. The only thing that's directly controlled by the swash is the attitude of the flybar, which then indirectly controls the blade pitch. Another way to think of this is to imagine the flybar as a gyroscope rotor, and the swashplate's function is to move the heli's CG underneath the rotor assembly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think shortening the flybar would in effect reduce the responsiveness and stability. If my assumtion is correct, I doubt there's any way to eliminate the possibility of flybar crashes without limiting the servo throw. Which leads me to my next question.
From personal experience I can tell you that there is no way it will fly without the balance/flybar. Shortening it won't work either, but one of our members has kept the length but reduced the weight of the end weights with some success. Personally, I prefer not to do mods, because I like the way it flies, and any short-comings it has, I know what it will do, in certain circumstances or situations, and I try not to get the heli into that situation in the first place.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spfautsch View Post
Q: Is it possible to limit the servo throw (range)?
I don't know about in your situation, converting a 9100 into a 9116, but in the 9116 tx, you can reduce the % in the EPA setting, which will electronically reduce the servo throw.

Quote:
Originally Posted by spfautsch View Post
Thanks again for all the good info. I forget who exactly posted it, but the soup can blade balance trick worked a treat!
~Scott
Yeah, that was me with the soup can blade balancer trick. I just re-posted up the idea, from a post that someone else had suggested in another thread. Too simple isn't it?
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Last edited by stormforce; Mar 02, 2012 at 05:26 PM.
Old Mar 02, 2012, 08:24 PM
Tom
United States, AZ, Tucson
Joined Dec 2011
248 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by stormforce View Post

This is where the finer stick control comes in. Fine the balance point between the positive and negative pitch and work the throttle stick so it comes down gently. I think our minds have been trained with the 4ch, that if we get into trouble, we just snap the throttle shut and the heli will fall, unfortunately if you do that with a CP, you actually drive it into the ground, resulting in very hard landings, and you all are probably like me, you damage the landing gear in the process.

It would be easier to have a throttle hold, to have a constant rotor head speed, and then to just adjust the pitch angle of the blades to increase or decrease the amount of lift.

I'm interested in where you got that retainer ring for your training gear, tom. I only seem to find the ones I already have.

Maybe I'll just have to make one.
I've actually started just using the throttle hold set a 0% on final approach and then throw the collective all the way up. The passive head speed is actually enough to still provide some last second lift. I learned the negative pitch issue the first time I tried to throttle land it like our 9116

The retainer disk came with the training wheels I bought from xheli.com. I wouldn't think it would be too hard to duplicate, either in a chunk of plastic or even in some nice billet aluminum if you had an appropriately shaped and sized piece. Set the angle up in the drill press and then just drill it in four spots a hair smaller than the actual rods so they had to be forced in. Heck, if it was aluminum, you could actually tap the holes and thread the rods and have a really professional setup.
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