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Old Dec 24, 2011, 03:17 AM
Crash and learn
United States, PA
Joined Dec 2011
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Stormforce,

Quote:
Originally Posted by stormforce View Post
Have you considered purchasing a micro 3.5ch heli to get the feel with? or are you going to jump right in with the 450 sized one?
Mick.
I found the one that I want - a 450 sized one.

Storm-Heli-ST-450-3G-Value
http://www.helipal.com/storm-450-3g-...ition-rtf.html

Look at the Helicox TG-1 Auto-Stabilizing 3-Axis Gyro video, that rotor is so simple even I can understand how it works.
HeliPal.com - Helicox TG-1 Auto-Stabilizing 3-Axis Gyro on Storm 450 3G Movement Test (1 min 56 sec)
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Old Dec 24, 2011, 03:50 AM
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...wow !!!

good luck with that...
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Old Dec 24, 2011, 06:21 AM
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United States, VA, Richmond
Joined Dec 2011
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Hi guys, I'm fairly new to the copter hobby. Got a indoor HZ Millennium that I've played with for some time. But I wanted something a little more advanced, faily cheap and could be flown outside, so I got the 9116. Here's my experience with the 9116 so far.

I too, noticed it wants to drift left when starting to lift off. Upon reading the book several times and checking the trim adjustments and such, I then focused my attention to the swashplate. On mine, it appeared to not be level, but rather had a sever tillt towds 10 o'clock if you looked at it from the tail. This was with the tx on and the bird spinning up some. Skimpty book says the swashplate might need adjustment. So I poped the canopy off and shortend the right server link arm. I also took off the left side canopy arm and cut a very small piece of zip tie and wedged it in between the arm and the body. This helped to move the canopy away from the server rod which allows full movement without rubbing the canopy. I haven't had the chance to test the adjustments yet. Been too windy and cold, but I'll let you know how all this works out.

I'd like to hear from others if their experience has been similar and what they've done to get this bird dialed-in. Thanks
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Old Dec 24, 2011, 08:27 AM
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United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Dec 2011
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Hello Mick and thank you for the welcome.

Well, after the first 2 days of trimming my controller, I was able to fly the heli almost all day yesterday (in between charges of course). I can pretty much keep it up throughout the whole 10 min charge. Not bad for a newbie, eh? It has also been a little windy here the last 3 or so days, which does not make it easy to try to dial in the heli. As you said, it is a feel thing. I'm trying to figure out how the heli reacts to the commands I give it. Sometimes I can't tell if the heli is moving in a particular way, or if the wind is causing it to do that? There have been periods of calm and that's when I try to fly it. They say this heli will take a slight breeze and I guess if I was more experienced, it probably would not be an issue. But, when I am just trying to learn how to fly it, the wind is not fun. I have to work on the throttle control. Like you said, right now I do have a tendency sometimes to panic if I feel it might be getting away from me, which has resulted in some hard landings, but nothing that would damage the heli. i'm surprised that I have not crashed it yet! Lol!
I saw the post earlier regarding the 7.4v 950mAh batteries, which brings up my next question...
There has to be a way to extend the flight time. You get approx 10 min on the battery. Then you have to wait an hour for it to charge before you can fly it again. In the old days with the cars and trucks we would have 2 or 3 batteries and when your battery died you just swapped it with a fresh one and put the dead one on the charger. You always had one charged and ready to go. It doesn't appear to me that swapping batteries would very easy to do on the heli. Coincidentally, I was talking to a friend of mine who is an electrician and he was telling me to change the battery. he explained milliamps to me this way. He said, milliamps determines how fast or slow the battery will hold a charge. The more milliamps, the longer the battery will hold a charge. If he is correct, and I am just trying to use logic here, then if the 7.4v 650mAh battery it comes with gives you approx. 10 min of flight, wouldn't a 7.4v 1300mAh battery give you approx. 20 min of flight? And, would it damage the heli somehow to put a battery like that in it?

Mike
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Old Dec 24, 2011, 10:00 AM
Always, against the wind
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United States, IL
Joined Oct 2011
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[QUOTE=Ribble;20221054]Stormforce,



I found the one that I want - a 450 sized one.

Storm-Heli-ST-450-3G-Value
http://www.helipal.com/storm-450-3g-...ition-rtf.html

Worth of checking this one too! It is very impressive, easy to fly and half the price, it is in my wish list (wife you know..) Check the vid in strong and gusting wind from an owner.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1540131
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Old Dec 24, 2011, 10:01 AM
Joe Scan
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United States, RI, East Providence
Joined Dec 2011
21 Posts
stormforce thanks for the great reply I followed your settings and still a no go. My heli is official DOA it only spins in one direction doesn't go up or down and on the remote I don't have any feed back from the right stick up and down feature. So I'm just going to buy another Heli and hope the new one is RTF out the box. I got this one from Banna Hobby because of the great price and the box looked opened on both ends when I got it so i'm not sure if they are going to get my business again.
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Old Dec 24, 2011, 10:48 AM
Cranky old fart
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Germantown, WI.
Joined Oct 2007
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ribble View Post

I found the one that I want - a 450 sized one.

Storm-Heli-ST-450-3G-Value
Unless you have a significant amount of experience, you will find that heli is quite a handful to fly. CP helis respond to input very quickly and don't self level at all. The 3 axis gyro's primary purpose is to replace the functions the flybar used to provide. It would help smooth and stabilize the heli, but you will already have crashed!

I'm very much in favor of people starting with something more challenging than 3 channels and coaxes. You will learn a lot more, relative to the money you spend and learn a lot faster. But a flybarless 450 is way over the top. I would suggest a Blade MSRx or 120SR as good starting points. For a more aggressive approach, try a Blade MCPx or Walkera Genius. With any of these, you will crash a lot. But, you won't suffer much damage. With a little perseverance, you will be flying well in a month and you won't have a lot more to learn.
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Old Dec 24, 2011, 11:22 AM
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United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Dec 2011
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mikesoftail03, I have spent the last 2 days getting my 9116 dialed in. You obviously red my first post about the first flight and the drifting. I too noticed the 10:00 tilt on the swashplate. But if you look at the "tripod" closely, it almost looks as if it is supposed to be like that. Did you read StormForce's reply to my post?
What I had to do to get the heli flying straight is go into the LCD menu and go to "Sub/Aile/Tri" setting and change it to "45 R" to get it to fly straight. It appears each block on the manual trim display represents approx. 40 digits on the numeric scale in the menu. Since, I had the manual control set to the first block to the right (or 5 clicks), I figured that's roughly 40 digits on a 240 point scale (0-120 L / 0-120 R). After I tested the heli, I had got it pretty close. Just had to add 5 more points and set it to "45 R" and now it flies straight.
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Old Dec 24, 2011, 12:20 PM
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mikesoftail03, I forgot to mention that I had to other corrections to make with the DH9116. Besides the hard drift left which I corrected with the previously mentioned setting. My heli also had a slight drift in reverse. I went to the "Sub/Elev/Tri" setting and changed that to "6 F" to correct that problem. Also, my heli had a slight rotation to the right. I went to the "Sub/Rudd/Tri" setting and changed that to "10 L" to correct that problem. I still might have some minor tweaking to do to get it as close to perfect as I can. But right now, it flies pretty good with the settings I changed.
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Old Dec 24, 2011, 03:11 PM
Joe Scan
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United States, RI, East Providence
Joined Dec 2011
21 Posts
I went ahead and purchased another 9116, atleast now i'll have two sets of parts. When my new one arrives hopefully I can get some flight time.
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Old Dec 24, 2011, 04:15 PM
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Hi everyone, it's christmas morning here, so merry christmas to all !!!

Majic01,

Great to hear about a crash free learning curve so far, other than the other day, I too was crash free, and considering how severe the crash actually was, I'm still surprised how little damage it obtained.

Wind is a bit problem for flying in general, but the 9116 will cope with a 1 - 5kph wind, it's more the user behind the sticks that may not be able to cope. I try to fly in all but gusty conditions, as gusty wind is too inconsistant to properly judge the correct action to take.

In regards to the 7.4vdc 1300maH Li-ion. I replaced the OEM 7.4vdc 650maH battery with a 900maH battery, and in the 15 odd flights I had it installed, I had no problems with it, but I did notice the main motor getting a bit too hot to touch when I walked inside to charge it, but in hindsight, I never touched the main motor after a full battery's flight with the OEM battery, so I really have no basis for comparison. It probably got just as hot with the OEM one, I just never tested it. It has been too windy here to fly my 9116, so I haven't had the opportunity to test whether the OEM battery makes the motor too hot to touch with that, but I would surmise, it probably would. I did feel with the 900maH Li-Po battery made the heli more responsive, but again it was a "feel" thing. I think considering how cheap this heli is, if you decided to replace the battery with a larger capacity 1300mah, even if it did damage it somehwat, it would be because the heli itself is made from poor quality components or the quality control wasn't up to scratch, that can't handle performance improvements as simple as upgrading the battery, rather than poor user maintenence or flying techniques. I have a 1300maH Li-Ion from a replacement battery for my DH9101 that was supplied by mistake and the dimensions of it are quite a bit bigger than the 650maH, but if it can be installed without too many modifications, it may be worth a try. I think your reasoning and logic would hold somewhat true, but as I stated earlier, it will be a trade off between the additonal weight and the increase in your flight times, I doubt you'll get an extra 10 minutes flight time from it, maybe a total of 15 - 18 minutes perhaps? You'll have to workout the balance issue with the nose being heavier too. If you decide to continue with the larger capacity battery improvement, keep us informed and we'll help as much as we can. I think it's do-able, but if you really put your mind to it, anything is possible, with enough knowledge and expertise. As to quick-changing the battery, in mine, there is a plastic "strap" held by two screws and a small piece of double sided foam tape holding the battery in position and a cable "zip' tie stopping the leads from moving. I suppose one could modify it somewhat to be easier to swap out the battery and replace it with a fresh fully charged one, I just haven't considered doing it yet. I might have a go at doing the same as I have numerous spare batteries. I usually leave out the retaining screw to allow me quicker access to the PCB and rotor head for adjustments, as I feel the canopy is adequately held by just the two clips, so maybe a small cradle can be made to slip the battery into without having to unscrew the restraining strap might be the answer. Maybe replacing the retaining strap with a velcro strap, but the OEM retaining strap also has a raised tab to help support PCB and help dissipate any vibrations from damaging the PCB. Once we address that issue, I think we will be able to manufacture a reasonable system that will work.

Joescan,

I'm so sorry to hear it didn't work, maybe the PCB is damaged in some way, but I think you made the right decision in buying another. If you are prepared to, have a go using the new TX with the old heli and see if there is any change, and if the old heli works with the new TX, you'll be able to fly one and charge the other, as long as both are set up identically. If not, you'll have one to part out if required. I hope everything works out for you and you keep us informed with your progress.

Mick.
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Last edited by stormforce; Dec 24, 2011 at 05:33 PM.
Old Dec 24, 2011, 04:41 PM
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Ribble,

In time, I'd consider something like that heli, but for now, it's a long way into the future for me, at least. Only you can make the decision that's right for you. My Walkera 22e is shelved for the duration, because I was over confident in my abilities to fly it and I'm lucky I only managed to damage 10 sets of blades in 2 days and nothing more, and I didn't even get it two inches off the ground!!!
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Last edited by stormforce; Dec 24, 2011 at 05:28 PM.
Old Dec 24, 2011, 05:57 PM
Crash and learn
United States, PA
Joined Dec 2011
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Balr14
Quote:
Originally Posted by Balr14 View Post
The 3 axis gyro's primary purpose is to replace the functions the flybar used to provide.
To be clear, it is the simplicity of the rotor. I spend a lot of hours looking at 450 class rotors/swashplates and have no desire to repair and adjust the ones I've seen so far. But I do want something that is as much a challenge to fly as the simulators.

In the interlude, I am getting a DH9104 and either I learn to fly it or I don't. Time is on my side, no rush.

You guys have been through this process and know what I don't know. Keep posting and I'll keep reading. Thanks for being here.
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Old Dec 24, 2011, 06:04 PM
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mikesoftail03,

It doesn't take much to "dial in", but no wind does help considerably in successfully getting it right. The rudder trim will need constant trimming as the voltage drops, but thats pretty normal for most of the cheaper heli's I've found.

Mine seems to not want to take off quickly like other heli's I've found. It takes off rather sedately, which gives me the indication it's probably due to the TX settings rather than the "C" burst of the battery, which is pretty low to start with. The throttle curve is quite smooth and linear starting from 0% and jumps to 50%, then 75% than 100%, maybe a jump to from 0% to 60%, 85% then 100% would be better suited to the more advanced or experienced pilots.

The swashplate is set at that angle to compsate somewhat for the motor torque and rotor spin / centrifugal force wanting to tilt the heli further to the left. It's a symptom of it's simplistic design. Others have added a small weight to the right skid to act as a counter balance, and others have adjusted the servo link to combat it further, but I prefer not to add additional weight that may affect flight duration times and I won't adjust the servo link as I feel it may affect the servo throw. I just live with it.

I too slipped a spacer under the canopy clip to allow the servo link not to rub on the canopy, a 4mm aluminium spacer drilled and cut to size, then painted, helped, but it still rubs on the canopy, but only on full throw. I did heat up that part of the canopy with a hairdrier and while soft, molded it with my fingers so it would be out of the way but on closer inspection, the way the servo position is slightly out of alignment with the position of the servo link and ball on the swashplate, I think to re-position the servo to the inside of the frame would be better suited, as I have noticed on full throw forward the plastic servo arm is severely stressed outwards, forcing the "dog leg" of the servo link outwards and thats why it touches the canopy. I feel in time this flexing and stress will weaken the arm, causing it to fail at any given moment. So far this hasn't happened, but I'm sure it will eventually. Once I work out how I am to do this, I'll show you all if the design mod works the way I think it will.

Here's what it looks like at rest



...and stressed on full throw.



So stay tune folks !!!
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Last edited by stormforce; Dec 24, 2011 at 07:46 PM.
Old Dec 24, 2011, 07:54 PM
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Ok, here's the fix for the servo arm link touching the canopy, and in my opinion stress flexing the servo arm.

Image one is to illustrate the need to move the whole servo over to the other side wall of the frame. The servo is usually removed by uncrewing the retaining screws, and simply pulling it out, but for this mod, I need the servo screw tabs to be on the inside, not the outside. So I removed the servo completely from the frame, glued with superglue, two small replacement nuts to the inside of the tabs, then removed enough screws and the main shaft and mounting block to allow me to slip the sevo between the two sides of the frame. After a quick alignment to estimate how much the servo is to be moved, I found a small zip tie was just wide enough to slip on the between the body of the servo and the screws, this gave me the desired adjustment I need to keep the servo in position. I apologise for the quality of the image.



Then I replaced all the parts and screws and checked the alignment of the servo arm and link with the ball on the swashplate. This is at rest, compare this image to the previous post image at rest. The left image is before, right image is after.



Once I checked everything was ok, I then switched the TX and the heli on and checked to see if the servo arm no longer flexed and link "dog leg" end was well clear of the canopy. I left the spacer under the canopy clip, as when I initially installed it, it needed longer screws, but I only had some slightly larger and longer screws that would do the job, so removing the spacer and using the old thinner screws was not possible, because of the now larger hole.

The left image is before, right image is after.



On contemplation, I should have used some thin double sided foam tape and just taped it to the other servo rather than using longer screws and nuts, as they will probably put strain on the screw tabs eventually making them weaker and not able to hold the servo in place. I'll do that now.
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Last edited by stormforce; Dec 24, 2011 at 09:00 PM.
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