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Old Dec 22, 2011, 04:56 AM
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You won't have the control to get the nose down without going forward with the DH9104, it's how it gets it's forward movement, by tilting the nose down therefore some of the lift is directed backwards. I flies like the heli is connected to a long string, you move forward and it dips down and flies forwards, then rises again at the top of the "stroke", if you don't do anything, it will spin around by itself and go back the way it came, in the same manner, unless you take some corrective action or tell it to do something different. There is no side shift, just forwards, backwards, up & down, spin left/right. Slight forward or backward movement is possible, but it's more of a forward or backward drift hover than real forward or backward flight. This is because the swashplate is fitted backwards and the pivot point is at the front and it is pivoted from the rear, and it only has one servo, rather than pivoting at the rear directly above the two servos that are independantly controlled with a floating control bar at the front, as in a 4 ch heli. The DH9116 however is more like a helicopter we have come to expect, with real sustained forward movement and more precise control for hovering, however in full forward flight, it too will suffer from the "pendulum effect" as it's become known, but it is more controllable and by design, it has less of an effect on it's flying characteristics.

I own two of the smaller versions of the DH9104, the DH9100 and if it's anything like they are, my previous comments still stand.

Mick.
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Old Dec 22, 2011, 03:54 PM
Joe Scan
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United States, RI, East Providence
Joined Dec 2011
21 Posts
I can't figure it out, my Heli is just a mess now. I have changed every setting multipal times with new luck. I'm just going to start buying replacment parts because somthing most be damaged. I'll buy a new remote and a receiver because it's either one of those.
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Old Dec 22, 2011, 06:19 PM
Different fly 4 different guy
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Canada, BC, Salmon Arm
Joined Jan 2011
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Hey guys when you're looking for replacement batteries there are some other things to consider.

Some of the stock batteries are 'optimistically' rated and have less mah capacity than claimed. Also stock batteries tend to have a very low 'c' discharge rating, often only 10c to 15c.

The mah rating is kind of like the amount of fuel in the tank while the 'c' rating is how quickly that fuel can be delivered or discharged. Just adding more fuel or mah might only make the heli heavier.

A higher quality battery of same, or even lower mah but with a 20c or 25c rating is often better than going with more mah's. Either way there will be more strain on the heli's motors and temperatures should always be monitored, and flight lengths adjusted accordingly.

Example:

I have a heavy 4ch heli with a 3.7V-500mah battery. Flight times were 2-1/2 minutes of hard flying plus maybe 2 minutes more of hovering.

With a replacement Zippy 400mah 20c battery, which is lighter, flight times are 5 minutes of full power.
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Old Dec 23, 2011, 12:51 AM
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Thanks gordonzo, I never realised that was the case.

I learn something new everyday on this forum...

Joescan, I'm so sorry it's not working out for you. Did you buy the heli from a local shop or off the net? either way, since it hasn't been flown much, maybe you could do a dodgy deal and scream rip-off, then try to get a replacement? Either way a new transmitter is available on eBay and they will bind with the old heli, then at a later stage you could find out if someone else is willing to have a go at re-setting it back to the factory settings.

Maybe some nice person on this forum that lives nearby can help?

...or maybe, you should just buy another whole DH9116 kit and keep the old one for spares, as you'll probably need them anyway once you get on the learning curve and do some training flying, and depending on how many parts you are thinking you may break, it will probably work out cheaper than collectively buying all the parts you think you may need in the future.

I'm in Australia, so it may be a bit far for me to go and help you out as a day trip. Maybe when I get enough "frequent flier" points up, does flying toy helicopters count???

Mick.

Mick.
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Old Dec 23, 2011, 01:25 AM
Crash and learn
United States, PA
Joined Dec 2011
1,605 Posts
Thanks gordonzo. DH9104 supposedly has a 1300mah Li Ion battery. Replacement cells are Lipo 2650mah 20C. I thought LiPo cells are less weight because there is no metal casing. Either way, I will likely do a lot of ground skidding or low level hovers until I learn to fly the thing.

Also read in "RADD'S SCHOOL OF ROTARY FLIGHT" about building a LiPo pack, although he doesn't caution too much about the dangers in doing it. Still, I will encase the new pack in some large heatshrink tubing or something more rugged if it looks like it could be readily punctured.
http://www.dream-models.com/eco/LipoPack.html
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Old Dec 23, 2011, 02:18 AM
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I wouldn't worry too much, Ribble. If something punctures the canopy enough to pierce the li-po bag, you've got about 1 - 5 seconds before the Li-Po bursts into flames and I doubt a layer of heat shrink will protect it any better than the original casing, but if you are going to make your own, then of course use some heatshrink to tidy things up, but as I wrote earlier, I wouldn't recommend making your own from larger capacity ones.

If you are really worried about the Li-Po getting damaged, you can buy hard cased Li-Po batteries for R/C cars and 4WD buggies, there are plenty of them on eBay, but they are a bit more expensive and may not fit properly in your heli, plus they have the added weight of the external case.

If you really want to protect the Li-Po, wrap it in some self-adhesive carbon fibre sheet, it's extremely tough and resilient and will protect it from most damage except transferred shock. It can be obtained in sizes to suit your needs. But it's still, in my opinion, un-neccersary and additional weight.

If you research how a Li-Po is structured during manufacture, you will soon realise that theres not much more can be done to protect them from harm.

The most likely damage you will have when learning to fly is blades hitting the ground and breaking anything connected to it. The reason is as the heli starts to lift off the ground, the "ground effect" will upset it, and there is a good chance on the first one or two lift offs the heli will just lift off the ground and fall on it's side, hitting the ground with it's blades in the process. It's best to apply the throttle in small amounts first off til it starts to spin up then just enough to get the heli to become "light" on it's skids (which should be just over 50% throttle) and starts to jump around a bit, then, give it a quick burst of throttle, not full on, but just a bit more, then as it gets about 2ft off the ground, slowly lower the throttle until the heli stops climbing to obtain a hover, adjust the rudder trim to stop it from spinning. Once it's stopped spinning (it may drift a bit to the side or front or back, don't worry about it for the time being, remember you are learning to "crawl" before you can "walk"), slowly lower the throttle and land, it may not be pretty, but it doesn't have to be at this stage, as long as you are smooth and gentle with the sticks. Keep doing that until your confidence grows and you can do it in your sleep, the use of the controls must become second nature, just like using a combination of the foot throttle and the clutch to take off in a car. Once you've mastered that, then attempt some short trips, like take off, go forward a few feet, bring it to a hover, then land. The rest will come in time, as long as you have the patience, perserverance and dedication.

Mick.
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Old Dec 23, 2011, 03:19 AM
Crash and learn
United States, PA
Joined Dec 2011
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Well, I do have training gear and in videos that I watched of skidding and hopping, the training gear always kept the helicopter upright.

My problem is orientation. With fixed wing getting the aircraft up to 50 feet was no problem. But bringing it back down is another matter when there are people and cars below.

So, I try a helicopter and get used to tail in, nose in, and side in, before getting it off the ground. At least I can take my time with it and do that indoors without worrying about killing someone.
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Old Dec 23, 2011, 03:50 AM
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yep, you'll be ok I bet. Maybe it's just me, but I won't try to use my Walkera 22e CP without training gear on, it's just scary the head speed it has, as opposed to the sedate head speed of the Double Horse heli's, but the walkera's blades are twice the length and not pitched like the DH heli's so they need the headspeed.

I've found the heli's orientation in the sky is considerably better in real life than on a sim, I reckon it's the 3d depth perception as opposed to the 2d on a computer screen.

Have you considered purchasing a micro 3.5ch heli to get the feel with? or are you going to jump right in with the 450 sized one? I started with a micro co-axial, then went to the DH9101 450 sized co-axial, but I wanted more forward speed but didn't have the confidence for a 4ch, so got a DH9100, loved the speed, but not the lack of precise control, so now I'm on the DH9116 and loving it, soon, maybe a couple of months into next year I'll try again with the walkera and be more successful in keeping it airbourne than I have been.

Mick.
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Last edited by stormforce; Dec 23, 2011 at 03:59 AM.
Old Dec 23, 2011, 04:08 AM
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Here's my current stable of toy helicopters...



They are from left to right;

S007G avatar 4ch, co-axial, micro
Xieda 9958 4ch, fixed pitch, micro
DH9098 3.5ch, co-axial, micro
2 x DH9100 3.5ch, fixed pitch, single blade
DH9116 4ch, fixed pitch, single blade
Walkera 22e FM 6ch, 3D, collective pitch with full cnc machined alloy rotor head, brushless main motor, 11.1vdc 1000mah turnigy battery, new 450 sized "super skid" support struts and skids, stronger tail boom supports and direct drive tail rotor and larger tail motor, all as an upgrade kit (the "beast")
DH9101 3.5ch, co-axial, 450 sized "wind bag" with FPV video/still onboard camera - 4Gb memory.
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Old Dec 23, 2011, 09:59 AM
Always, against the wind
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United States, IL
Joined Oct 2011
1,043 Posts
[QUOTE=stormforce;20212864]Here's my current stable of toy helicopters...

Nice collection Stomforce.

I do have a dh 9104 so far so good by following the mods from YouTube. With the 14 grams weight in the nose and another 14 grams weight on the left skid, it does fairly OK in a calm day. Definitely is not a wind fighter as well as the 9116 as I understand but I ordered last night the 9116 from Amazon. It will be delivered on Dec.29. Great thread learned a lot.
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Old Dec 23, 2011, 01:35 PM
Joe Scan
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United States, RI, East Providence
Joined Dec 2011
21 Posts
Thanks stormforce but I need all the values. You have listed some but not all. I'm looking for every single value so I can atleast have settings I know work for someone else. I might have a bad heli from the getgo but I want to make sure my settins match someone else to the T before I start buying replacment parts or a whole new Heli.
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Old Dec 23, 2011, 05:00 PM
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Joescan, I'm not familiar with going into the settings yet, but this is exactly what I get, in sequence;

All stick trims are centered, throttle stick is at it's lowest position; rocker switch is in the 'quick" position.

Switch the TX on; the battery voltage indicator shows full and the actual voltage value flashes and fluctuates between 7.6vdc and 8.1vdc; the red LED flashes and the buzzer beeps quickly 14 times quickly, then changes to a higher pitch single beep and falls silent; red LED stops flashing.

-----------------------------------------------------

Long press of the MENU button; after 1 second the backlight glows;

MODE Flashes; 2 is visible

Press of the MENU button and ELEV SUB F flashes - 000 ("F" suddenly appears next to the RUDD TRI)

press of the SEL button, AILE SUB L flashes - 000
press of the SEL button, THRO SUB F flashes - 000
press of the SEL button, RUDD SUB L flashes - 000

press of the SEL button, back to ELEV SUB F flashes - 000

press of the MENU button, ELEV D/R - 100%

press of the SEL button, AILE D/R flashes - 100%
press of the SEL button, RUDD D/R flashes - 100%

press of the SEL button, back to ELEV D/R flashes - 100%

press of the MENU button, ELEV REV flashes - REV

press of the SEL button, AILE REV flashes - REV
press of the SEL button, THRO REV flashes - NOA
press of the SEL button, RUDD REV flashes - REV

press of the SEL button, back to ELEV REV flashes - REV

press of the MENU button, ELEV EPA flashes - 100% (RUDD TRI changes to F)

press of the SEL button, AILE EPA - 100% (RUDD TRI changes to A or R)
press of the SEL button, RUDD EPA - 100% (RUDD still at A or R)

press of the SEL button, back to ELEV EPA flashes - 100% (RUDD TRI changes back to F)

press of the MENU button, THRO TRI 0 - 000%

press of the SEL button, THRO TRI 1 - 000% (OR I, can't tell, probably 1)
press of the SEL button, THRO TRI 2 - 050%
press of the SEL button, THRO TRI 3 - 075%
press of the SEL button, THRO TRI 4 - 100%

press of the SEL button, back to THRO TRI 0 - 000%

press of the MENU button, back to mode - 2

END OF MENU

-----------------------------------------------------

That seems to be all I get without pressing the "up" & down" buttons which obviously changes the settings.

Mick.
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Old Dec 23, 2011, 08:07 PM
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Thanks Thetis,

I could say it's taken a lot of time and money to get my stable, but it only took three months and not much money, thanks to eBay.

I've yet to see a DH9104 in the flesh, so to speak, and maybe one day I'll buy one, but I've progressed to the 4ch heli's, so flying a 3.5ch is going backwards in my opinion, and I'm all for going forwards at present.

I'd be interested in how they fly and any experiences from flying them though.

Mick.
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Old Dec 23, 2011, 08:56 PM
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United States, CA, San Diego
Joined Dec 2011
71 Posts
Shuang Ma - DH9116

Hi everybody,

Just a little background:
I am new to this site and also new to this hobby. I am probably much older than most of you guys, but not that old! Anyway, when I was a teenager, I used to have R/C cars and trucks, then later got into gliders and planes. It has been many years since I have operated an R/C vehicle, and I have never flown a helicopter before.

I recently purchased a Shuang Ma DH9116. I don't know nearly as much about helicopters as any of you guys, and there are much better helicopters out there for sure. But I didn't want to fork out $300 or $400 on a helicopter when I don't even know what I'm doing yet. I figured for $79 what do I have to lose? A 4-channel heli for 80 bucks is pretty amazing and I thought would be a good begginer heli for me. I can always move up later when I get better, right?

I do have a techinical question about the heli. I ordered it for x-mas and it arrived 2 days ago. I have spent the last 2 days trying get it dialed in. when I flew it for the first time, it didn't get more than a foot off the ground and I immediatly noticed it was drifting hard to the left, a little bit in reverse and also a little rotation to the right. After a few trim adjustents, I got it to fly pretty straight and level. This heli comes with an LCD programmable controller as some of you may already know. After figuring out the correct scale for the aile/elev & rudd trim settings that I need to convert to program them in to the box. It turns out my aile trim needs to be set to 45 R (on a 0-120 scale), which corresponds to the 5 clicks R on the manual setting. The problem is, the heli left flies much easier than it right flies. in other words, it doesn't tilt as far to the right as it does to the left. Does anybody know how I can fix that?

Thanks,

Mike
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Old Dec 24, 2011, 01:41 AM
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Hi Mike and welcome,

I'm 48 years old, so I am probably nearer to your age group (I assume), and I too played with r/c planes as a kid, control line stuff mainly (Cox P38 actually), then life took over and I forgot about it. Now I'm earning some decent money and have no kids, and I thought I'd re-visit my childhood, with a large enough disposable cash flow to match my wants and desires.

The DH9116 is a helicopter that YOU have to fly, it will hover "hands off" for a little while, but not for long, like a 3.5ch co-axial heli. It's because of the 45 degree balance bar and the "pendulum effect" having a large impact on it's flight characteristics.

Anyway, because of the rear rotor, the heli will have a lean to the left to counter the torque of the main blades and motor, ideally it should be manually adjusted by lengthening or shortening the right servo link (I think, looking from the tail end) from the servo arm to the swashplate (you may not see the screw threads, but they are there), a half turn one way or the other and a quick test flight will give an indication of how much or less it needs to go. Same with the reverse drift where you adjust the left servo link. If you hold the heli and look at the servos from the rear of the heli, and get the blades spinning, then apply the relevant stick direction, you will see which servo and link that makes the heli move in a particular direction, that is the link you need to adjust. It can be done via the trims, but you may loose those settings if the batteries are replaced in the TX (for me this usually re-sets the TX back to factory settings, but in another forum members case, as you most likely have read, it hasn't).

As per taking off, how far would you estimate you get the heli off the ground when you notice these actions. The ground effect (that can make the heli drift in reverse and to the right in most cases) is most prominent within double the height of the total width of the main rotor blades, hence the need to get it above approx. 2 ft from the ground before attempting to go straight into a hover. All heli's no matter how expensive or cheap, have this inherent problem, it's to do with main rotor backwash, that creates uneven air tubulence and pockets of instability, but it's increasingly apparent the slower you attempt to take off. The downdraft of air from the two blades isn't uniform, it's quite "choppy". This is also prevalent in proper life sized helicopters. I suppose that is one reason for multiple rotor blades, to generate more lift with the same restrictive rotor head speed, to provide an even, less tubulent, and hence smoother, downward thrust for when hovering near the ground or during landing (I'm only guessing though logical deduction and reasoning and will stand corrected if someone else can explain the more appropriate reason, we'll probably get a short lesson in physics to boot). With all the heli's I own, except the co-axials, hovering is the the most difficult thing to master, to get a heli to hover well, not just at altitude, but inches from the ground. It's not impossible, just pretty darn difficult at the beginning. You need to anticipate what it is going to do by watching the subtle clues in it's flight, and move the sticks gently, rather than reacting with sharp movements to the sticks when it may already be too late. It's a "feel" thing and you'll know when you've got it or getting it, because you'll no longer be crashing as often and every time you fly it you'll just keep getting better and better, and your confidence will sky rocket proportionally.

I try not to adjust anything in the settings or manually on any heli, just the occasional trim adjustment, but I choose to rather fly around an issue, that way, if something slips or comes out of adjustment, I have the knowledge and experience to correct it and get it to the ground safely, rather than panic, drop the throttle and let it fall to the ground, which as you can imagine, can have disasterous consequences. We had a saying in the Aust. Army that I think equally applies to flying helicopters, "train hard, fight easy". I think if you start to learn to fly thinking or anticipating that something will go wrong, when it does, you'll be just that little bit mentally and/or physically prepared to do something about it sooner.

Mick.
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