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Old Jul 19, 2012, 06:55 PM
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The Q/S switch is a so called "Dual Rate" switch. In quick, you get full control of the servo's, how ever in slow, you get about half of that control. There may also be some mixing in the programming as well, but I doubt it. Generally, slow is for indoor or raw beginner flying and hovering, and quick is for outdoor and intermediate to advanced skill level of flying.

As for the throttle, that sounds about right. Throttle response is dependent on 2 things, the condition of the main motor and the condition of the battery. I know this is a new heli, but it's not uncommon for either the motor or the battery to be a dud out of the box. I would try replacing and upgrading the battery first to the recommended 900mAh LiPo, as others have done, preferably a 20C to 25C rated battery, as the oem battery would be about a 10 - 15C Li-Ion, (don't believe on the battery when it states it's a LiPo, it isn't). Then get a proper programmable balancer / charger like a Turnigy Accucell 6, Imax 6 or Thunder Power AC6, and a banana plug to jst adapter cable, as I have always thought the oem charger doesn't charge the cells properly or enough to keep them in prime condition.

If you still find it's a bit slow and lacking power (don't expect too much from it) try replacing the motor.

Oh, I nearly forgot. It takes a few charge / discharge cycles for the battery to come up to full capacity, so for the first couple of flights it may seem a bit slow, but as the charging cycles increase, so will the performance capabilities of the battery. All batteries need to be formed and treated properly, otherwise they may die an early death. Make sure when you fly it, if you find the heli starts to become difficult to keep airborne and you find you have to add more and more throttle to keep it up, bring it down and re-charge it, but let the battery rest for 5 - 10 mins before putting it on the charger, to cool down internally.

The cut off point for a properly formed battery is about 17min for my 900mAh LiPo, which brings the voltage to about 3.2vdc from a fully charged 4.2vdc. Anywhere between 3.5vdc to 3.2vdc you should start to think about bring it down.

My suggestion is to grab a small digital watch and tape it to the front of the transmitter, when you go to take off, take note of the time, then occasionally glance at the time during your flight session and bring the heli down at the 17min mark, regardless of whether you think the heli has more flying time in it. Dropping the voltage past the limit will damage the battery and shorten it's service life.

As to the heli not hovering in the same position, you will need to adjust the elevator link to compensate for that forwards drift. The elevator servo link is on the left side looking from the back. Flick off the plastic hoop, that is on the ball on the swashplate and turn it counter clockwise / left to lengthen, clockwise / right to shorten. Since it has a bias to the front, the link needs to be lengthened. Think of the swashplate as a seesaw in a playground and the main shaft as the fulcrum point, to get a seesaw to balance the plank must be adjusted equally on both sides, and the planks must be balanced in weight and length, so to get the heli to hover level without much drifting, the swashplate must be balanced and leveled, but you must also compensate for torque from the main motor and the tail, plus the overall balance of the heli itself. To balance the heli, tie some string or sewing thread to the top of the main shaft above the blades and suspend the heli by the string. If the heli is bias one way or another, you must adjust the heli weight so it hangs level. This may require you to shift the position of the battery back towards the main shaft, or add weight to the top of the battery or inside the nose of the canopy, like adding some coins or like I use self-adhesive sports / mag wheel tyre balance weights, like 5g or 10g and add more or less to fine tune. Once the heli is balanced, you will need to adjust the servo links. The links can be adjusted so to keep the swashplate level or at the correct position so the heli will hover level. The point of getting the heli to hover hands free without much stick input is to find the swashplate's "sweet spot". This position will give you the maximum amount of control in both directions for a particular servo.

It's all about balance with heli's, if the balance is off, so will the heli. Someone once called hovering a heli like trying to balance a basketball on a golf ball, of course that is for more advanced collective pitch helicopters, but the same theory still applies to the 9116, the flybar dampens the response, so it's not as crucial, but you still have to work at it to get it to hover properly.
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 07:41 PM
Fly Fast, Fly Hard, Fly Fun
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Joined Apr 2012
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Quote:
The cut off point for a properly formed battery is about 17min for my 900mAh LiPo
Yikes! That's quite a bit of flight time Stormforce. I'm looking forward to trying this.
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 07:57 PM
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If I'm just flying, and no hovering other than a quick trim hover at startup and a descending hover to land, I get 17mins. If I have a trimming session, with mostly hovering it's about 15mins, with the "Akku" 900mAh LiPo.

It also depends on the amount of wind too. If I am fighting wind, and flying into it or wind surfing, times can be down to 12mins, as you use more throttle trying to combat the winds effects, but on perfectly calm days, I have got 20mins from one charge, but it's rare and I'm probably pushing the battery too hard.

These "Akku" 900mAh LiPo's are pretty good, I've used the same one in mine now since november last year and it's still going strong, and I have 3 backup spares in waiting, so they are quite cost effective, with great performance characteristics to boot.
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 08:06 PM
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Joined Mar 2012
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Many of the responses you write Stormforce, should be printed and put in any beginners personal flight manuel. Clear, sincere and accurate.

Got into helicopters, little 3 ch I was hooked. The site of this little thing under my control in the living room flying. You know, everybody here knows.

Of the three 9116's I have, two don't fly. One won't lite up (red lite), flew off and came, found on a roof and returned. (parts). The one that should fly won't bind. It had a lite that flashed and went to solid red, tx on or off. Put a new board in it now it goes from fast to slow but won't bind. I have two tx's that both bind to the one good heli but neither will bind to the other one.

Any thoughts you can share on this?

Thank you,
DJ
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 08:27 PM
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Have you tried lowering the throttle trim all the way down, hold both sticks down, like with a rubber / elastic band, then power up the heli while it still beeping (binding mode)? For some strange reason, if the tx has been converted from mode 1 to mode 2, either by yourself or at the factory, using just the throttle stick to assist in the binding procedure will fail. Someone ages ago asked the factory for the correct binding procedure and it was stated the throttle stick and trim must be in the lowest position possible while the tx is in the beeping/ binding mode on power up.

Re-binding can be a hit or miss affair, especially if it's a new pcb. There are numerous ways to do it, and it can take a few times to get it to bind successfully.

I have considered writing a beginners manual, but I'm not that good at writing, I deviate off topic quite easily and my mind races ahead of myself and I go off on some obscure tangent, as you've probably noticed. And now since this thread has become such a monster, it's going to be a monumental task to compile it together. The tech manual covers most applications, and could do with elaborating some more, but as with most of us, it takes time, which for me is in short supply. One day perhaps...
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 09:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Sculptor View Post
Got into helicopters, little 3 ch I was hooked. The site of this little thing under my control in the living room flying. You know, everybody here knows.
yes, my very first heli, was actually an IR indoor single blade 4ch with a flybar. I flew it so much the motor only lasted a fortnight, so I was constantly buying new heli's (they were $25 each), but the joy to be able to control something like that always stayed with me, so when I had some spare funds, my thoughts came back to rc heli's, and the addiction began.

My fascination with things that fly has always been with me since a child, especially living between an air force base and an aerodrome for light aircraft, and living under the flight paths of both, I always saw planes and heli's of various sizes and makes everyday. One of our regular family outings was to go to the yearly open day at the nearest air force base to watch flying displays and to look at the warplanes displayed there. Thankfully the airforce base (RAAF Edinburgh) was a multi-tasking airbase with fighters, bombers (Dassault "Mirage" and General Dynamics F-111), and submarine chasers (Lockheed P-3 "Orion") as well as the standard transport planes (Lockheed C-130 "Hercules" and the De Havilland DC-4 "Caribou") and of course the general purpose Bell UH-1 "Iroquios", and double rotored Boering Vertol "Chinook" and the Military version of the Bell 206 "Jetranger" called the "Kiowa". It was a training base, so there was also the "Aermacchi MB 326" jet trainers.

I enlisted in the Australian Army in 1982 with the goal of joining the Aviation Corps, but there was only two positions available during basic training and I missed out. I wanted to become a load master on an Iroquois, but that wasn't to be, but I did have many flights in them, along with, at various times, being a passenger in a Hercules and Chinook, while serving with the only mechanised infantry battalion in the Aust. Army as a regimental signaller / radio tech, it only served to fuel my love of flying. I even jumped out of few (Hercules and Caribou) to earn my parachute wings (static and freefall). I was young and fearless back then and the thrill of freefalling is one of the best and most frightening experiences of my life, and if my heart could handle it, I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

Nowadays, the closest I can get to flying is to ride a motorcycle, which I have an 1987 american imported kawasaki ZL1000 and I ride it like I stole it, all the time, just for that feeling of banking turns like you would feel if I was flying. I get my fix everyday as a motorcycle postal delivery officer. So you could say flying is in my blood and it is the core of my being.

Anyway, this is going off topic, so back to the topic at hand...
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Last edited by stormforce; Jul 19, 2012 at 09:14 PM.
Old Jul 19, 2012, 09:31 PM
Leland
Joined Jul 2012
252 Posts
Crashed....

Earlier today I strapped a bullet cam to my 9116 again. Well I got the copter really high...I would say just over a thousand feet. The helicopter was a speck in the sky...long story short I came down to about 50 feet and all of sudden all hell broke loose and it went crashing to the ground...???

Here is the video, but I still have no idea what happened. The camera took the blunt of the trauma and was scattered across the ground.

9116 W/Camera 1000 FEET RC CRASH! (2 min 46 sec)


Thoughts?
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 09:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ljryeaiii View Post
came down to about 50 feet and all of sudden all hell broke loose and it went crashing to the ground...???

Here is the video, but I still have no idea what happened. The camera took the blunt of the trauma and was scattered across the ground.
The motor interruptions sound like radio interference from the camera.
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 09:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ljryeaiii View Post
Earlier today I strapped a bullet cam to my 9116 again. Well I got the copter really high...I would say just over a thousand feet. The helicopter was a speck in the sky...long story short I came down to about 50 feet and all of sudden all hell broke loose and it went crashing to the ground...???

Here is the video, but I still have no idea what happened. The camera took the blunt of the trauma and was scattered across the ground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZEio...ature=youtu.be

Thoughts?
My first thought was that you got out of the range of the transmitter but after the heli started to come down you should have been in range. My best guess is that the main motor is starting to give you some problems (i.e. getting weak and may need to be replaced). I've had the main motor cut out and then come back one - just like in your video and after I replaced the main motor the problem went away.

Mike
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 10:02 PM
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Joined Mar 2012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormforce View Post
yes, my very first heli, was actually an IR indoor single blade 4ch with a flybar. I flew it so much the motor only lasted a fortnight, so I was constantly buying new heli's (they were $25 each), but the joy to be able to control something like that always stayed with me, so when I had some spare funds, my thoughts came back to rc heli's, and the addiction began.

My fascination with things that fly has always been with me since a child, especially living between an air force base and an aerodrome for light aircraft, and living under the flight paths of both, I always saw planes and heli's of various sizes and makes everyday. One of our regular family outings was to go to the yearly open day at the nearest air force base to watch flying displays and to look at the warplanes displayed there. Thankfully the airforce base (RAAF Edinburgh) was a multi-tasking airbase with fighters, bombers (Dassault "Mirage" and General Dynamics F-111), and submarine chasers (Lockheed P-3 "Orion") as well as the standard transport planes (Lockheed C-130 "Hercules" and the De Havilland DC-4 "Caribou") and of course the general purpose Bell UH-1 "Iroquios", and double rotored Boering Vertol "Chinook" and the Military version of the Bell 206 "Jetranger" called the "Kiowa". It was a training base, so there was also the "Aermacchi MB 326" jet trainers.

I enlisted in the Australian Army in 1982 with the goal of joining the Aviation Corps, but there was only two positions available during basic training and I missed out. I wanted to become a load master on an Iroquois, but that wasn't to be, but I did have many flights in them, along with, at various times, being a passenger in a Hercules and Chinook, while serving with the only mechanised infantry battalion in the Aust. Army as a regimental signaller / radio tech, it only served to fuel my love of flying. I even jumped out of few (Hercules and Caribou) to earn my parachute wings (static and freefall). I was young and fearless back then and the thrill of freefalling is one of the best and most frightening experiences of my life, and if my heart could handle it, I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

Nowadays, the closest I can get to flying is to ride a motorcycle, which I have an 1987 american imported kawasaki ZL1000 and I ride it like I stole it, all the time, just for that feeling of banking turns like you would feel if I was flying. I get my fix everyday as a motorcycle postal delivery officer. So you could say flying is in my blood and it is the core of my being.

Anyway, this is going off topic, so back to the topic at hand...
Stormforce I now have a better understand of where your powers of contribution come from. Thanks for the incite,

DJ
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 10:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormforce View Post
The Q/S switch is a so called "Dual Rate" switch. In quick, you get full control of the servo's, how ever in slow, you get about half of that control. There may also be some mixing in the programming as well, but I doubt it. Generally, slow is for indoor or raw beginner flying and hovering, and quick is for outdoor and intermediate to advanced skill level of flying.

As for the throttle, that sounds about right. Throttle response is dependent on 2 things, the condition of the main motor and the condition of the battery. I know this is a new heli, but it's not uncommon for either the motor or the battery to be a dud out of the box. I would try replacing and upgrading the battery first to the recommended 900mAh LiPo, as others have done, preferably a 20C to 25C rated battery, as the oem battery would be about a 10 - 15C Li-Ion, (don't believe on the battery when it states it's a LiPo, it isn't). Then get a proper programmable balancer / charger like a Turnigy Accucell 6, Imax 6 or Thunder Power AC6, and a banana plug to jst adapter cable, as I have always thought the oem charger doesn't charge the cells properly or enough to keep them in prime condition.

If you still find it's a bit slow and lacking power (don't expect too much from it) try replacing the motor.

Oh, I nearly forgot. It takes a few charge / discharge cycles for the battery to come up to full capacity, so for the first couple of flights it may seem a bit slow, but as the charging cycles increase, so will the performance capabilities of the battery. All batteries need to be formed and treated properly, otherwise they may die an early death. Make sure when you fly it, if you find the heli starts to become difficult to keep airborne and you find you have to add more and more throttle to keep it up, bring it down and re-charge it, but let the battery rest for 5 - 10 mins before putting it on the charger, to cool down internally.

The cut off point for a properly formed battery is about 17min for my 900mAh LiPo, which brings the voltage to about 3.2vdc from a fully charged 4.2vdc. Anywhere between 3.5vdc to 3.2vdc you should start to think about bring it down.

My suggestion is to grab a small digital watch and tape it to the front of the transmitter, when you go to take off, take note of the time, then occasionally glance at the time during your flight session and bring the heli down at the 17min mark, regardless of whether you think the heli has more flying time in it. Dropping the voltage past the limit will damage the battery and shorten it's service life.

As to the heli not hovering in the same position, you will need to adjust the elevator link to compensate for that forwards drift. The elevator servo link is on the left side looking from the back. Flick off the plastic hoop, that is on the ball on the swashplate and turn it counter clockwise / left to lengthen, clockwise / right to shorten. Since it has a bias to the front, the link needs to be lengthened. Think of the swashplate as a seesaw in a playground and the main shaft as the fulcrum point, to get a seesaw to balance the plank must be adjusted equally on both sides, and the planks must be balanced in weight and length, so to get the heli to hover level without much drifting, the swashplate must be balanced and leveled, but you must also compensate for torque from the main motor and the tail, plus the overall balance of the heli itself. To balance the heli, tie some string or sewing thread to the top of the main shaft above the blades and suspend the heli by the string. If the heli is bias one way or another, you must adjust the heli weight so it hangs level. This may require you to shift the position of the battery back towards the main shaft, or add weight to the top of the battery or inside the nose of the canopy, like adding some coins or like I use self-adhesive sports / mag wheel tyre balance weights, like 5g or 10g and add more or less to fine tune. Once the heli is balanced, you will need to adjust the servo links. The links can be adjusted so to keep the swashplate level or at the correct position so the heli will hover level. The point of getting the heli to hover hands free without much stick input is to find the swashplate's "sweet spot". This position will give you the maximum amount of control in both directions for a particular servo.

It's all about balance with heli's, if the balance is off, so will the heli. Someone once called hovering a heli like trying to balance a basketball on a golf ball, of course that is for more advanced collective pitch helicopters, but the same theory still applies to the 9116, the flybar dampens the response, so it's not as crucial, but you still have to work at it to get it to hover properly.
Thx Stormforce

I am 1st trying to understand what you suggested. It's taking a bit of time to digest as I am new to this field. But I will learn eventually one way or the other.

Thx and I will update once got some results.

Bimal
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 10:53 PM
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I put people into two categories, those that are born to lead and those that are born to follow, but we all have the desire to serve and support our fellow man, to a greater or lesser degree.

I know it sounds corny, but I worked out early in my life that I was born to follow, but have learned how to lead, when the occasion arises and my desire to serve and support my fellow man is my strongest instinct.
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Last edited by stormforce; Jul 19, 2012 at 11:40 PM.
Old Jul 19, 2012, 10:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Beginer56 View Post
Thx Stormforce

I am 1st trying to understand what you suggested. It's taking a bit of time to digest as I am new to this field. But I will learn eventually one way or the other.

Thx and I will update once got some results.

Bimal
You'll get it eventually, just take it slow and steady, there's no rush...
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Old Jul 19, 2012, 10:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ljryeaiii View Post
Earlier today I strapped a bullet cam to my 9116 again. Well I got the copter really high...I would say just over a thousand feet. The helicopter was a speck in the sky...long story short I came down to about 50 feet and all of sudden all hell broke loose and it went crashing to the ground...???

Here is the video, but I still have no idea what happened. The camera took the blunt of the trauma and was scattered across the ground.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ZEio...ature=youtu.be

Thoughts?
My theory is you got too close to those power lines, that disrupted the signal between the tx and rx, and since it has a "loss of signal" cutoff, it did exactly that, it shut down and fell.

I have normal suburban type power lines running in front of my house, near where I fly, and all of my 2.4ghz heli's shut down, if I fly too close to the lines. Considering those power lines have a higher voltage, the EMF (electro-magnetic interference) or RFI (radio frequency interference) from them would have a greater range that standard power lines. On the power wire there are some glass or ceramic discs and then in turn it is attached to the poles or crossbraces. Those glass or ceramic discs will give you an indication of the voltage that the wires are carrying. Each disc is rated to 11,000 volts, so you multiply 11,000 volts by the number of disc's to determine the voltage of the line, therefore, the greater the number of disc's, the higher the voltage and the greater the EMF or RFI that will be emitted from those lines.

To prove my point, grab a common fluorescent lighting tube and walk beneath one of those power lines at night and watch it glow as you get closer to them. It's truely scary the amount of power they loose from radiation.

Light tubes lite up under powerlines without plugs? EMF Cra (2 min 6 sec)
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Last edited by stormforce; Jul 19, 2012 at 11:20 PM.
Old Jul 20, 2012, 03:37 AM
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Joined Jul 2012
2 Posts
LiPo 1500 mAH for DH9116 ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by stormforce View Post
The Q/S switch is a so called "Dual Rate" switch. In quick, you get full control of the servo's, how ever in slow, you get about half of that control. There may also be some mixing in the programming as well, but I doubt it. Generally, slow is for indoor or raw beginner flying and hovering, and quick is for outdoor and intermediate to advanced skill level of flying.

As for the throttle, that sounds about right. Throttle response is dependent on 2 things, the condition of the main motor and the condition of the battery. I know this is a new heli, but it's not uncommon for either the motor or the battery to be a dud out of the box. I would try replacing and upgrading the battery first to the recommended 900mAh LiPo, as others have done, preferably a 20C to 25C rated battery, as the oem battery would be about a 10 - 15C Li-Ion, (don't believe on the battery when it states it's a LiPo, it isn't). Then get a proper programmable balancer / charger like a Turnigy Accucell 6, Imax 6 or Thunder Power AC6, and a banana plug to jst adapter cable, as I have always thought the oem charger doesn't charge the cells properly or enough to keep them in prime condition.

If you still find it's a bit slow and lacking power (don't expect too much from it) try replacing the motor.

Oh, I nearly forgot. It takes a few charge / discharge cycles for the battery to come up to full capacity, so for the first couple of flights it may seem a bit slow, but as the charging cycles increase, so will the performance capabilities of the battery. All batteries need to be formed and treated properly, otherwise they may die an early death. Make sure when you fly it, if you find the heli starts to become difficult to keep airborne and you find you have to add more and more throttle to keep it up, bring it down and re-charge it, but let the battery rest for 5 - 10 mins before putting it on the charger, to cool down internally.

The cut off point for a properly formed battery is about 17min for my 900mAh LiPo, which brings the voltage to about 3.2vdc from a fully charged 4.2vdc. Anywhere between 3.5vdc to 3.2vdc you should start to think about bring it down.

My suggestion is to grab a small digital watch and tape it to the front of the transmitter, when you go to take off, take note of the time, then occasionally glance at the time during your flight session and bring the heli down at the 17min mark, regardless of whether you think the heli has more flying time in it. Dropping the voltage past the limit will damage the battery and shorten it's service life.

As to the heli not hovering in the same position, you will need to adjust the elevator link to compensate for that forwards drift. The elevator servo link is on the left side looking from the back. Flick off the plastic hoop, that is on the ball on the swashplate and turn it counter clockwise / left to lengthen, clockwise / right to shorten. Since it has a bias to the front, the link needs to be lengthened. Think of the swashplate as a seesaw in a playground and the main shaft as the fulcrum point, to get a seesaw to balance the plank must be adjusted equally on both sides, and the planks must be balanced in weight and length, so to get the heli to hover level without much drifting, the swashplate must be balanced and leveled, but you must also compensate for torque from the main motor and the tail, plus the overall balance of the heli itself. To balance the heli, tie some string or sewing thread to the top of the main shaft above the blades and suspend the heli by the string. If the heli is bias one way or another, you must adjust the heli weight so it hangs level. This may require you to shift the position of the battery back towards the main shaft, or add weight to the top of the battery or inside the nose of the canopy, like adding some coins or like I use self-adhesive sports / mag wheel tyre balance weights, like 5g or 10g and add more or less to fine tune. Once the heli is balanced, you will need to adjust the servo links. The links can be adjusted so to keep the swashplate level or at the correct position so the heli will hover level. The point of getting the heli to hover hands free without much stick input is to find the swashplate's "sweet spot". This position will give you the maximum amount of control in both directions for a particular servo.

It's all about balance with heli's, if the balance is off, so will the heli. Someone once called hovering a heli like trying to balance a basketball on a golf ball, of course that is for more advanced collective pitch helicopters, but the same theory still applies to the 9116, the flybar dampens the response, so it's not as crucial, but you still have to work at it to get it to hover properly.
Small question from Holland: does the 1500 mAH LiPo battery for the DH9104 also work on the DH9116? And can I charge it with the charger of the DH9116?
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