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Old Jun 05, 2012, 04:39 AM
DELTAS RULE
corsair nut's Avatar
tehachapi, CA
Joined Jan 2006
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Old Jun 05, 2012, 09:56 AM
Fly allot, Crash allot, next?
United States, CA, Corona
Joined Feb 2006
7,246 Posts
Final post no pissing contest: Ha ha

1. Without a long response, we simply have to look back to what has been a proved fix, the easiest. Quite simply, install the factory elevator correctly. Now tell me this isn't right CN. You know it's right and I know it's right.

All the suggestions that followed are unproven on this model and could come with their own set of problems. (could come)

To those that want a non-factory fix: There have been many suggestions made over the past several pages, make your choice and follow the RC expert of your choice. If you loose your plane, your fault, refer to 1. above.

I am willing to learn, but acting like a sheep helps nobody. If you want to support a suggested fix, then do it your self and test it. So far only Tam is willing to do that.

Flutter? The oversize holes in the horns could be a much bigger problem, use your heads and think about it, every moving surface wiil flutter. This will not happen with the elevator horn that came in my kit as it is different, but the ailerons and flaps? Yes.
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Old Jun 05, 2012, 11:29 AM
3DHOG
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USA, CA, Aromas
Joined Sep 2010
4,850 Posts
good post Al
but also consider CN is running a low power setup. so with properly install stab and setup it should be ok. the problem of flutter happens when your aircrafts airspeed meets the structures "critical air speed" point. by making these mods we are effectively moving the critical airspeed point higher and hopefully out of the range where we wish to fly. the single best mod for doing this is the solid trailing spar in the stab that Tam did and the next best thing is elev redesign. these two things will push the critical air speed point higher and out of our airspeed envelope. and yes the control horn slop is terrible and most experienced builders would spot that right away and make necessary repairs
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Old Jun 05, 2012, 11:55 AM
Fly allot, Crash allot, next?
United States, CA, Corona
Joined Feb 2006
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No one was reported, it was just decided by the participants that certain unrelated information should be deleted.
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Old Jun 05, 2012, 12:33 PM
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New Jersey
Joined Feb 2003
8,127 Posts
That is true I think when you are talking about a big aileron or flap, but the elevator is small. However, look at the Habu....the flap and the aileron horn are right at the ends. As I posted earlier, the BVM Bandit's elvator and rudder horns are right at the ends of the surface and that plane has been proven to fly well over 200 for over 20 years.

Below: Habu aileron and flap horn close to edge as well as elevator

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCALEFAN View Post
Kevin,

My point is, that with split elevators, and horns on one end, the twisting could happen in the hinge area, unequal torque. Especially true with CA hinges.

That is all that I meant when I said new problems. I made this happen on other planes, the split elevator will move more closer to the horn when pressure is applied....pressure being the increased airspeed. The other end is weaker, no horn. The pull and push is at the horn.

Think about it, picture holding the outboard end of the elevator with your finger, while working the servo The inboasrd edge with the horn will move, the outboard edge will stay put because of your finger. The wind pressure can act as your finger when the plane is flying at high speed. The horn needs to be closer to center on each elevator half.

Al
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Old Jun 05, 2012, 12:44 PM
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New Jersey
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Horn can't get much closer to the end than on the Electra....
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Old Jun 05, 2012, 01:48 PM
Fly allot, Crash allot, next?
United States, CA, Corona
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Tumbler,

OK, your posts satisfied that concern. Can't argue with success or BVM, thanks for the info..

But you do agree that to achieve the BVM level of success you do need better hinges than the CA type.
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Old Jun 05, 2012, 02:14 PM
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New Jersey
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I don't think there is anything wrng with CA hinges IF they are properly installed and if you pin them they are foolproof. But off all the hinges out there, they would be my last choice personally. That being said, I think pin type hinges are the best while also being the hinge for dummies. The little ridges on them pretty much guarantee a solid hinge.

Below is all I use now. They are the hinges BVM uses in the BVM electra kit(not the ARF). Made by Hayes and available at Tower. They provide a gapless hinge which is always nice to have on a fast jet.



Quote:
Originally Posted by SCALEFAN View Post
Tumbler,

OK, your posts satisfied that concern. Can't argue with success or BVM, thanks for the info..

But you do agree that to achieve the BVM level of success you do need better hinges than the CA type.
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Old Jun 05, 2012, 02:29 PM
Fly allot, Crash allot, next?
United States, CA, Corona
Joined Feb 2006
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Oh yes, I like those hinges, sort of a compromise between pin type and CA.
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Old Jun 05, 2012, 03:46 PM
Lee Liddle
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Carrollton, Tx
Joined Dec 2006
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I've never seen those. I'm going to try some.
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Old Jun 05, 2012, 03:59 PM
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alanjets's Avatar
Ripoff britain
Joined Jan 2011
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They are great hinges but if there is nothing in the wing for them to fasten too dosnt matter what hinges u use.U stand a better chance using the pines ones with aeropoxy but I thing eventually even that would fail with no wood there
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Old Jun 05, 2012, 04:09 PM
Matrix 90 & 100mm sport jet
Getmore Rc's Avatar
Merritt Island Fl
Joined Aug 2008
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I have used them as well make sure they are all inline and straight when glueing them in or they don't work well. You can CA them also.
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Old Jun 05, 2012, 09:17 PM
5kW Club
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United States, AZ, Tucson
Joined Feb 2007
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Modifications in progress of the Sniper Horizontal

Before I start please remember that I am neutral, I was ask to modify a stab using possible different concepts posted in the thread.

I have two stabs to modify for flight testing, and was asked by Robert at EJF to try and keep the Sniper look.

After looking at the suggestions on the thread, I chose the way Lee Liddle had suggest because that is the way I would have done it.

You must remember there are only some may ways things are done and if you have been modeling a number of years, the way people do things will look a lot like.

The way I have chosen to modify the stab resembles what Tam is doing. If someone wants to say I copied Tam, OK. But remember some people think alike.

If someone wants more info let me know. Please remember this has not been flight tested but I do no see why it will not work.
Clay
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Old Jun 05, 2012, 09:25 PM
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New Jersey
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I roughed them up with 80 grit sand paper and then glued one side in at a time with Hysol. They are nice because you don't have to add any grease or oil to the pivot like other hinges. BVM does suggest slow Zap for one side but I used Hysol on both and did them in 2 nights.


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Originally Posted by Getmore Rc View Post
I have used them as well make sure they are all inline and straight when glueing them in or they don't work well. You can CA them also.
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Old Jun 05, 2012, 09:42 PM
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San Jose, CA
Joined Jun 2006
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Quote:
Originally Posted by racer1 View Post
Before I start please remember that I am neutral, I was ask to modify a stab using possible different concepts posted in the thread.

I have two stabs to modify for flight testing, and was asked by Robert at EJF to try and keep the Sniper look.

After looking at the suggestions on the thread, I chose the way Lee Liddle had suggest because that is the way I would have done it.

You must remember there are only some may ways things are done and if you have been modeling a number of years, the way people do things will look a lot like.

The way I have chosen to modify the stab resembles what Tam is doing. If someone wants to say I copied Tam, OK. But remember some people think alike.

If someone wants more info let me know. Please remember this has not been flight tested but I do no see why it will not work.
Clay
Clay....you copy...no more green bottles for you.
That is most simple way to fix the problem and can use the orginal part.
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