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Old Aug 28, 2012, 10:14 PM
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kryptoknight's Avatar
Canada, MB, Winnipeg
Joined Aug 2011
257 Posts
I have a battery problem here guys. I have GEN ACE 4000 mAh 25C 3S lipo fully charged. It only lasted me 5 mins of hover time untill it began flashing it's red light lowbatt indication. I tried the other same 4000mAh 25C fully charged and it surprised me that it only lasted 2 mins of hover time. I swapped my 35C 3700mAh 3S KYPOM K6 pack and it lasted 10 mins of hover time. My quadcopter weighs approx 1200grams with gopro. Are my GEN ACE 25C not compatible with the NAZA or it's just that my GEN ACE are already dead even if I balanced charge it? It used to work fine on my OPENPILOT set up.
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 10:20 PM
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BerndM's Avatar
Near Disneyland in Placentia, Southern California, USA
Joined Aug 2004
500 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by u2builder View Post
I decided I had better do a range check so I brought it back to the narrow place I launch from. I fired it up and all lights said GO. I don't know how to do a range check, so I decided to just turn the props on at idle and walk backward. Big mistake. I think I do have a range problem, because at about the same distance as before it spooled up and took off, again, out of control.

Once the sweating stops I guess I need to swap out the RX. But how the heck do you do a RANGE CHECK??? No ailerons or elevator or rudder to move.
The safest way to range check is with the PROPS REMOVED!!!!

On a Spektrum type radio you have to press and hold the Bind button and walk away 30 paces, about 75-90 feet. You have to have full control authority at that distance with the button held in. If you don't have a buddy to help you, you should still be able to hear the motors change pitch with throttle up/down. If all is good at that 75-90 foot range, you're golden at full range.

Regards
Bernd

Remember.....PROPS OFF.

Witespy-DJI NAZA F450 Flamewheel
2212/920kv DJI motors and Opto 30A ESC's
10x5 Graupner Props /3S 2200 & 4000 Lipos / GoPro HD2
Spektrum DX-7 (original)
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 10:34 PM
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United States, NV, Nye
Joined Jun 2012
167 Posts
Well I broke down and bought another naza this will be my third one. But my first with GPS. Just hope they get the code setup for PPM SUM soon. And hope it don't do what my second one did when it went rouge and MIA. And the failsafe was setup properly and working not 4 flights before she ran away it was tested and landed when the radio was cut off.
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 10:41 PM
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T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
4,996 Posts
72 mHz

Quote:
Originally Posted by u2builder View Post
Oh yeah, this explains it. Naza and Futaba 9C/PCM do not work together properly. I had exactly the same thing happen: OK range check with all my RX connected to servos, but really poor range check when connected to the machine, and very erratic behavior when I go out of range.

May have to FrySky module.
2.4 Ghz is here to stay.
72 mHz is dead.
Why won't you guys just let it go?
I know it was great in its day, and that 2.4 has its problems.
But face facts...
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 10:55 PM
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u2builder's Avatar
USA, NH, Alstead
Joined Oct 2007
4,977 Posts
LOL. When you got 25 planes on 72 it is kind of expensive to switch. But I just ordered a 2.4 FRYSKY module for my Futaba 9c for when I fly the Quad. No other choice really.
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 11:10 PM
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T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
4,996 Posts
72 mHz Interference

Quote:
Originally Posted by u2builder View Post
LOL. When you got 25 planes on 72 it is kind of expensive to switch. But I just ordered a 2.4 FRYSKY module for my Futaba 9c for when I fly the Quad. No other choice really.
Yeah, I understand, but with 72 mHz on the decline, systems might not even be designed with it in mind anymore.
I know DJI says Naza is 72 mHz friendly, but it appears to be otherwise.
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 11:33 PM
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pajonate's Avatar
United States, NJ, Fair Lawn
Joined Dec 2009
819 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by u2builder View Post
LOL. When you got 25 planes on 72 it is kind of expensive to switch. But I just ordered a 2.4 FRYSKY module for my Futaba 9c for when I fly the Quad. No other choice really.
Which module have you ordered, the one with the LCD telemetry or the regular one. What about the Rx. Which ones you got? And from where?
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 11:35 PM
Seattle, WA - USA
mark_q's Avatar
Joined Sep 2003
3,437 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by kryptoknight View Post
I have a battery problem here guys. I have GEN ACE 4000 mAh 25C 3S lipo fully charged. It only lasted me 5 mins of hover time untill it began flashing it's red light lowbatt indication. I tried the other same 4000mAh 25C fully charged and it surprised me that it only lasted 2 mins of hover time. I swapped my 35C 3700mAh 3S KYPOM K6 pack and it lasted 10 mins of hover time. My quadcopter weighs approx 1200grams with gopro. Are my GEN ACE 25C not compatible with the NAZA or it's just that my GEN ACE are already dead even if I balanced charge it? It used to work fine on my OPENPILOT set up.
Your batteries are likely done.
When Lipos get tired their capacity drops pretty quickly. I've got a pile of 2200 30C GA packs that last about 5 minutues on my Sniper (3D foamy). A new 30C SkyLipo goes a solid 9 minutes. The GA packs have somewhere between 150 and 200 cycles on them which for me is a pretty normal life. I balance charge 100% of the time and never above 1C. When they get this bad, I wire 4 or 5 five of them together in parallel and power my FPV base station.
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 11:36 PM
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pajonate's Avatar
United States, NJ, Fair Lawn
Joined Dec 2009
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TJ, is the FrSky SPCM or PPM, do you have an idea? I am asking if the FrSky's can be set up for failsafe. I have JR 9303 with Assan module and Spektrum module.
With Assan module when I select a model, works only if I set modulation to PPM (no failsafe).
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 11:40 PM
Seattle, WA - USA
mark_q's Avatar
Joined Sep 2003
3,437 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by T J Gilbert View Post
2.4 Ghz is here to stay.
72 mHz is dead.
Why won't you guys just let it go?
I know it was great in its day, and that 2.4 has its problems.
But face facts...
+1!
The last time I pulled out the old 72, I neglected to pull out the antenna (didn'nt like that plane much anyway...)
I bought into 2.4 when they first came out and have never had a (radio) problem.
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 11:49 PM
Seattle, WA - USA
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Joined Sep 2003
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pajonate View Post
TJ, is the FrSky SPCM or PPM, do you have an idea? I am asking if the FrSky's can be set up for failsafe. I have JR 9303 with Assan module and Spektrum module.
With Assan module when I select a model, works only if I set modulation to PPM (no failsafe).




There's been quite a lot about failsafe recently and I wonder if everyone has a real understanding of this important topic. Here are a few points to consider:
  • Every radio system deals with TX/RX failsafe differently
  • Most radio systems under 8 channels that have a failsafe feature do so on throttle only
  • Most radio systems which have a true multi-channel failsafe program, require separate menu selection or special bind requirement to make them work
I don't know all the differences, but I can tell you there are many so do your research!

I can speak to Spektrum a bit since it is what I use and I hear it mentioned a lot on this thread. Spektrum (& JR) have two different failsafe programs, "Smartsafe" and "Preset Failsafe".
Smartsafe is throttle only and basically remembers only the throttle position at bind so if signal is lost, the throttle goes to its bind position and all other controls do not change. Smartsafe is available on all AR receivers and is the default.

Preset Failsafe is where you can preset all control surfaces and swithces when the signal is lost. Preset Failsafe is available on AR7001 and higher receivers and is activated with a second special bind procedure (from the AR9001 instructions):

"During the binding process the bind plug is inserted in the bind port, then the receiver is powered up. The LEDs in each receiver should blink, indicating that the receiver is in bind mode. Now before binding the receiver to the transmitter and with the receiver in bind mode, remove the bind plug. The
LEDs will still be blinking. With the control sticks and switches in the desired failsafe positions, bind the transmitter to the receiver. Follow the procedures of your specifc transmitter to enter Bind Mode. The system should connect in less than 15 seconds. The receiver is now programmed for preset failsafe."

Keep in mind we are working with spinning samurai swords so be careful. It would be prudent to do your testing with empty servos plugged in to your receiver first then test on the multirotor.

Always keep it fun!
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Old Aug 28, 2012, 11:59 PM
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Cervanchez's Avatar
United States, WA, Redmond
Joined Dec 2011
698 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pajonate View Post
TJ, is the FrSky SPCM or PPM, do you have an idea? I am asking if the FrSky's can be set up for failsafe. I have JR 9303 with Assan module and Spektrum module.
With Assan module when I select a model, works only if I set modulation to PPM (no failsafe).
I have a Frsky D8R Rx and it is ppm. The failsafe works with the Naza. I love my Frsky stuff. I have the DHT-U transceiver with telemetry (voltage, rssi, temp, rpm) with alarms, and all their stuff is super cheap.
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Old Aug 29, 2012, 01:11 AM
Registered User
United States, NV, Nye
Joined Jun 2012
167 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by mark_q View Post
There's been quite a lot about failsafe recently and I wonder if everyone has a real understanding of this important topic. Here are a few points to consider:
  • Every radio system deals with TX/RX failsafe differently
  • Most radio systems under 8 channels that have a failsafe feature do so on throttle only
  • Most radio systems which have a true multi-channel failsafe program, require separate menu selection or special bind requirement to make them work
I don't know all the differences, but I can tell you there are many so do your research!

I can speak to Spektrum a bit since it is what I use and I hear it mentioned a lot on this thread. Spektrum (& JR) have two different failsafe programs, "Smartsafe" and "Preset Failsafe".
Smartsafe is throttle only and basically remembers only the throttle position at bind so if signal is lost, the throttle goes to its bind position and all other controls do not change. Smartsafe is available on all AR receivers and is the default.

Preset Failsafe is where you can preset all control surfaces and swithces when the signal is lost. Preset Failsafe is available on AR7001 and higher receivers and is activated with a second special bind procedure (from the AR9001 instructions):

"During the binding process the bind plug is inserted in the bind port, then the receiver is powered up. The LEDs in each receiver should blink, indicating that the receiver is in bind mode. Now before binding the receiver to the transmitter and with the receiver in bind mode, remove the bind plug. The
LEDs will still be blinking. With the control sticks and switches in the desired failsafe positions, bind the transmitter to the receiver. Follow the procedures of your specifc transmitter to enter Bind Mode. The system should connect in less than 15 seconds. The receiver is now programmed for preset failsafe."

Keep in mind we are working with spinning samurai swords so be careful. It would be prudent to do your testing with empty servos plugged in to your receiver first then test on the multirotor.

Always keep it fun!
Man now I know why I love my Graupner MX-20 Failsafe is Failsafe. It is all done via the setup menue on the ground radio. Just a matter of setting the switches for each channel you want to react it is that easy 12345 or more either you want the switch open or closed its your choice don't have to fool with anything like the binding nothing its that simple.Man a good radio is the first thing in making a good investment if your really into the hobby.
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Old Aug 29, 2012, 01:14 AM
Registered User
United States, NV, Nye
Joined Jun 2012
167 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cervanchez View Post
I have a Frsky D8R Rx and it is ppm. The failsafe works with the Naza. I love my Frsky stuff. I have the DHT-U transceiver with telemetry (voltage, rssi, temp, rpm) with alarms, and all their stuff is super cheap.
You folks are really confussing me now. How are you running PPM when the code for the NAZA board to do PPM is not yet implimented. Help me figure this out huuu.
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Old Aug 29, 2012, 01:41 AM
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pajonate's Avatar
United States, NJ, Fair Lawn
Joined Dec 2009
819 Posts
Mark_q,
mine question was posted because I have Jr 9303 (72Mhz) with module for Spektrum and Assan. In the JR manual, under faisafe, there is requirement to set your radio to SPCM modulation. On the other hand, Assan manual, states that all their Rxs are PPM. So, if I set my radio to SPCM modulation, I get a menu Failsafe where I can set it up, but them the radio doesn't bind with the receiver.
I haven't tried the Spektrum module, since at this point I have only 4 channel Spektrum Rxs.

@Carvanchez,
what radio you have with your FrSky. I looked at the DHT-U unit, and it seems interesting, since it is a Tx module and telemetry in-one.
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