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Old Aug 04, 2012, 04:41 PM
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pajonate's Avatar
United States, NJ, Fair Lawn
Joined Dec 2009
818 Posts
@Kevin,
what was the voltage of your battery after this flight.
I am getting just over 5 mins with my quad on 2200mAh, 3S batt.

I think with 8 minutes you drained you battery too low, and your battery settings on the Naza were set even than that, because it dropped like that, not lend.
The battery was too low, but, Naza landing setting was even lower.

I don't think any of the ESCs were in fault, except that they had no juice to run on, lol
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 05:34 PM
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olivier30900's Avatar
Nīmes - France
Joined Nov 2010
34 Posts
Hi

A funny flight with Naza and F330 :

DJI F330 // FPV // Fun, Fly, Trees and Co ... (3 min 24 sec)
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 05:42 PM
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Cervanchez's Avatar
United States, WA, Redmond
Joined Dec 2011
696 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by delta245 View Post
That village is the coolest place ever. Where is it?
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 09:36 PM
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T J Gilbert's Avatar
United States, MS, Ridgeland
Joined Feb 2009
4,210 Posts
Starting gains

Quote:
Originally Posted by pajonate View Post
TJ, as much as I was happy to listen to your and the manual advice, my issue with dropping Naza during forward pitch is still there. I have even put the vertical gain on a lever on my Tx, with setting to go from 100 to 200, and no matter what is the position of the lever, my Naza drops after 20-30 yard of forward pitch. If I go slow, I don't see the issue, but if I try a bit faster it drops almost to the ground.

I am thinking of putting a smaller props (8x4.5) to try is that an issue, but I don't raise my hopes too much on that.

Another thing I'll try is to change the gains and check the differences. At this point I was almost 100 for all gains, in basic and in atti mode.

One thing to clear, if I fly in atti mode, does the basic settings have any relevance, or just the atti pitch/roll gains have effect.
I asking that for clarification, cause for OpenPilot FC, the rate(basic) settings also affect the stabilized (atti) flying.

My Naza was NIB, not used, so I can't blame it as being mis-used. It is probably me, lol.

And regarding the location "ought to be required", in my opinion, it should not be. If someone wants to share, it is completely upon them. If they want, they will, they shouldn't be made to do it . Just my opinion on the matter.

Take care
Pajo
Now I'm still playing with gains myself, so I'm no authority...
Way back in the early parts of this thread TahoeEd suggested:
140/140/140/140
100/100
As a good starting setting.
Have you tried gains this high?
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Old Aug 04, 2012, 10:46 PM
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pajonate's Avatar
United States, NJ, Fair Lawn
Joined Dec 2009
818 Posts
TJ,
my atti mode are same as yours 100 for pitch and roll.
My basic gains are quote different than those. Mine are 100 for pitch, roll, yaw, and 120 for vertical. I have tried all settings for the vertical form 100 to 200 but it didn't help.
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 12:55 AM
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Glenstr's Avatar
Canada, AB, Lac La Biche
Joined Aug 2010
1,946 Posts
I'm debating changing my motors on my flamewheel/naza, right now I have my 4 Scorpion motors and 10 amp ESC's from my gaui on it. It flies nice and with just the bare frame I get about 10 minutes gentle flying from a 2500 mah battery, and about 5 minutes with the X468 mount and a camera on it. I felt the motors after a 5 min flight yesterday and they were quite hot. I put a watt meter on my flamewheel and under WOT it was drawing 27 amps so I thought it would be good with the 4 10 amp ESC's, but I'm concerned about how hot the motors are getting.

I see the DJI site recommends 30amp ESC's for the 450 with their motors. I was looking at 4 of the DJI motors with the 30a ESC's and I may as well buy the kit and get a spare frame for about the same price.

I guess another option would be 4 of the hacker motors I have on my witespy with 18a plush ESC's, that combo seems to handle the weight of the VC450 frame with a GoPro quite nicely.

Any other suggestions?
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 08:15 AM
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GoldCraft's Avatar
United States, GA, Woodstock
Joined Jan 2007
6,605 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by olivier30900 View Post
Hi

A funny flight with Naza and F330 :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-LV0nr26S0&hd=1

HA!.....nice roll landing
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 10:31 AM
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KevinBuckley70's Avatar
Oxfordshire, UK
Joined Jul 2001
279 Posts
More Gaui 330xs/NAZA ESC settings information

Quote:
Originally Posted by pajonate View Post
@Kevin,
what was the voltage of your battery after this flight.
I am getting just over 5 mins with my quad on 2200mAh, 3S batt.

I think with 8 minutes you drained you battery too low, and your battery settings on the Naza were set even than that, because it dropped like that, not lend.
The battery was too low, but, Naza landing setting was even lower.

I don't think any of the ESCs were in fault, except that they had no juice to run on, lol
I think you may have a point. I did another flight test today.

Firstly, I fully programmed all the ESC's as follows:
  • Brake: Off
  • Battery: NiMH (to get a lower cut-off voltage on the ESC - I want the NAZA to manage low voltage, not the ESC)
  • Cut off: Soft
  • Cut off threshold: Low
  • Start Mode: Normal
  • Timing: High
and also I reset the throttle end-points for each ESC (all-in-all a really tedious process which is impossible to do unless you disconnect (from the battery) all the ESC's except the one you are programming).

I then took the quad outside & let it hover in Atti/GPS mode until it stopped flying (apart from a few early, boisterous laps of the garden). What happened was this (I have it on video but it's really boring so I won't post it!):
  • At 10.8 volts the V-SEN LED started to flash red (which is to be expected - the 1st voltage monitor setting is 10.8v)
  • The quad continued to hover for almost a total flight duration of 12min 4sec (with a 3s, 2200mAh LiPo)
  • When the battery voltage reached 10.4 volts, the 2nd NAZA voltage monitor threshold, nothing noticeable happened (I have the voltage connected to the Spektrum telemetry module)
  • About 20 seconds before the end of the flight, I had to start pushing the throttle rapidly higher to keep hovering
  • At the end of the flight, the quad suddenly descended very rapidly but still maintaining attitude
The battery voltage at the end of the flight, after just over 12 minutes, was 8.8 volts (way too low!).

So the question is, why didn't the NAZA force the quad to land at the 10.4 volts threshold, as it successfully does on my F450 with the same settings?

Any suggestions are welcome!
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 10:39 AM
Suspended Account
United States, AZ, Tucson
Joined Mar 2012
3,265 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinBuckley70 View Post
I think you may have a point. I did another flight test today.

Firstly, I fully programmed all the ESC's as follows:
  • Brake: Off
  • Battery: NiMH (to get a lower cut-off voltage on the ESC - I want the NAZA to manage low voltage, not the ESC)
  • Cut off: Soft
  • Cut off threshold: Low
  • Start Mode: Normal
  • Timing: High
and also I reset the throttle end-points for each ESC (all-in-all a really tedious process which is impossible to do unless you disconnect (from the battery) all the ESC's except the one you are programming).

I then took the quad outside & let it hover in Atti/GPS mode until it stopped flying (apart from a few early, boisterous laps of the garden). What happened was this (I have it on video but it's really boring so I won't post it!):
  • At 10.8 volts the V-SEN LED started to flash red (which is to be expected - the 1st voltage monitor setting is 10.8v)
  • The quad continued to hover for almost a total flight duration of 12min 4sec (with a 3s, 2200mAh LiPo)
  • When the battery voltage reached 10.4 volts, the 2nd NAZA voltage monitor threshold, nothing noticeable happened (I have the voltage connected to the Spektrum telemetry module)
  • About 20 seconds before the end of the flight, I had to start pushing the throttle rapidly higher to keep hovering
  • At the end of the flight, the quad suddenly descended very rapidly but still maintaining attitude
The battery voltage at the end of the flight, after just over 12 minutes, was 8.8 volts (way too low!).

So the question is, why didn't the NAZA force the quad to land at the 10.4 volts threshold, as it successfully does on my F450 with the same settings?

Any suggestions are welcome!
Thats a good question! I wonder the same thing
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 11:39 AM
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BerndM's Avatar
Near Disneyland in Placentia, Southern California, USA
Joined Aug 2004
500 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by delta245 View Post
Hey Delta
That was one of my all time favorite videos to watch. Wonderful. Thanks!
I really liked the music you chose and the chirping birds were GREAT!!
I think you mentioned you were using the GoPro HD camera. Are you using any post production stabilization on the video or are you fly very early in the morning before the wind starts?

Regards
Bernd

BTW...what village is this? I'd like to check out the area on Google Earth.
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 02:22 PM
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pajonate's Avatar
United States, NJ, Fair Lawn
Joined Dec 2009
818 Posts
Question:
What is the lowest voltage you put for your batteries?

Myself I don't want to go below 11V on 3s. For my BlueSkyRc frame with OP and 8x4.5 Gemfans I get 5 mins and some on 2200mAh, or 4mins and some for 1800mAh. On the Naza I am using heavier batteries (3300, 4000 mAh, because it is 3 ounces heavier).

I see Kevin as extreme, with 12 mins and 8.8V on 2200mAH. I personally would be scared that the battery may catch fire, lol. Mine batteries are quite hot when they get to 11V, I don't even know what can happen if they reach 8.8V.

As Kevin has a problem with Naza not landing on his settings, I have the oposite, mine is lending little bit higher that my settings on the Assistant. I have it to start blinking on 11.2 and land on 10.7. Mine lends on 11.2V. I did battery calibration so it's not that.

Anyhow, What is the lowest voltage you put for your batteries?
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 02:27 PM
Registered User
Italia, Piemonte, Biella
Joined Feb 2011
394 Posts
changed motors and props and went to 1200kv motors with 9" props and it seems smoother now in motion. There was no wind today so i don't know if wind wobbles have been cured too.
Heres a quick raw vid of various test movements. I think i can still lower atti gain 10 more for better slow movements.

naza - H quad - 9" APC & Emax GT (5 min 1 sec)
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 02:28 PM
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mewert's Avatar
College Place, WA.
Joined Apr 2004
923 Posts
I use default settings.
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 02:34 PM
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KevinBuckley70's Avatar
Oxfordshire, UK
Joined Jul 2001
279 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinBuckley70 View Post
I think you may have a point. I did another flight test today.

Firstly, I fully programmed all the ESC's as follows:
  • Brake: Off
  • Battery: NiMH (to get a lower cut-off voltage on the ESC - I want the NAZA to manage low voltage, not the ESC)
  • Cut off: Soft
  • Cut off threshold: Low
  • Start Mode: Normal
  • Timing: High
and also I reset the throttle end-points for each ESC (all-in-all a really tedious process which is impossible to do unless you disconnect (from the battery) all the ESC's except the one you are programming).

I then took the quad outside & let it hover in Atti/GPS mode until it stopped flying (apart from a few early, boisterous laps of the garden). What happened was this (I have it on video but it's really boring so I won't post it!):
  • At 10.8 volts the V-SEN LED started to flash red (which is to be expected - the 1st voltage monitor setting is 10.8v)
  • The quad continued to hover for almost a total flight duration of 12min 4sec (with a 3s, 2200mAh LiPo)
  • When the battery voltage reached 10.4 volts, the 2nd NAZA voltage monitor threshold, nothing noticeable happened (I have the voltage connected to the Spektrum telemetry module)
  • About 20 seconds before the end of the flight, I had to start pushing the throttle rapidly higher to keep hovering
  • At the end of the flight, the quad suddenly descended very rapidly but still maintaining attitude
The battery voltage at the end of the flight, after just over 12 minutes, was 8.8 volts (way too low!).

So the question is, why didn't the NAZA force the quad to land at the 10.4 volts threshold, as it successfully does on my F450 with the same settings?

Any suggestions are welcome!
I flew it again & this time monitored the voltage into the ESC's (it's connected to the Spektrum telemetry module). The results are below. Happily (but not usefully, from a data perspective) this time the NAZA voltage monitoring performed flawlessly! Ah well - better do some more flying (I mean 'research').
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Old Aug 05, 2012, 02:46 PM
Registered User
KevinBuckley70's Avatar
Oxfordshire, UK
Joined Jul 2001
279 Posts
Quote:
Originally Posted by pajonate View Post
Question:
What is the lowest voltage you put for your batteries?

Myself I don't want to go below 11V on 3s. For my BlueSkyRc frame with OP and 8x4.5 Gemfans I get 5 mins and some on 2200mAh, or 4mins and some for 1800mAh. On the Naza I am using heavier batteries (3300, 4000 mAh, because it is 3 ounces heavier).

I see Kevin as extreme, with 12 mins and 8.8V on 2200mAH. I personally would be scared that the battery may catch fire, lol. Mine batteries are quite hot when they get to 11V, I don't even know what can happen if they reach 8.8V.

As Kevin has a problem with Naza not landing on his settings, I have the oposite, mine is lending little bit higher that my settings on the Assistant. I have it to start blinking on 11.2 and land on 10.7. Mine lends on 11.2V. I did battery calibration so it's not that.

Anyhow, What is the lowest voltage you put for your batteries?
I don't know a definitive answer to that but normally I wouldn't consider below 10v (under load) to be OK for 3s. I think the default NAZA setting of 10.4 is OK for me. The 8.8 was extreme! I won't be doing that again anytime soon ... although it did occur to me later that a mid-air explosion as part of the test would be quite a popular video.

My batteries have never felt hot either in these tests today or on the 3200mAh 3s on my F450 which uses the same settings (I do always check how they feel after flying).
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